Why do you think some SAHM's are so junior high?

[vesta]

Continuing some of the ideas in the "rejected at the playground" thread, I too have noticed that there is sometimes a certain petty feel to the groups of SAHM's in my town at the library story times and playgrounds.

**Disclaimer** I do not think all SAHM's are like this!! I was a SAHM for a year and I met nice moms too sometimes. But I felt this social awkwardness around some moms that I hadn't felt in years. I went from being this confident working woman to being totally freaked out by some of the "mommy situations" I encountered.

I often felt like these women had just landed from mars and no one had told them about social things like: politeness, friendliness, maturity, etc..

Does anyone have any ideas why some women are like this? And how do you handle it--or do you just find other places to hang out? Frankly, it was a relief to go back to my PT job and feel like I had another realm in my life that made a heck of a lot more sense than those cliquey mom situations. But I still do a lot of Mommy things and have to deal with it.

[glh]

I don't know, I've been a sahm this time around for over 2 years. I've found friends at a playgroup and LLL, but not at the playground or other places I would have expected to get to know people. I have to say that some offices can be the same way. I had a few good friends when I was a wohm at a law firm, but jeez, some women there still wouldn't say hi even after I was there for 3 years (no it wasn't just me-they were that way to everyone). It was weird. Is this common everywhere or is it more so in New England? I do find that the 1st question many sahm's ask when you meet them at the park is what neighborhood do you live in. They are always the ones that live in the newer mcmansion neighborhoods and I don't, so right away I see the "look". I also get it when I tell them what my dh does for a living (construction). So maybe a lot of this is a class issue?

If anyone knows please tell me because I am clueless.

[Lucky Charm]

I dont hang out anywhere, except here at MDC.

I cannot, and will not put up with the petty bs.

i must say, that one of my very good friends is a SAHM, who ironically gets slack from other sahm also. we go to breakfast once a week, while our boys are in morning preschool. thats fun, but as far as groups go, no. at my sons preschool, i knew the minute i walked in forget about it.

[Jish]

I am a sahm and have been for nearly five years and I feel disheartened that you feel this way. Unfortunately, I think that we find this sort of attitude in every realm of everyday life from the playground to the workplace. I found this same sort of "feeling" when I was working and children weren't even an issue. I think it is just a part of being human. That being said, I get the strange "mommy vibe" many times too. I often think that since our children are such a reflection of us, we are too quick to compare ourselves to others, and to criticize others (whether openly or in our head) when we feel that others fall short. Heck, I am guilty of this, and have done this to women who have later turned out to be wonderful moms and great friends.

I just hope we all remember to be gentle to one another and that this is not something that is exclusive to the sahm sect.

[tabitha]

i don't know about a class issue. i consider myself a hard working sahm, and have never been cold towards any other mom due to her riches or her work status. sometimes, i don't feel comfortable around other moms i meet, just like before i had a baby, kwim? since becoming a mother, i do try to find mamma friends that do things like i do- i think everyone does this to some extent in all aspects of friend making.

we are really poor. i haven't noticed that more sahms i know are rich. i am part of a "richer" mom's group, some of them are sahms but most of them have jobs from home. if i have ever gotten the "weird vibes" from them it has been because i'm a freak to them (i use those nasty cloth diapers, and have my 8month old hanging off my tit, and am constantly sporting some new baby-carrying device) and i guess i don't blame them.

all i can say is that as much as i desire the company of others, it is soo worth it to me to make sure the company is good. being picky about who you form friendships with is fine. sure, it takes a while longer to make new friends, but when you do they're really good friends. i'm sure there are perfect mamma friends out there for everyone, i would just ignore those weird mammas, whatever their working status, the way i ignore people who gasp at the sight of me breastfeeding.

tabitha

[LiamnEmma]

Well said Beth! I agree that in any situation, there are politics and hierarchy. I believe hierarchy is a sociobiological issue...all animals have it. As soon as I saw the title to this thread I thought, "uh oh, now it's going to hit the fan!" I think lots of people in lots of positions think the same things about lots of people. It's so sad and I wish that people could be happy for one another and rejoice in their good fortunes, help in their bad fortunes.

[teachma]

vesta, I think you're talking about the nature of groups of any sort, not necessarily groups of SAHMs. For all you know, the "petty," cliquey groups you see aren't SAHMs after all; perhaps, they just work part time, or work on the weekends, or at night...some other type of work that makes them available to their children during weekday, daytime hours. Just like you, a WOHM, are able to sometimes be in the library during the day with your child. Have you approached these moms and indicated that you are interested in joining them? How do you know they are shunning you just becuase you WOH? How do they even know you are a WOHM? Sorry to come off as harsh and critical. I do know the senitment you describe. I feel it at my local parks and library, too. But I never assumed it was because they didn't work outside the home and I did. I just assumed it was because I wasn't in their group. That exclusionary type of behavior is very junior high- I agree- but I also think women of all types (not SAHMs more than others) are like this even after they pass the age of 17. It's too bad.

[bloodrayne]

Tabitha, I see you are from Alameda, we live very close to you.

I do think that in this area, it can be a class thing, at least, that is what and friend of mine and I have experienced.

I have lived in quite a few places in my life and never have I seen 'classes' be so pronounced as in the Bay area, not even in LA was it so divided, at least, that is my observation.

I feel that here, you are *generally* either struggling a bit or pretty well off. I don't think that it is like that for everyone, but the people who are in between those two are few and far between, compared to other places. It's just how it is here. Where I am from, it is very different, and by that I mean that almost everyone is at that 'happy medium', the strugglers and the well-off are few and far between.

My friend lives in a more upscale city than I do, and joined a mommy's group there, and branched off to start her own because of the attitudes of the women (most of them SAHMs) in it. They were hoity-toity, to put it nicely.
And my parents know some people who are originally from the Bay area, and when they find out what city we live in, they say, "THAT city??" with this tone that made my mom PANIC and call me to see just what was so wrong about it.

I could go on and on with experiences like this that I've had here, but I won't bore you any further..

I don't think everyone here is like this. I know that I'M not like this, so even if I'm the only one, it's still not everyone. :LOL

But I think in this area, it could definitely be attributed to a class. There's just a big division here and I think it's a status thing.

(and I find it exasperating, because WHO CARES, like who you wanna like)

[sohj]

"America doesn't have a class system"

Yeah, right!

I agree with all the others here who say it is a human failing, not a sahm failing.

You may be right about N CA being really class conscious. My mother was from SF and used to say "If you go south of Daly City, take a packed lunch." I've gotten over that as I'm married to a Valley Dude (that's the San Fernando Valley) who I met in NY. She was really, really snobby but I attributed that to her and her upbringing.

[Starling]

Oh, yeah! I definitely think it's a class thing! I've gotten friendly with a nice group of SAHMs. We all do a little freelance work or something to help pay the bills.

These down-to-earth, friendly mamas are in direct contrast to the "junior high" type mamas I've encountered at the children's museum or the play center. You know, the ones in their neat twin-sets and $80.00 hairdos who stare blankly past you when you say hi. (And don't even try starting a conversation about second-hand stores! )

I think a lot of SAHMs stay home because their husbands make a lot of money. They might be staying home even if they didn't have kids; they don't need to earn a paycheck. These are people I wouldn't come in contact with if we weren't bringing our kids to the same facilities. So, I shouldn't be surprised if we don't really pal around when our kids do bring us into contact with each other.

I've gotten the "I've just come back from a Carribiean cruise and you obviously can't even afford a nice stroller" look from these mamas more times than I can count.

[gurumama]

Can I provide a slightly different perspective?

I get rejected by fellow SAHMs because I AP. You'd think my sling and bfing were the most bizarre things on the planet. I think these might be the majority of the rejecting SAHMs who are so junior high. It's like I'm listening to Depeche Mode and The Cure while they're playing their Debbie Gibson tapes...

I *also* get rejected by some SAHMs because my DH and have a higher income than many of the APing families we know. A lot of the APing families I know are younger than us (we're 33 and 37) or simply make far less than we do.

It's weird, though, because we don't spend conspicuously. We have a nice minivan and an older Saturn, live in a decent house we own (but nothing fancy), but when other SAHMs in this group ask what DH does and I tell them he's a software engineer, I think there's an assumption that we have piles more money and that I'm therefore...what? I don't know.

I don't join in the bitch sessions about not having enough money--because we do. It hasn't always been this way, but it *has* been this way ever since we had kids. I have no idea what it's like to raise kids on a tight budget, so I can't join in. But I certainly never flaunt or talk about our financial abundance.

Any thoughts?

[asherah]

I just think there are a lot of people who automatically reject anyone who seems like "the other.." and don't want to reach out to people who aren't just like them.

One can judge and reject based on perceptions of class, race, parenting philosophies, sahm/wohm.. whatever.

I think its all of the above.

[vesta]

Thinking it over, I do think it's not just a SAHM thing. Ten years ago I worked as a temp to earn some extra cash for my wedding, and I remember that some of the offices I worked in were like a soap opera. The places where the women seemed unhappiest and the most "junior high" were where their jobs were stressful and the bosses didn't treat them with much respect.

So maybe that's why some SAHMs act this way? They get little respect from society for what they do, and the work can be hard, tiring, and sometimes unrewarding.

[mamaya]

I came across this kind of situation at the park just today, but I don't think they were being cliquey... I just think it's because I haven't gotten to know them, and they came to the park together.
Think about if you were to have a party at your house with people from work and people from high school or something. I bet there'd be two very distinct groups, with little intermingling.

It's just so much easier to hang around with people you already know. I think it stems more from shyness and social "laziness" than actual snobbish-ness.

Just my thoughts

[shelbean91]

I think the people who are the most 'junior high' are the ones who feel the need to make themselves feel better by making others feel bad. I think those are the people who are insecure in who they are. It's pretty sad, really.

[Betsy]

How DO you make friends?

I work 4 days a week and find that I have no time for friends unless they have children the same age as mine and the kids bring us together through their friendships. I have sat at the side of the pool during kids swimming lessons and though I've tried to open a little dialogue with the moms next to me, I get short one word answers and a look that says "don't talk to me" I have no idea if these moms are WOHM or SAHM, but I've given up trying to be friendly to moms at my kids activities.

On the other hand, there's a great SAHM down the street who has tried hard to bring the entire neighborhood together. Our neighborhood is a broad spectrum of the socio-economic spectrum. She's organized little picnics in the park with other moms. Its always fun to watch the kids play and get to know each other. But without that one mom who calls everyone together - we go our separate ways.

I'm an introvert, so I know I'm not good at this.

And maybe its just a matter of having enough TIME. Any suggestions?

[tracymom]

On the other hand, there's a great SAHM down the street who has tried hard to bring the entire neighborhood together. Our neighborhood is a broad spectrum of the socio-economic spectrum. She's organized little picnics in the park with other moms. Its always fun to watch the kids play and get to know each other. But without that one mom who calls everyone together - we go our separate ways.

I'm an introvert, so I know I'm not good at this.

I feel the same way. I get very lonely at times. I'm "the boss" at work and I try to be friendly but I can't really "be friends" with my co-workers, IYKWIM.

I've tried also to talk to people at kids' activities and can have some nice friendly conversations, but nothing to where I feel I can ask them over for dinner, you know? So it ends when we leave. Church was a big social thing for us, but we had a falling out there, primarily due to DH's rather naive idealism getting a crashing setdown, and I'm not sure if I ever want to open myself up for that again! Then, too, I feel sometimes that the friendships weren't really "real" since, now that we don't see these people on a weekly basis, nobody calls. (Not that I'm placing all the blame on others - I'm to blame, myself, not knowing how that call will be received, and etc) But I digress.

I'm not "known" as an introvert, but when it really comes down to the punch, I'm afraid to reach out. I've been rejected enough times that I just can't bring myself to do it. We didn't even have a peer birthday party for my son last year because I was so afraid nobody would come. It's one thing for that to happen to me, but him! Eeek. There were other reasons, but that was a major one.

I joined Club Mom and the local chapter, but it never really got going. There were some great moms there but we couldn't get enough people involved to stay organized. I think it's a society thing. Everybody is just "too busy." I tried LLL but when I went back to work FT it became harder and harder to make the monthly meeting. Then when I would go, it was the same three or four of us every time. People would come then disappear forever. Very sad. You couldn't get to know people well enough to make friendships that way.

The answer? I sure don't know. I'm also sure I've wandered way T

[ksmeadowlark]

When I had DS and started just working PT, I was surprised at how hard it was to make "mom" friends. I had already realized this when pg, some of my old girlfriends were no longer interested in hanging out. And when DS was born and my one good AP friend moved away, I was at a loss.

I tried joining Mom's Club and that was a JOKE. I am so sorry I gave them my $20, I would attend some event and come home almost crying bc the other moms (almost all SAHM) acted like I was invisible, and I am not exactly a wallflower. It was so cliquish--I think they all hated me. The first event I went to was a playgroup and I swear, the only reason I didn't get up and leave was bc I was almost embarrased that I would be laughed at. No one talked to me and they were all engrossed in conversations about taking their 6 yr olds to see Britney Spears, where they got the expensive sweaters they had on their dolled-up daughters, etc. I kept trying different activities, but it was always the same.

Luckily I stuck with my LLL group and found friends there, GOOD SAHM and part-time working mom friends. We formed our own playgroup out of that group, and then almost everyone even rolled over into an AP group too, which has just taken off. I love these women, we all relate to each other so well. And DH isn't afraid to hang out with them and their DH's anymore. He was raised very mainstream, so it took him a while to get used to the AP/LLL crowd.

[misfit]

I have the same problem with the women my age (late 20's/early 30's) at work. They are mostly childless-by-choice, or single. So I thought it was because I'm a mom. But then one came back from having a baby, another mom transferred in to the dept. and they're all in the clique, and I'm not. I'm too old to get my feelings hurt when they all go to lunch and don't invite me, but...

I've lived so many places, done so many things, known so many people... I think being exlusionary and judgemental has nothing to do with money or work status or geography. I think it does have a lot to do with whether you try to "fit" or try to think for yourself. If you are at MDC, you probably are at least a little bit independent, a little bit different. And cliques are formed by everyone doing and thinking a little bit (or a lot) the same.

[Piglet68]

Since I've now "inherited" this thread, I just wanted to jump in here and say congratulations for keeping this discussion civil and mature, despite the title, lol.