Thinking about it... - Page 3

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by alegna

Just an aside, many of the antibiotics used to treat meningitis actually cause deafness, so it's quite possible that your bil is deaf from the treatment not the diseass.

I'm glad you brought that up b/c many people are unaware of this. If you Google "antibiotic-induced deafness," tons of links will come up. Here's an example of indiscriminite use of antibiotics in developing countries (from a 1996 BMJ article):

Leading otologists have called for action to counter the growing crisis of hearing loss induced by antibiotics in the developing world. Up to two thirds of cases of deafness are already caused by the indiscriminate use of antibiotics such as streptomycin and gentamicin in many parts of the developing world, and the situation can only get worse, experts warned at a meeting on preventing aminoglycoside ototoxicity in London last week.

This is similar to VPD's which may cause meningitis and encephalitis. An individual may also suffer vaccine-induced meningitis and/or encephalitis.

Sometimes it is the very treatment or preventative measure which induces an illness you want to avoid. Antibiotics for instance were known as the "Wonder Drug" and it was at one time used for pretty much everything.

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by alegna

Just an aside, many of the antibiotics used to treat meningitis actually cause deafness, so it's quite possible that your bil is deaf from the treatment not the diseass.

-Angela

Hmm... interesting

But if he had been innoculated, he (probably) wouldn't have gotten the meningitis, and therefore wouldn't have needed the antibiotics to treat it. So looking at it that way, vaccinating is still something to consider.

I'd like to learn more about the link between antibiotics and deafness. Now I have something new to research--how diseases are treated, and what side effects those treatments can have vs. the dangers of innoculation.

~Nay

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin

But if he had been innoculated, he (probably) wouldn't have gotten the meningitis, and therefore wouldn't have needed the antibiotics to treat it. So looking at it that way, vaccinating is still something to consider.

Not necessarily. Hib, pneumococcal and meningococcal vaccine failure are well documented.

[Missy]

Actually the vax doesn't protect against every strain of meningitis. Plus, there's no guarantee it will be effective against the strain it's meant to target. Even the immunologist at Hopkins who was trying to convince us to vax admitted that. So, it's kind of a toss-up...

[AntoninBeGonin]

Originally Posted by Missy

Actually the vax doesn't protect against every strain of meningitis. Plus, there's no guarantee it will be effective against the strain it's meant to target. Even the immunologist at Hopkins who was trying to convince us to vax admitted that. So, it's kind of a toss-up...

yeah, i agree. wouldn't it be nice if making the decision to vax/not vax/selectively vax were as easy as deciding to bf or not circumcise? :

~Nay

[Megs Mom]

Originally Posted by Becken

Hi mamas! I thought I'd get involved here even though my babe is about a month from making her appearance. I've been doing a lot of research about vaccinations and one of the most compelling articles I've read about delayed and selective vaccinations can be found here.

The author is Dr. Donald Miller, cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery at the University of Washington in Seattle.

In summary, this is what he recommends:
1. No vaccinations until a child is two years old.
2. No vaccines that contain thimerosal (mercury).
3. No live virus vaccines (except for smallpox, should it recur).

These vaccines, to be given one at a time, every six months, beginning at age 2:
1. Pertussis (acellular, not whole cell)
2. Diphtheria
3. Tetanus
4. Polio (the Salk vaccine, cultured in human cells)

The only thing I am adding to this personally is that I won't use a vaccine that uses aborted fetal cells, so the polio vax might be out for me anyway. I have a really great ped who is going to help me with all these decisions, too. He's got 12 unvaxed kids, so he's on my side!

If you haven't seen this page, it's worth knowing what's in the vaccines so you can make a more informed decision on whether or not you want to inject it into your kiddo.

Hope that helps!

So very helpful, thank you so much. I got caught by surprise by the Pediarix vax and consented and I so wish I hadn't. I found this thread by searching for more info. on that one - I can't believe FIVE immunizations in ONE shot - plus two other shots, for seven vaxes in one visit. I let my little guy down today.

[EVC]

I've been doing a lot of research about vaccinations and one of the most compelling articles I've read about delayed and selective vaccinations can be found here.

Very good article--thank for posting

[runes]

Originally Posted by Megs Mom

So very helpful, thank you so much. I got caught by surprise by the Pediarix vax and consented and I so wish I hadn't. I found this thread by searching for more info. on that one - I can't believe FIVE immunizations in ONE shot - plus two other shots, for seven vaxes in one visit. I let my little guy down today.

my personal default for health care decisions is to refuse until i can gather more information.

anyways, doctors should be happy to let you go and do your research...'cuz if you decide to get the vax they can bill for yet another visit.:

i suppose if you start diggin' though, then they won't get as much 'patient compliance' : and that's not very good for their bottom line either.

ugh.

you can do a search in the vax forum for homeopathics that will help your little guy.

[Megs Mom]

Actually, I have a wonderful DO for a ped, who would have been totally fine with the delay - we are already "behind" for this reason. Thank you for the homeopathic suggestion, I will do that.

Here is the update from Dr. Miller that was asked about: http://www.donaldmiller.com/an_updat...ination_sc.htm

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by AntoninBeGonin

yeah, i agree. wouldn't it be nice if making the decision to vax/not vax/selectively vax were as easy as deciding to bf or not circumcise? :

~Nay

Just wanted to say, I your siggy!! Booyeah!!!

[heartmama]

DTaP is not indicated for a child older than seven years of age

I know. I had special permission for ds to have this. At the time (2 years ago) there was no other way to get Pertussis vax. I was glad he could get this.

[Becken]

Originally Posted by Megs Mom

Here is the update from Dr. Miller that was asked about: http://www.donaldmiller.com/an_updat...ination_sc.htm

Thanks for posting that, Megs Mom. Too bad the single doses aren't readily available anymore. I just hate the idea of the super-shots; I won't do them.

It feels like swimming against the tide sometimes, trying to do what we think is right for our kiddos when it flies in the face of the mainstream conventions.

[Telle Bear]

Originally Posted by Becken

Hi mamas! I thought I'd get involved here even though my babe is about a month from making her appearance. I've been doing a lot of research about vaccinations and one of the most compelling articles I've read about delayed and selective vaccinations can be found here.

The author is Dr. Donald Miller, cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery at the University of Washington in Seattle.

In summary, this is what he recommends:
1. No vaccinations until a child is two years old.
2. No vaccines that contain thimerosal (mercury).
3. No live virus vaccines (except for smallpox, should it recur).

These vaccines, to be given one at a time, every six months, beginning at age 2:
1. Pertussis (acellular, not whole cell)
2. Diphtheria
3. Tetanus
4. Polio (the Salk vaccine, cultured in human cells)

The only thing I am adding to this personally is that I won't use a vaccine that uses aborted fetal cells, so the polio vax might be out for me anyway. I have a really great ped who is going to help me with all these decisions, too. He's got 12 unvaxed kids, so he's on my side!

If you haven't seen this page, it's worth knowing what's in the vaccines so you can make a more informed decision on whether or not you want to inject it into your kiddo.

Hope that helps!

I want you to know that you are SOLEY responcible for us waiting to finish vaccinating our son. He has already has some (he is 7 months old) although I did space them out. But he will not get any more until he is two....just from reading this ...I need more time to do research and so my husband and I have decided to wait.....thanks.....tap yourself on the shoulder,

[Becken]

Originally Posted by Telle Bear

I want you to know that you are SOLEY responcible for us waiting to finish vaccinating our son. He has already has some (he is 7 months old) although I did space them out. But he will not get any more until he is two....just from reading this ...I need more time to do research and so my husband and I have decided to wait.....thanks.....tap yourself on the shoulder,

Wowzers!!

Good for you for getting educated!

I honestly wouldn't have thought twice about vaxxing until a friend of mine got pregnant at the same time as me and made me aware that there are actually options out there besides the standard "shoot 'em up" vax schedule.

I'm really happy to have passed on the favor she did for me (and my kids). I hope you do the same for someone else!!

[mangosink0]

I've got a 5 month old and she has had DTaP #1 and Hib #1 at 2.5 months old. She will go next week and I'm still on the fence about what to give her. I'm thinking either another dose of the 2 she's already had or DTaP, Hib and prevnar. Or DTaP and Prevnar and go back in a month for Hib and IPV.

My doc doesn't care if I get IPV or HepB at this point. I may wait until 7 months old to do prevnar #1 because I think if you are 7 months old at the first one you only get a total of 2 doses.
(ETA, I was wrong about the 7months thing, they still recommend 3 doses even if you start at 7 months)
I agree that trace amounts of thimerosol are ok for some including me. I'm more concerned about the other things in vaxs to be honest.

And my DH and I don't see eye to eye on it either. No vaxs at all wouldn't be acceptable to him. So the delayed/selective route is a compromise for us both.

I will do MMR in between 2 and 3.

[HelloKitty]

Originally Posted by mangosink0

I agree that trace amounts of thimerosol are ok for some including me. I'm more concerned about the other things in vaxs to be honest.

And my DH and I don't see eye to eye on it either. No vaxs at all wouldn't be acceptable to him. So the delayed/selective route is a compromise for us both.

Yeah we are in the same boat. I'm so glad this new forum is set up to discuss selective / delayed for this reason.

Our doctor while initially was very against us not vaxing has amazingly come around a great deal and has agreed that many of the vaccines aren't necessary. At this point we are delaying until 2 years old and then will get selective vaxes.

[nubianamy]

My dd had no vax at 2mo, DTaP and Hib at 4mo (she did OK) and again DTaP and Hib at 6mo (she did very well). We decided against polio, Prevnar and Hep B. I think we will not get any more doses of the Hib either. We are BF and I have full faith that will sustain her immune system through these rude assaults. I'm still not sure how I feel about the MMR. (Our peds don't even offer the varicella.)

If I were able to stay home with her, I think we would have not vaxed, but she is in day care full time and we decided this was the right choice for us.

Thanks for having this subforum.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Missy

Actually the vax doesn't protect against every strain of meningitis. Plus, there's no guarantee it will be effective against the strain it's meant to target. Even the immunologist at Hopkins who was trying to convince us to vax admitted that. So, it's kind of a toss-up...

What's more than that is that vaccinating for one strain increases your chances of becoming seriously ill from another.
The number of serotypes present in the meningitis vaccines is forever increasing in an attempt to "catch" the new ones that emerge as a result of vaccination.
It's a neverending cycle.

[DocsNemesis]

What's the Prevnar? I cant remember for some reason...
We had our little one vaxed with Hib and PCV at 6 months, and then DTaP and Hib at 9 months. I dont think I will be doing anymore until she is over 2, maybe even later. I mean, she handled the shots great, but she is at home 95% of the time, she never goes to daycare or is even babysat by anyone else and everyone else is vaxed. Plus, at this point, even if she does get something she should be able to fight it off without much problem.
My oldest was fully vaxed on schedule, but he also recieved DTP's which he was NOT supposed to have (he has epilepsy). It really freaked me out when I found out. Then our 2nd was given a full round of vaccines at 4 months when her dad took her in. He didnt realise I wasnt planning on doing vaccines yet. She also got a vaccine she wasnt supposed to-the flu vaccine (which we never get anyway)-she was allergic to eggs. She did react to it too, luckily it wasnt life threatening. She didnt have a single vaccine after that until she was 2.5, then she did the catch up schedule.

[Plummeting]

PCV is Prevnar.