Honest question: Why no drugs/pain relief? - Page 4

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog

Personally, I'm more freaked out by feeling numb or out of my body than I am by feeling pain. .

Uh, huh!! I've had three c-sections (and an occasional desire to shoot doctors), two with labour. I'd take my 20+ hours of back labour with ds1 over five minutes of the creepy numbness of a spinal - hands down, without thinking twice. I've been cut open while conscious twice - all I could feel was a bit of tugging. Knowing something that drastic is being done to my body and I couldn't even feel it was just creepy...terrifying and freaky and just plain wrong. I've also had pain in my lower back ever since my last section (13 months) and I feel it has something to do with the spinal.

Plus...I can take IV's, blood donation needles, innoculations, etc. - no problem. They don't even begin to bother me. But, someone playing around with a big needle and my spine?? Not my idea of fun - in fact, something that used to be on my "Top 10 List of Things that will Only Happen Over My Dead Body".

Pain's just pain. Numbness sucks. Having people stick needles in my spine sucks even more!

[georgia]

Yes, with my first, I had the whole Pitocin for hours and hours, and then begging to die, had an epidural. I thought it would be a blessed relief, as I had always "heard", except only one side of my body was numb. I found, to my surprise, that I would have much prefered the Pit. pain over the horrendous numbness and disconnectedness to the process.

[FitMama]

The "cascade of interventions" scares me. I'd rather not get that whole process started. I love the whole raw experience of doing it on my own. I love the ecstatic feeling I get between the very worst contractions. It is delicious.

Pain can be a gift. It teaches, it enlightens, it guides, it reminds. There are times for medical pain relief, and there are times for the person in pain to find her own way through it. I believe that many moms are just lacking the information and support that would allow them to decline medical pain relief.

[cheeseRjedi]

I figured that if I made sure not to take any drugs during pregnancy, why dope up right before my baby is about to come out - endangering both of us and endangering the natural process of birth.

[Pandora114]

I have the strong personal belief that sharp objects meeting the spinal column should not occur unless there is a seriously dire life threataning emergency requireing that part of the anatomy to be tampered with.

Routine every day normal childbirth is NOT one of those circumstances.

IV narcotics make people loopy and wierd and totally out of it.

Natural forms of pain management such as water, TENS, Hypnosis = A-OK in my book because they dont tamper with my body in such a way to cause a serious risk, nor do they tamper with the baby's body.

But NO big huge mother flippin needles will be going near MY spine...*shudder*

[DeeEast]

You are all talking about a minimal risk of complications as if it were a huge risk (from the epidural). It is entirely wrong to me that our culture has made pain relief such a "failure" for every mother. There are risks with "natural" delivery and the same with pain relief. If you choose to prescribe to propoganda from either side then you are not giving "informed consent" and believe me, the BS on this thread is not informed consent. Everyone here who keeps espousing against pain relief has an agenda, so get your own info, please, and don't feel like a failure because women like this want to make you feel like one.

[Daisie125]

Yep, all us natural birthers have an agenda.

Speaking of which, I haven't recieved my check this month for bringing in more natural births.

Sticking a needle anywhere near your spine is a huge risk, PERIOD.

[Pandora114]

Originally Posted by DeeEast

You are all talking about a minimal risk of complications as if it were a huge risk (from the epidural). It is entirely wrong to me that our culture has made pain relief such a "failure" for every mother. There are risks with "natural" delivery and the same with pain relief. If you choose to prescribe to propoganda from either side then you are not giving "informed consent" and believe me, the BS on this thread is not informed consent. Everyone here who keeps espousing against pain relief has an agenda, so get your own info, please, and don't feel like a failure because women like this want to make you feel like one.

I dont need a list compiled by an MD listing off the risks vs Benefits of the epidural to realize that a sharp object going near my spine = bad mojo.

My spine + Sharp Object + Non life threataning situation = Aint happening.

I know the nerves in the spine/brain dont regenerate, don't grow back, dont fix themselves in the event of damage.

I dont feel like risking (No matter how small) any preventable damage to those nerves. and Epidural = Preventable damage.

And acctually, it's entirely the opposite IRT "Our Culture"

Our culture epouses, EMBRACES even, any form of pain relief, especially during childbirth.

"Why be a Martyr"
"Not like you'll get a medal for it"
"oh come on, the epidural is the BEST thing ever! You're f'n nuts for not getting it"

And what have you comes from Many MANY more momma's mouths than the "Natural is the way for me YAY Natural!"

Just head on over to any mainstream baby site and post a poll asking if women were happy with their epidurals. You'll see that a resounding %95 of them will holler YES YES!!

Now adays, NCB is NOT the norm, it is NOT part of mainstream culture...Mainstream birth culture = Hospital, Epidural, Episiotomy, litholomy, listening to the good ol Doc...

Trust me, NCB is no longer "mainstream culture"

[Socks!]

I have to admit that I didn't read any other replies. Please forgive me, if I repeat anything.

Why no drugs?
Because drugs would rob you of the most amazing, empowering, yet gentle experience of your life. Plus, and believe me when I say this, the drugs your body naturally produces are wayyyyy better.
Your body will only give you as much as you can handle during childbirth, drugs are simply not needed.

I just wanted to clarify that I am talking about healthy women with healthy babies. Different circumstances might make for different measures.

Had to share
:-)
2JM

[Socks!]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply for you to feel like a failure, or anybody else.
I'm sorry your birth experience wasn't positive and so straining. I do believe that you could have had a very positive experience. With more support, the right environment, the right preperations and the ability to simply trust your body.
My first birth had moments of pure terror and pain, because I couldn't belief in myself anymore.
My second birth was everything I wrote, because I was able to trust my body and my baby.

I'm curious though; don't you think that the pain made the outcome even better?
I know that I was actually disappointed in a way (hard to explain) that my second birth wasn't painfull and that I didn't get that completely exhausted, overwhelming feeling of love, love and more love. I did fall in love with DS2 right away too, just different and not as "strong" (I'm having a hard time describing it).

to you Mama, that you apparently didn't have that amazing birth experience (yet?)

[alegna]

Originally Posted by DeeEast

Everyone here who keeps espousing against pain relief has an agenda, so get your own info, please, and don't feel like a failure because women like this want to make you feel like one.

What is my agenda?

-Angela

[DeeEast]

Originally Posted by 2JungsMama

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply for you to feel like a failure, or anybody else.
I'm sorry your birth experience wasn't positive and so straining. I do believe that you could have had a very positive experience. With more support, the right environment, the right preperations and the ability to simply trust your body.
My first birth had moments of pure terror and pain, because I couldn't belief in myself anymore.
My second birth was everything I wrote, because I was able to trust my body and my baby.

I'm curious though; don't you think that the pain made the outcome even better?
I know that I was actually disappointed in a way (hard to explain) that my second birth wasn't painfull and that I didn't get that completely exhausted, overwhelming feeling of love, love and more love. I did fall in love with DS2 right away too, just different and not as "strong" (I'm having a hard time describing it).

to you Mama, that you apparently didn't have that amazing birth experience (yet?)

I'm sorry that you think that something in me was lacking and is to blame for my painful birth experience. I disagree. And no, I don't think that the pain made the outcome better. Why would it????? The pain was indescribable and unbearable. I love my daughter, but I sure wish I had been able to birth her without that pain.

[Socks!]

I guess I wasn't very clear. I didn't and don't think at all that something in you was lacking. I however still do think that under the right circumstances and with better support you could have had a less painfull birth or at least a birth with a more positive pain. Now I guess that makes me sound like a whacko, maybe you have to experience it to belief it possible.
I don't want you to feel like a failure. I don't think you did anything wrong during your birth or lacked of anything.
You asked why no drugs and I gave you an answer. If you need the ok to get pain relief, you can truly only get that from yourself.
Your kids are already here, so unless you are going to have more, it doesn't matter all that much anymore.
And actually I think you should be very proud of yourself, that despite the horribly painful birth you made it through it and love your daughter none the less.

I wish I could make you understand that I am not trying to make you feel bad in any way. I simply feel that in a way you were cheated out of a good birth experience, because you didn't have what you needed for it (different for everybody, but things like: hypbirth, doula, midwife, good birthing place, supportive people surrounding you, etc.).

[darsmama]

Originally Posted by DeeEast

I'm sorry that you think that something in me was lacking and is to blame for my painful birth experience. I disagree. And no, I don't think that the pain made the outcome better. Why would it????? The pain was indescribable and unbearable. I love my daughter, but I sure wish I had been able to birth her without that pain.

You are NOT to blame, and you are NOT lacking anything.
My first daughter was all natural as well, an at home waterbirth, you can read my birth story if you do a search in August '04, compare that to my very short (still in shock) birth story in July '05. Worst fifteen minutes of my life happened during birth #2.
I have attended in the hospital for friends and family members, and I have to admit - the epidural appeared the way to go over the pitocin induced all natural vaginal birth. That birth scarred me for life.
Every BODY is different, every BIRTH is different, and as I am on my way to looking forwards to baby #3, who knows? I am going to do an UC water birth, but if I am not feeling empowered in my situation at the time, I have no problem packing up and going to the hospital for an epidural/calling a mw friend, whatever. It's my body, my choice, my baby and I know what is best for me. If you feel that pain relief is the BEST decision for you during birth, I say shame on all the women that make you feel bad for it. I support all women's birth choices, even if I do not agree with them and feel entitled to shake my head at their lack of ______ whatever. My downfall as a human.

However, gently reminding you did come on to a board where the majority of women DO make empowering/informed birth choices (Whether it be c/s, hwb, uc, etc) and you asked the question. Obviously, if from personal experiance you won't agree to what is being said - you are not going to be receptive to new ideas/evidence based on YOUR experiances, hence it is not fair for you to state we all have an 'agenda' when..this is who we are

Not meant rudely at all, just my two cents.
Take care and Warm Wishes to you for the MOST EMPOWERING BIRTH EVER NO MATTER WHERE IT IS!!!

Katie

ETA: Both of my daughters were home waterbirths attended by a midwife. I didn't make that clear in the post.

[thefragile7393]

Why do you ask why we choose or want no painkillers and then turn around and bash us for our decisions and choices? Why do you say that we're believing propaganda and we're uninformed when we mention real risks? Why do you say this

post removed by moderator U/A violation.

when the mama was only mentioning how great her birth was? She wasn't bashing you or anyone else, and no one here is shaming or blaming women for previous decisions or saying that painkillers make a woman weak. All she did was give her birth experience and how great it was FOR HER and ONLY HER. How is her mentioning her great birth experience without drugs making people feel bad for their choices? You took her experience to try and make her feel bad for having experienced a great birth! You are the one saying that we are telling people that women are weak, yet no one here has actually said it. SO what is YOUR agenda for coming here??? To come and tell us that women aren't weak for wanting pain meds? We already have/had people telling us this--doctors, nurses, family, friends. We want/wanted something different. And that dosn't make US weak for wanting that.

Informed consent means you know the risks and benefits of each choice. Risks of epidurals are well documented in medical literature but many times are not disclosed to women before or during labor (especially during labor). All that are mentioned are the glorious benefits of the epi and that the risks are minimal. The risks aren't always minimal. We all know that our choices come with benefits and risks. Yes, there is pain in childbirth without drugs! Big surprise! If all the non-invasive ways don't work, or if the labor goes on too long and is exhausting, then a drug of some sort can easily be called for. That is a risk of laboring naturally. Painkillers DO have their place, most here would agree with that. If you accept naroctics or an epi, you need to full know in advance what could possibly happen.

Here's some great "propaganda" for you that you can find easily at your local medical society or hospital library.

British Journal of Anaesthesia 64, No 5, May 1990, pages 537-541 "Serious Non-Fatal Complications Associated with Extradural Block in Obstetrical Practice," D.B. Scott and B.M. Hibbard.

American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 186, Supplement 5 (2002) S81-S93 "Epidural Analgesia Side Effects, Co-Interventions, and Care of Women During Childbirth: A Systematic Review" by L. J. Mayberry

Pediatrics 99, No. 3 (March 1997) Pages 415-419 "Epidural Analgesia, Intrapartum Fever, and Neonatal Sepis Evaluation," by E. Lieberman

American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) Practice Bulletin, Clinical Management Guidelines for Obstetrician-Gynecologists no. 36 Obstetrics and Gynecology 100 no. 1, July 2002 Pages 177-191 "Obstetric Analgesia and Anesthesia," by L.M. Goetzl

These articles are from mainstream medical journals---the very places where people on this site get their "propaganda."

[Galatea]

Wow, DeeEast, you need to calm down. If you come to a natural family living board and ask why people here don't like pain relief during labor, and then expect us to sing the praises of narcotic pain relief, you are cruisin' for a bruisin'. Just b/c we prefer a natural birth and enjoyed our births in no way invalidates your painful births. It is ridiculous to think that we all should see things the same way. You asked people why they preferred NCB and they answered. It doesn't mean that we said that women that did not do it this way were terrible people or losers. If you don't like the answers you got, if they didn't make you feel warm and fuzzy, I am sorry, but look at what you did. You're going against the grain of the board. You might as well go to the Case Against Circumcision forum and ask people to talk about how intact penises are gross. Also, your petulant tone of voice and sarcasm do nothing to help your cause - just a tip.

[orangefoot]

Please tell me why you think that having no pain relief is preferable.

This was your original question. I answered it honestly as you requested and did not imply that anyone else should do what I did. Even if I did how would that be sadistic in your opinion?

Some women may be reading here and not posting and they may not have any references in their family nor among their peers to know that a med free birth is a reality and a possibility for them - in the same way that some people may never have considered breastfeeding as a possibility or that leaving a newborn son intact is also a choice.

To me that is what this forum is for - to share our expereinces and by doing so open each other to new possibilities and choices.

If that doesn't make you feel warm and fuzzy as Galatea says, I too am sorry.

Yikes

[October16Mom]

Just to add my 2 cents, I am not what many would consider a crunchy person and do not have a deep-seated mistrust of the medical community (although I agree that there are a lot of docs out there who are rude and don't care). I believe there is a place for epidurals, especially when people are too tense to allow their labor to progress naturally.

No one I know personally has ever had a major issue with an epidural, but I believe there are some risks. I'm a doc's wife, okay, so I hear about these things all the time. I have not read anyone mention yet that something dh sees commonly. They increase the risk of a baby presenting posterior (because the muscles can be too relaxed). This is why he tries not to give epis before 4-5 cms. They also increase pushing time. He hasn't seen any fatal or serious epidural incidents yet, but these are more minor things that happen more frequently than most people are aware of.

I think women need to have choice in these matters. Most people would agree that there are certain situations in which an epidural is helpful and I can't judge whether or not your case is one of them. Might I add that I come on this board, not because I agree with what everyone says on here, but because I am trying to have positive thoughts about natural childbirth. I need to hear that my body was meant to do this and that I will get through it, and this board (along with support from my doctor and dh) has been a great way to bolster my attitude.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by DeeEast

quote removed by moderator UA Violation.

IF I was to be said to have an agenda, said agenda would be safe and healthy moms and babies. Isn't that we're all after? And fact of the matter is that no drugs IS safer and healthier for both mom and baby. You mention moms dying of natural childbirth. It is true. Women DO die in childbirth (natural or otherwise) BUT I have never heard of a single case where use of an epidural or other pain medications would have saved them. Please enlighten me if such cases exist (I'm quite the research junkie and would feel deficient if such information exists that I'm unaware of)

I am sorry that your unmedicated birth was traumatic I really am.

-Angela

[Pandora114]

umm it's not propaganda.

There is a 1-5 chance that anyone going into the hospital at any given day can and will get a hospital aquired infection, most of which are antibiotic resistant. A woman died from getting such an infection in her epidural site.

Each time you open your skin up in the hospital you are allowing a new way in for these bugs...an unproteced way in, unlike your respiratory and digestive systems which are adapted and created to filter out pathogens, a cut, incision, or needle site is NOT.

you might think it's propaganda, but google "Epidural Deaths" And you'll see TONS of stories from MAINSTREAM news sources...not "fanatics" like us..

I'm not trying to make you feel like a failure. As I said, if you want it get it, it's not my body you're messing with.

You wanted to know why some of us dont want it, I'm telling you my reason.

Well the not-so-personal reasons, I have some deeply rooted personal issues as well..

1: Needle + Spinal column = over my dying body and only if it can save my life

2: Hospital aquired infections are nothing to sneeze at. They are way more common than you think. If one HAD to go to the hospital, make as few entrances for the little buggers as possible..

3: Is an intensely personal reason..