Depression, PMDD, and Bi-Polar? UPDATED

[Nathan1097]

I have had depression for at least 9 years. Been off and on meds. Right now, I'm on Celexa since Feb. 2005 and they just doubled my dose last week because of being diagnosed with PMDD. I didn't want birth control pills because I've had blood clots in my lungs.

For quite a while now I've wondered if I don't have bi-polar in some form. Mostly I'm fine, but I have had times when I've thought I was completely on top of the world, bopping down the road with music on, singing loudly as if nothing could get better. I tend to "get lost" and revel in that- so nobody know where to find me. I have bought large items on a whim- tv/computer monitor, beds for my kids- all on credit. I had a tummy tuck in December and while that took some planning, going into debt for another 7K has put me over the edge financially it seems. I had thought it was the Starbucks making me act so "wild" - running, dancing, singing, having sex on the first date w/o protection- but when I feel this way its like I can get everything accomplished if I just put it on a list. I've made LOTS of plans to move and get a new place, calling people all day, making lists, digging out papers, applying for (and getting) jobs I don't show up for, or show up for then quit, leaving jobs in the middle of the day and just never showing up again (hiding at the mall). I've gone from place to place to place picking up job applications, applying for public assistance, feeling like I could get it ALL done and MORE- like a big brain rush- if only there were enough hours in the day. Sometimes I get stuff done, but mostly, I end up with a list and nothing done! One day maybe a month ago or a bit more, I felt detached from myself- wandering the neighborhood. Everything seemed bright and more "fresh"- smells smelled "more", and it was like walking into a really neat painting. I wanted to go lay in stranger's gardens. I wandered as if floating along and thought I saw a girl but then she disappeared! I ignored it because it seemed impossible.

Just had to type that all out somewhere.

[ConfusedPrincess]

[COLOR="Magenta"]I can relate to a lot (not all) of the things you described. Though I have experience, I'm not a "doctor"so you'd need to be evaluated before you can know for sure. I really think you should mention it to your doctor and find out for sure.

[lotusbeans]

Some of this does sound A LOT bipolar disorder, but it's really hard to tell. Bipolar disorder is difficult to diagnose and usually people get diagnosed as something else first. A lot of times the big clue is when an AD triggers a manic episode. it's dangerous for someone with bipolar disorder to be on an AD without a mood-stabilizer, so this is definitely something you should bring up with your psychiatrist. (If you don't have one, please get one.)

Have you looked at the criteria for the diagnosis in the DSM-IV? That's a good place to start, because that's actually what the doc will for the most part use to diagnose you. I think there's one of those drug websites that gives you a little quiz too -- don't know how accurate they are. You could also find more info at bipolar.about.com

xo

[Nathan1097]

Hey- thanks for writing back!

First, when I first went on the Celexa (see below) I had already been on zoloft off and on previously, but this was much worse (feb. 2005) and I was immediately put on Celexa and told not to go anywhere by my psych. dr. via the phone. (See below about the vivid visions.)

Second, I have looked up definitions of bi-polar online the last few days but I'm not sure what place you're referring to in your post.

I did have a psych. dr. but since I haven't seen anyone there for a year and a half or so, they said I'd have to be seen as a new patient. I was moved up in my Celexa by my primary doctor just recently and actually it was she who prescribed the original dose because of how my insurance worked at that time- but she talked with my psych. dr. about the whole episode I'd had that day. (Vivid visiions in my head of maiming people everywhere I went. It was quite disturbing. I was pretty detatched from the world.) Now I guess I could see my regular psych. but she is SOOO difficult to see and in fact, I heard she is specializing in children, so I'd have to go to that office and find a NEW doctor and who knows how long the wait would be.

I have wondered for years if I'm not bi-polar. I read the symptoms and it seems like me. Off and on I will wonder with the way I act too and I just brush it aside.

This is what I wrote in an email last night. Keep in mind I was tired as it was quite late (1 a.m.) and I always feel better in the morning but this is the way I feel lately...

I can't sleep again. I feel all geared up I guess.
Agitated. Shaky. Brain doesn't work right. Going too
fast. like nothing will keep my attention and I need
more of it to work. Its the same as what I sort of
described to you yesterday I guess. I just had a
thought that maybe its a reaction to them doubling my
brain drugs. I was remembering that when I first went
on it I felt weird and detached like this. Racing
thoughts and unstable emotions. Damn brain drugs. But
anyway- that maybe means i'm not cuckoo- just chemical
pills doing this to me. The ones you said not to
take?! Phooey! (Phooey at having taken them.) This is
driving me nuts because my brain is on overdrive and
think too much and its all about nothing and
everything and good god I already have a tendancy to
over think everything. lol I couldn't do my judo
correctly this morning. Kept missing "files" on throws
I've done umpteen times before. (As in... what to do
next... oops! I have no idea!) Last one to catch on to
what we were doing that was new. I feel like I gotta
do EVERYthing and NOW and run around screaming and
wander the neighborhood at night... BLECH! I am
feeling mostly A-ttached at the moment, so I think
I'll rather stay inside- thank god!- but ...

Maybe Nemo [the kitten] will come snuggle with me. I just gotta
get some sleep. I'm thinking maybe that's what's been
giving me the vivid dreams, as well, when I finally do
crash. Then I'm up phoning men at 8 a.m. to join me
for coffee... ;-P

I gotta stop this racing thoughts- racing trying to
figure the world out in a moment and writing long
emails that say everything and yet nothing at the same
time.

I feel like nothing will settle my mind. Not something
new on tv, not something old on tv, not a familiar
DVD. Maybe reading a book would.

I know this sounds insane but I am not insane. Just on
brain drugs. I suppose I will have to phone and talk
to someone about this as a side effect/reaction. I am
not sure where that lies metaphysically. I just want
a hug from you and I know that what I REALLY need is
sleep because that's probably half the problem at this
point.

This is at least a comfort to think that maybe its
these drugs and not ME that's making me feel so awful.

HUGS.

[lotusbeans]

Mood Disorder Questionnaire

How Is Bipolar Diagnosed?
The whole Bipolar site at about.com is full of good information and articles.

DSM-IV criteria for Bipolar Disorder
This is basically the list that the docs use for diagnosis, but it's not a hard and fast 100% accurate thing. Basically it's saying that you have to have so many manic episodes featuring certain symptoms and so many depressive episodes featuring certain symptoms. But there are two types of bipolar disorder (1 and II, II is the one that comes with hypomania instead of mania and is usually less severe) and there's cyclothymia too.

Also, like I said, if you have bipolar disorder taking an anti-depressant without also being on a mood-stabilizer can trigger a manic episode, so watch for symptoms to get worse after increasing the dose. A lot of times that's how people end up with the diagnosis -- a treatment for depressions sends them into a manic phase and it's apparent they actually have bipolar disorder.

If you do have bipolar disorder, I think it's really important to be treated by a psychiatrist. There are so many different medications and they carry different risks and some work better for specific symptoms or better or worse on different people. There are medications that can directly affect the symptoms like visions and voices (like seroquel and abilify). It's actually one of those medications that has a really good website about bipolar disorder, but I can't remember the exact link. If I think of it I'll post it.

xoxoxo and good luck.

[Nathan1097]

Well here's an update....

I have spent about two hours playing phone tag with doctors and nurses and receptionists in both my primary care dr's office and my psych. dr's office. Basically, I have an appointment for next week to follow up with my primary care physician. I am being called back by my psych. dr's office about when I can be seen there (Around 5 weeks from now). I did a new patient intake questionaire over the phone for the psych. office. They have changed my dose from 40 to 30 for the time being. To see how I do on that. BUt I told them I am not sure if this is due to the drugs or if I was like this already because of my epsides seeing people and wandering areound "Detached". I guess we're changing the meds and going from here is the plan. Keeping my appointm,ents with both offices. I feel like I'm shunning the closest peopel to me away with all of this. LIke I'm making it all up.

[lauraess]

I am sorry you are going througj all this with what sounds like little serious support. I may be misreading as it is 3 o clock in the morn.
I would easily guess you are bipolar and wonder why it hasnt been your dx unless this is being brought on by the celexa.
Hope you can get the right attention.

[Nathan1097]

Thanks. I had a talk with my boyfriend about this last night. He was very lovely about it. I told him I am exhausted from the emotional see-sawing. He doesn't thinkI should be on the brain drugs at all. Of course, that's partly because of how they are making me feel and partly because he is a christian scientist. In part, he is right- my problems are still here years later and the reactions to the drugs are not helping. But then I think that was really bad when I went on them and I'm afraid of getting like that and being off. Of course, they haven't stopped me from wanting to run away and do crazy stuff thus far. That's the reason I went over to his house last night and we had that lovely talk. Then he phoned me later to see how I was and then we talked on IM after that.

[lotusbeans]

I think that if you are bipolar and haven't been on a mood stabilizer (or atypical antipsychotic like abilify, geodon or seroquel) it's not surprising that the meds haven't been giving you any relief. I know that doesn't make it easier and it's frustrating to be taking pills every day that aren't helping. I've been there and it's so tempting to give up! Being on the wrong medication often makes things worse so I would be careful about dismissing all medictions because you haven't been on the correct medications.

I know how awful this can be. I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this when it can be so hard. But keep trying and don't give up hope.

*HUGS*

[lauraess]

I just wanted to say that if your bf was living with you and you were the mother of his children ( are you?) he might have a different stance on meds then. I really hope you can get some mood stabilizers. I am surprised that no one has rx them for you.

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by lauraess

I just wanted to say that if your bf was living with you and you were the mother of his children ( are you?) he might have a different stance on meds then. I really hope you can get some mood stabilizers. I am surprised that no one has rx them for you.

Not the mother of his children, no. We have separate kids and don't live together. His first wife (the mother of his kids) was manic depressive and he describes her as MUCH worse. I am supposed to be getting an appointment in 5 weeks to see a psych. dr. and I have an appointment next week with my reg. dr. AND another one for my annual OB/GYN check up. For a couple years now, I've wondered if I weren't bi-polar because of the spending sprees, extra-excitability - bouncing down the road, singing at the top of my lungs, etc.- but when I get like that I feel bad or weird or "wrong" so I don't say anything. I read the symptoms and feel like I "want" to be sick and am making it up. Meanwhile, my boyfriend says I am healthy. Maybe he just wants *me* to feel well and see myself that way. -He still is seeing me even though I feel really wacky.

[Nathan1097]

Originally Posted by lotusbeans

I think that if you are bipolar and haven't been on a mood stabilizer (or atypical antipsychotic like abilify, geodon or seroquel) it's not surprising that the meds haven't been giving you any relief. I know that doesn't make it easier and it's frustrating to be taking pills every day that aren't helping. I've been there and it's so tempting to give up! Being on the wrong medication often makes things worse so I would be careful about dismissing all medictions because you haven't been on the correct medications.

I know how awful this can be. I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this when it can be so hard. But keep trying and don't give up hope.

*HUGS*

I went to the hospital this morning to have a cortisol challenge test- or something like that. I've been REALLY tired lately and dunno if its from working out, depression, lack of sleep, meds or what. So they did this test. I hadn't eaten since 8:30 last night and the test took a couple hours. She asked how I felt and I said "Tired". I'm not sure if that because I hadn't eaten though. Maybe it was the meds. They gave me 3 or 4 doses and checked my blood right before each. Its just another thing she's testing me for - I had intestinal infections every year for the past several years- including one in June that I was hospitalized for. Maybe its all related? No idea. Need a nap. zzzzzz......

[Nathan1097]

Went to a party for church choir last night- a picnic. Very nice weather. But I was SOOOOO spazzy. I couldn't stop talking a mile a minute and wanting to run away and bounce all over the place and do crazy stuff. Mostly, my ex-husband got the brunt of it as we don't see each other too often to talk.

Now today I feel completely depressed and am having suicidal thoughts. My mom came in here and told me everything that is wrong with my life and how I'd better figure it out, etc. I think she dumped the whole of the things I cannot fix or do anything about for the last 3 years on me in a matter of 5 minutes- and then she judged me for it. Not to mention, she had to tell me my room was "messy". I'm also exhausted. I go from all the energy in the world to exhausted from one day to the next.

[lotusbeans]

Do you have the number for your local crisis line? They really can be a big help at times like this. They can send someone to stay with you until you're not alone or are safe or they can call an ambulance for you if you need that. They can also make arrangements for you at whichever hospital or clinic you might need to go to ahead of time. And, if nothing else, they can talk to you and listen to you and be a big help.

[Nathan1097]

No idea about a crisis line. I can find the psych. ER's number, but unless you are gonna kill someone or yourself, they don't want much to do with you. Even when Iw as having vivid visions of killing people, I got put on Celexa. The meds, speaking of, are making me worse. The depression is worse, yet this manic stuff (if that's what it is) is nearly worse than being depressed! They keep moving my meds but neither are getting better.

[lotusbeans]

Call them. They can give you the number for a crisis line.

If you have bipolar disorder it would not be any surprise that an SSRI triggered a manic episode.

[mosesface]

nathan1097, while no one here can diagnose you or prescribe any meds, i can completely relate with everything you are saying. i am bipolar (dx 12 years ago) and the symptoms your are describing make total sense to me. i also understand the "wanting to be sick" just so that things make sense and you can pinpoint what's going on.

i think that there are a few things you can do right now while waiting to get into a doctor...
the first is regulating your sleep. do whatever it takes to get plenty of sleep right now. i know that sounds IMPOSSIBLE and it may be. but try. go to bed at the same time, whether you feel like you can sleep or not. get it cool and very dark in your room and lay there.
i often have (even with meds) racing thoughts when i lay down to sleep. they make sleeping completely impossible. to help, i take GABA just before bedtime and most of the time it really, really helps. you can get it at any vitamin or health food store. it's just a supplement.

also, find things that calm you down. take a bath, kinit, sew, listen to quiet music. anything to slow you down. in my experience, the internet, magazines, even television provide way too much stimulation and just make me crazier when i am feeling manic.

i cannot stress the sleep thing enough. manic or depressed, regulating your sleep will help more than anything else.

and only you can know how you feel. your mother, your bf can only guess or try to take your word for it. it doesn't matter if they judge your condition as better or worse than they have seen in others. you are unique and you know that you are just not they way you know you should be.

what you feel is real. you don't have to prove it in order to get help and help yourself.

[wifty]

I just wanted to back up your plan to get treatment.

Everything you said, I could have written. It took me years though of just being on anti-depressants before they put me on geodon. I can't tell you how nice it is to be in control of my moods!!!

I still have problems, but I am not starting jobs then not showing up, or making plans that I never finish. And now, when I am bouncing to music, I know that it is just my personality to do that and not something in my head that is overwhelmed.

Please don't listen to your boyfriend even if he means well. Bipolar is just a fluke in the brain chemistry and you can't make it go away without meds. It might not go along with his religious beliefs, but he will have to find a way to support your choice to get help and to stablize your brain.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!!!

[Nathan1097]

Rebecca, how did you finally get diagnosed? I've had these symptoms for years. I had wondered if I was bipolar a few times before. We'll see what they say. For now, being so up one day and so down the next is really wearing on me.

I went out with my boyfriend tonight to get paper, and ink for a printer he gave me. Then he took me to Wendy's. It was nice having him around. I also took a long nap earlier after I posted here. It was better than keeping thinking about suicide. I did a bunch of dumb things in my dreams, but at least they were only dreams. He tried IMing, emailing and phoning me several times during this time and got worried I guess.

[wifty]

Originally Posted by Nathan1097

Rebecca, how did you finally get diagnosed? I've had these symptoms for years. I had wondered if I was bipolar a few times before. We'll see what they say. For now, being so up one day and so down the next is really wearing on me.

I also took a long nap earlier after I posted here. It was better than keeping thinking about suicide. I did a bunch of dumb things in my dreams, but at least they were only dreams. He tried IMing, emailing and phoning me several times during this time and got worried I guess.

I simply told the psychiatrist basically exactly what has been mentioned here.....and he put me on the geodon. It has been a god-send and has really helped. I still have off days, but my moods are in such better control!!!

I also used to think about suicide alot and about just 'not-being', but the med has helped with that as well.

Please go see someone, tell them what is going on honestly, and see what the meds can do for you. You deserve to have the life that you want that is under control (mostly at least! lol).

with smiles