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Honest question: Why no drugs/pain relief? - Page 5

post #81 of 151
Wow... when I posted my answer, I thought the origianl poster had a serious question for us. DeeEast, it looks as though you read everyone's honest answers to your question about WHY we prefer drugless childbirth and then became offended because of your own negative and positive experiences.

Personally, I would never try to convince anyone who wasn't asking me a question that drugless childbirth is best. I believe that for my own body... and I will encourage and advocate it for people who lean towards the same ideas.

By the way... you are right... there are serious risks to giving birth drugless... just like there are risks to eating organic fruit and veggies (you could choke, even though it's the most natural way to eat it plus it's waaay more expensive)... just like there are risks to breastfeeding (you could get thrush or mastitis... and you might not if you don't breastfeed)... just like there are risks to holdning a baby instead of leaving them in a carrier (you could drop them and if you dropped them while in the carrier, they won't get hurt as badly)... just like there are risks to not watching tv (you could have a bad strorm in your area and not get the warning and not be prepared)... the list just goes on and on. You asked why this was what we prefer.


Just to clear something else up... there are many people here who don't judge others for not having a drugless birth. Rather, they would hope for more than an intervention laden birth for others. Both of my births were in the hospital, and I suspect that the homebirthers here when they read that wish for me that I could experience giving birth inside the haven of my own home. I don't take that as them judging me... just as them wishing I could experience the same great things they did at their births (that I could not experience at my hospital births).
post #82 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEast
You are all talking about a minimal risk of complications as if it were a huge risk (from the epidural). It is entirely wrong to me that our culture has made pain relief such a "failure" for every mother. There are risks with "natural" delivery and the same with pain relief. If you choose to prescribe to propoganda from either side then you are not giving "informed consent" and believe me, the BS on this thread is not informed consent. Everyone here who keeps espousing against pain relief has an agenda, so get your own info, please, and don't feel like a failure because women like this want to make you feel like one.
I'm sorry you have such a negative view. However, you ASKED our opinions. We gave them. Everyone on this board has a right to their opinion without you coming back afterwards and slamming us for simply answering your question. This thread started out quite nicely, with a non-flaming tone. Then I read your post today, and all I can think is "Sheesh." If you had your mind all ready all made up, why bother to ask the question in the first place? And just what do you consider "informed consent" if not the facts presented? Just because the risks may be minimal, they still exist.

Personally, I am not against pain relief. What I am against (and I think most people on this board are as well) is the lack of information that women are given to be able to make informed choices. I know that I wasn't told any of the risks when I was offered my epidural. I only knew about the risks from the research I had done BEFORE I ever went into labor. I just believe that every woman should be informed of the risks. Consider this to be an agenda if you like.
post #83 of 151
Thread Starter 

Any misunderstandings....

I want to clarify my viewpoint, if I may. Having given birth to 3 children under 3 different circumstances, I feel that I do have something to offer women who are wondering what childbirth feels like.

I respect women who want to go "drug-free" with their deliveries. The fact that I do not agree, nor understand it, does not detract from the fact that I respect that opinion.

My only problem is the fact that, personally, I feel that women are pressured into a drug-free delivery and made to feel guilty if they ask for pain-relief. That offends me. When a woman is in that much pain then no one has the right to make anyone feel less of a woman for asking for pain relief.

That was my point, and perhaps it was lost, no fault due to others.
post #84 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEast
My only problem is the fact that, personally, I feel that women are pressured into a drug-free delivery and made to feel guilty if they ask for pain-relief. That offends me. When a woman is in that much pain then no one has the right to make anyone feel less of a woman for asking for pain relief.
I do not think there is any good in making women feel guilty for choosing pain relief if they feel that it is needed. I DO feel that it is VERY important for all birthing women to realize that the SAFEST way to give birth is naturally, without drugs of any sort.

-Angela
post #85 of 151
Big Ol' YEAH THAT to alegna
post #86 of 151
one from me too. i don't think you can make someone feel guilty. if someone feels guilty about a choice they made, it is something that they create themselves.
post #87 of 151
Quote:
My only problem is the fact that, personally, I feel that women are pressured into a drug-free delivery and made to feel guilty if they ask for pain-relief. That offends me. When a woman is in that much pain then no one has the right to make anyone feel less of a woman for asking for pain relief.
Honestly...and honestly and truely, I feel it's usually the other way around. I lost count of how many people told me not to feel like a martyr and get drugs, how it was okay and everyone did it, how it's the best thing in the world to get, that you're crazy if you don't want drugs because it's sooo bad, etc etc. Same things happened to so many of my friends, with one friend having her nurses tell her all that stuff while in transition. Thankfully she listened to her body, felt she could handle it, and told the nurses to buzz off.

I'm know the situation you speak of has happened and does happen. It's truely sad. If a woman has something that is making her labor unbearable then it's her choice to if she wishes to use something, she should be supportive....no woman should feel she has to suffer.

So much more often though, I've found it's the other way around. Women aren't supported for wanting a natural birth, undermined in labor and not supported, allowed to change positions, or do anything else that could help. Drugs are offered and that's it. And I'm a big supporter of if women wants a natural birth, then they should be supported, encouraged, and helped to use other methods of coping with the pain first and foremost before taking more drastic steps and not undermined. If nothing works and/or the pain is unbearable, the labor is abnormally long, mom is exhausted, or whatever, then she should feel free to use whatever she likes and be supported for it. Birth, like life, can be unpredictable.

I actually rarely tell my birth story because people feel I'm bragging or that I'm making it up. One woman pretty much called me a liar and said she had an epidural and it didn't work and it was just horrid without it. Okay, I'm sorry to hear that, but why she felt she had to project that onto me instead of saying something supportive is beyond me. People are strange.
post #88 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEast
I respect women who want to go "drug-free" with their deliveries. The fact that I do not agree, nor understand it, does not detract from the fact that I respect that opinion.
I'm not sure what the clarification is all about (another thread perhaps?) but if you don't agree with or understand womyn who labor and birth undrugged, then may I respectfully ask why you seem to think that you know that womyn who do so are doing so out of guilt?

How about because we just simply trust in and have faith in our bodies to birth noramlly and without drugs? How about because we have the strength and fortitude to ultimately go above the sensations our body is experiencing to do what we feel is best for our babies? Or that maybe, just maybe, birth can be pleasureable, empowering, sexual, fabulous, fun, funny, every and any sensation you ever imagined...and that we want to feel it all?

The logic of being offended on the behalf of another woman b/c they feel guilt at asking for pain relief is really very telling. To me it indicates that the norm is to expect to be relieved of normal sensation that we as a culture are shielded from (as a result of medicalized childbirth) and that it is ingrained in us that these experiences are inherently wrong somehow and are deserving of anaesthesia to get through it or around it.

eta: just wanted to say that I didn't know there was another thread when I wrote this and only responded to post # 83 as the thread stands now. hth if my response is confusing.
post #89 of 151
DeeEast,
I understand where you are coming from.

Those that advocate no-drugs often cite it being so much healthier for the baby, and their power to overcome or work through the pain. Those that advocate drugs often can not comprehend why someone would not want drugs, and are bilwildered or even unflexible.

I think it is a shame from both sides, when something so personal as childbirth gets judged by people on one side or the other. If you are in the USA and the majority get pressured and harrassed to take drugs, even when they do not want them, it is a terrible shame. However, it does not dismiss your experience, just because the opposite happened, and you are in the minority.
post #90 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEast
I want to clarify my viewpoint, if I may. Having given birth to 3 children under 3 different circumstances, I feel that I do have something to offer women who are wondering what childbirth feels like.

I respect women who want to go "drug-free" with their deliveries. The fact that I do not agree, nor understand it, does not detract from the fact that I respect that opinion.

My only problem is the fact that, personally, I feel that women are pressured into a drug-free delivery and made to feel guilty if they ask for pain-relief. That offends me. When a woman is in that much pain then no one has the right to make anyone feel less of a woman for asking for pain relief.

That was my point, and perhaps it was lost, no fault due to others.
I get what your saying. Sometimes we even do this to ourselves. I never dreamed I'd end up with a pitocin induction and an epidural. I remember sheepishly asking my midwife about the epidural and being so afraid she'd look down on me. Then I said, "but if I get one my husband will be so disappointed in me!" Well, of course my husband was supportive of whatever I choose and really had no opinion either way. I was projecting, pure and simple.

I really like what Penny Simken says about there being a difference between being in pain and suffering, and that no one should have to suffer.
post #91 of 151
Thread open
post #92 of 151
I have removed posts that were in violation of the MDC User Agreement. As a member of MDC, each of us is expected to post with respect to ensure the comfort of the participants within each forum.

We are each responsible for avoiding:

Quote:
Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.
Please see MDC's Web Statement of Purpose to better understand MDC's and Mothering Magazine's Natural Family Living philosophy.

It is expected that within a forum this large, there will be differences of opinion. That's totally fine. It is not fine, however, to be disrespectful of another poster (or group of posters) for voicing an opinion with which one doesn't agree. We can be passionate without being hurtful.

Please see this Mothering Magazine link for some excellent information about empowering birth choices and further information about birth options

I trust that this conversation can remain on track. Please PM me directly, rather than replying to my post, if you have any questions or concerns about this thread. Thanks
post #93 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEast
There are risks with "natural" delivery and the same with pain relief.
Scientifically speaking that is not true. They are not the same but others are added by pain relief.Totally agenda free.
post #94 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galatea
Just b/c we prefer a natural birth and enjoyed our births in no way invalidates your painful births. It is ridiculous to think that we all should see things the same way.
I didn't enjoy my hospital birth at all. If I had had the choice I would have taken anything to make it stop, honestly. But that doesn't mean I have to minimize the risks of pain relief and talk them down, they stay the same. I advice every woman to avoid anything that creates the need for pain relief( beyong labour itself) which in my opinion is enhanced if not even triggered simply by being in a hospital and the whole circumstances surrounding it .
post #95 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEast
There are risks with "natural" delivery and the same with pain relief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by huggerwocky
Scientifically speaking that is not true. They are not the same but others are added by pain relief.Totally agenda free.
I'm assuming she meant that there are risks with both natural delivery and with pain relief, not that they're the *same* risks. But yeah, important point. Giving birth is risky in itself (as is just about everything in life,) and every intervention you add is in addition to that.
post #96 of 151
Because it's only natural.
post #97 of 151
I wanted to (and did) avoid pain meds b/c everything I've read says that such interventions can have effects which cascade into more interventions, and so on, making a caesarean section more likely. Recovery from a c-section is considerably more difficult and would make it more of a challenge to establish breastfeeding right from the start. That's why I opted out of pain meds. (My body ended up making it easy on me; 5 hours of labor with about 10 minutes of pushing and I had my wonderful, healthy daughter.)
post #98 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeEast
My only problem is the fact that, personally, I feel that women are pressured into a drug-free delivery and made to feel guilty if they ask for pain-relief. That offends me. When a woman is in that much pain then no one has the right to make anyone feel less of a woman for asking for pain relief.
that is so completely contrary to all my experience that I dont even know how to respond. It's quite the opposite from all I've seen/read. Esp in the US, the US is such a big "OH GOD DRUG ME" society that when someone doesnt want drugs they are laughed at...at best.

as I said earlier I did end up with an epi after 12 hours of pitocin induced back labour laying flat on my back. I did NOT want drugs and I was not pleased I took them, esp in light of the fact that it didnt even take. but I was called plenty of bad things for thr 12 hours I resisted it. not to mention people laughing in my face for the 9 months leading up to it, as I never wanted medicated at all.

So obviously as I broke down and attempted medication, I dont disrespect anyone who ALSO broke down and couldnt take the pain. but I also very strongly feel that in most cases, better support and surroundings not to mention NO INDUCTION AND INTERVENTION would prevent the need for medication. since I am UC this time, which def. mean NO MEDS, I'll keep you posted, if I am wrong in my case, I'll let you know.
post #99 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by arlecchina
as I said earlier I did end up with an epi after 12 hours of pitocin induced back labour laying flat on my back. I did NOT want drugs and I was not pleased I took them, esp in light of the fact that it didnt even take.
After getting on my back when I was in labour with ds2, I don't know how anybody can labour in that position and not get pain meds. OMG that hurt!! I laboured for about 8 hours with no problem - 5 minutes on my back, and I was ready to kill someone. I can't imagine labouring like that for hours at a time. (I don't recall it being that pronounced with ds1, but that was 13 years ago, and my memory could be foggy...or the pain may have been lost in the panic over the c-section.)
post #100 of 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
After getting on my back when I was in labour with ds2, I don't know how anybody can labour in that position and not get pain meds. OMG that hurt!! I laboured for about 8 hours with no problem - 5 minutes on my back, and I was ready to kill someone. I can't imagine labouring like that for hours at a time. (I don't recall it being that pronounced with ds1, but that was 13 years ago, and my memory could be foggy...or the pain may have been lost in the panic over the c-section.)
sweetie I agree with you. I got yelled at by staff when I rolled over because I was "compromising the fetal stress machine" grrrr. I didnt know then what I know now or I swear I would have left and had the kid in the car :/
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