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Trying to understand... toys at the playground - Page 3

post #41 of 204
I think that if a child snatches a toy from another child, and then an adult steps in and takes the toy back to the first child, this is just the grown-up demonstrating the exact 'snatching' behavour they are trying to discourage, which is really confusing to the kids, especially as they adult often accompanies this snatching with comments along the lines of "we dont snatch!"

I dont think toddlers are really able to figure out this contradictory behavior.

Of course, I expect toddlers to give back snatched toys, and try to create situations where snatching doesnt occur, but I always go about it without any forcing.

In Tel Aviv, I'm part of a group of mothers who AP that made a play-group that meets twice weekly in the park and we never had big snatching issues, since everyone there was on board with GD and not forcing.

If fact, my dd, now 3 1/3 just started going 8 hours/week to a daycare and the teachers are constantly commenting to me on how she is the most amazing "share-er" they have ever seen.

I think a part of the problems so many parents of todlers face in playgrounds is that all of the kids are coming from different parenting styles and philosophies.
post #42 of 204
Sweetbaby3 I think what I'm confused about is the alternative you suggest to the first child saying "I was using that. Please give it back". If you feel that is an unfair burden, then what would be fair?
post #43 of 204
Both times my dd DID ask for her toy(special animal, actually) back. It's just the second time, after she asked and the mom started doing the thing where she was waiting for her son to be ready, she snatched it back after a minute of this.
She's a smart girl. She saw her words were getting her nowhere and she remembered what happened last time.

About different rules. That's what I was trying to bring up earlier. Lots of families have the rule where if the child brings a toy, she has to share with everyone. We don't have that rule. Her special things are hers. I'm sure it bugs some parents but I'm doing what works for my daughter.
post #44 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
So when another child takes my sons toy from him thats fair? Thats right? That my son has to negotiate to get something back thats his and was taken from him? So what happpens when this kid is 16? or 18? Is he going to go through life taking whats not his because he wants it? and what about kids that dont have good "negotiating" skills? are they SOL?
People that go into my garage and take my lawnmower are stealing. They take my hedge clippers and its considered theft if they didnt ask. This is not OK.
But, I think this is more about how you can help YOUR child, assuming your child is the child who lost the toy, not about teaching the other child a lesson. I don't think you need to worry about how the kids at the playground are going to turn out when they are 16 or 18. Or whether they have good negotiating skills or not. The point is teaching your child these skills. Also, people stealing your lawnmower is not the same thing as a 2 year old taking a shovel away from another 2 year old at the playground. Most children who snatch toys at age 2 do not grow up to be lawnmower thieves.
post #45 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartmama
Sweetbaby3 I think what I'm confused about is the alternative you suggest to the first child saying "I was using that. Please give it back". If you feel that is an unfair burden, then what would be fair?
Hmmm. I am very much in favor for "I was using that, please give it back." Because in my head, they arent really asking, they are asserting themselves. But what happens if the snatcher doesnt give it back? at what point to we say that taking something thats not yours isnt the right thing to do?

What I dont like is the waiting and negotiating on the childs whose toy was snatched. I simply disagree that if someone took my sons shovel/pail/toy shark that he should have negotiate anything, as its his toy. I would fight the urge myself to grab the toy back (yup, I am so mature!), but I have been in this situation. I didnt not snatch the toy back. My kid took care of it by grabbing it back Another time, he just picked something else up and played with that (and only when the child walked off with the toy did I tell the mom that its was ours).

Ans while I fundamentally agree with teaching lessons and compassion and all the rest of it, it just seems terribly unfair if another child takes another childs doll. And that she would have negotiate for somethings thats hers.
post #46 of 204
I totally agree with sweetbaby3. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to stand around and wait, and expect my 3yo to wait, for some other kid to give HIS toy back.

I don't allow my kids to take toys that don't belong to them and I expect them to be offered the same respect. They may ask to play with toys that aren't theirs and I always remind them that when the other child wants it back that it's time to find something else to do/play with. There are times when a toy will be sitting next to us and one of the kids will pick it up and play with it. I allow them to play with it as long as it's not causing a problem but if it does then I tell them that it's time to give it back.

Also, how do you handle a family wanting to leave the park and trying to gather up their belongings? What if your child has one of those belongings and is refusing to give it up? Sure, it may not seem like the negotiation process is long for you, but maybe for that other family they are thinking "wtf, I need to GO!" and don't have time to sit there while you try to convince a 3yo to give back THEIR belongings.

I don't think it's fair to teach our children that their needs/wants always come first. If you take something from me without asking I'm certainly not going to take your feelings into account and try to negotiate for it back. I'm not going to sit there for 15 minutes trying to coerse you to return something that rightfully belongs to me. I shouldn't have to leave all of my belongings at home for fear that someone might decide that it's theirs.

Not all kids have good negotiation skills, not all of them have good coping skills. My ds would have a breakdown if your kid took something from him and then refused to give it back. I don't think it's fair for him to sit by bawling while you try to talk your child into giving him HIS toy back. How is that fair to my kid? He did nothing wrong yet he's the one being punished while the other child holds all the cards. He decides when he's ready to give up a toy that doesn't even belong to him. One kid is being taught how to be a bully while the other is taught how to be a victim in that situation.
post #47 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by octobermom
Honestly thats not your decession to make I have and my child has every right to have her special doll (or hatever) at the park and not have another child grab it from her just like I can bring my book or kitting out and expect noones going to take that. I can expect that if MY child brings X and Y as toys that others might want to play with it I can model and encourage sharing and turn taking with MY child. Its totally not my place to insist others especially ones weve never meet to follow the same standards.
Your right, it's not. But, I prefer to teach my children that if we are going to play with other kids, you need to expect the other kids to want to play with your toys. We leave our precious things at home. And, while, I will never force my kids to share, bringing things that they don't mind sharing to begin with sure makes it easier. Especially with toddlers. And, I think it helps parents to understand and expect age-appropriate toddler behavior. One of these behaviors is grabbing toys from other children. Toddlers do it. It's a fact. The only thing I can do is teach my children that they have choices when it happens (no matter which side of it they are on), help them to resolve it, if I have to, and move on.

I also think that it helps parents to understand the behavior is not mean-spirited. The other toddler is not being mean. Just being a toddler.
post #48 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twocoolboys
Most children who snatch toys at age 2 do not grow up to be lawnmower thieves.
I got this mixed up with another thread (I think, as i have re-read this thread 4 times looking for the inappropriate borrowing of lawn tools).
post #49 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by wende
Not all kids have good negotiation skills, not all of them have good coping skills. My ds would have a breakdown if your kid took something from him and then refused to give it back. I don't think it's fair for him to sit by bawling while you try to talk your child into giving him HIS toy back. How is that fair to my kid? He did nothing wrong yet he's the one being punished while the other child holds all the cards. He decides when he's ready to give up a toy that doesn't even belong to him. One kid is being taught how to be a bully while the other is taught how to be a victim in that situation.
This is what I don't understand. Why not teach your child to have better coping skills? I know it's not going to happen over night, but why not do what you can to empower your own child? Not label the other kid a bully and solve the problem with the same behavior that started it. You cannot control the other children on the playground, but you can teach your child how to deal with things that happen there.

And, of course, if a child was playing with a toy of ours and we were leaving, I would ask for it back myself. But, it's about modeling good behavior in this situation. I would not just snatch it from him. I would probably say "I'm sorry, honey, but we have to go and I need to pack the toy up." I just think that some posters are forgetting that we are dealing with children here. Toddlers, specifically. Not convicted felons.
post #50 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
I got this mixed up with another thread (I think, as i have re-read this thread 4 times looking for the inappropriate borrowing of lawn tools).
LOL - I was wondering where this came from.
post #51 of 204
Quote:
Your right, it's not. But, I prefer to teach my children that if we are going to play with other kids, you need to expect the other kids to want to play with your toys.
And again thats fine for YOUR child I to some regards have that same rule but Its not up to me to insist OTHER kids have that same rule. So if MY child was to take something from another I'd expect her to return it and promptly.
post #52 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
So when another child takes my sons toy from him thats fair? Thats right? That my son has to negotiate to get something back thats his and was taken from him? So what happpens when this kid is 16? or 18? Is he going to go through life taking whats not his because he wants it? and what about kids that dont have good "negotiating" skills? are they SOL?
People that go into my garage and take my lawnmower are stealing. They take my hedge clippers and its considered theft if they didnt ask. This is not OK.
No, it is not fair or right to take something that doesn't belong to you. And while it might be fair to snatch a toy back from the offending child, it certainly isn't right, nor is it teaching appropriate skills. If the options are to snatch back or to ask for the toy back, the preferable option is to ask for it back.

I gather from your responses that the issue (for you) is that a child should not have to ask for their toy back because it was theirs to begin with and, well, that's just not fair. The issue is the injustice of it all. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong. This is what I'm getting from your posts.) You say that the only child who should learn a lesson is the snatcher. The reality is that BOTH children ARE learning something, whether you think they should have to or not.

You are right that, in theory, a child shouldn't have to ask for a toy that is rightfully his or hers to begin with. But what happens in theory and what happens in reality are often very different. In reality, sometimes your toy gets snatched away. You can teach your children to have a revenge mentality, to see it as an-eye-for-an-eye, by telling them that it's appropriate to snatch the toy back. Or you can take the high road, overcome your desire for everything to be fair and equal, and encourage your child to ask for the toy back. That's why I said it's not about who's right or wrong, or what's fair or not; it's about getting the toy back in the nicest way possible.
post #53 of 204
Quote:
This is what I don't understand. Why not teach your child to have better coping skills? I know it's not going to happen over night, but why not do what you can to empower your own child?
How is that empowering. Your kids playing with thir OWN toy. Another child comes around and takes it (it happens toddlers are toddlers) so its now up to the victum (your child) to suck it up and wait while the person who took it decides their ready to give back whats rightfull the others anyways???? Thats NOT empowing.
In gereral I'm not going to grab back my DD toy from another I feel its the parents responsiblilty to help get it back though I have stepped in when their wasn't a parent to help out. However if its MY child taking something I weill see to it thats its rightfully returned and quickly. Once its rigtfully returned THEN we can talk about asking about sharing about respecting the others right to their own property.
post #54 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by abac

I gather from your responses that the issue (for you) is that a child should not have to ask for their toy back because it was theirs to begin with and, well, that's just not fair. The issue is the injustice of it all. (Please, correct me if I'm wrong. This is what I'm getting from your posts.) You say that the only child who should learn a lesson is the snatcher. The reality is that BOTH children ARE learning something, whether you think they should have to or not.
You are right, its the "injustice" of it all. I am glad that at least you see where I am coming from.

Mama's, I am so tired and I have to work tonight so I am going to nap while my kids are in school.

Carry on...
post #55 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by octobermom
How is that empowering. Your kids playing with thir OWN toy. Another child comes around and takes it (it happens toddlers are toddlers) so its now up to the victum (your child) to suck it up and wait while the person who took it decides their ready to give back whats rightfull the others anyways???? Thats NOT empowing.
Who says that is the only option? Part of teaching negotiating and problem solving skills is teaching your child that there is more than one solution to each problem. That IS empowering.
post #56 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetbaby3
You are right, its the "injustice" of it all. I am glad that at least you see where I am coming from.

Mama's, I am so tired and I have to work tonight so I am going to nap while my kids are in school.

Carry on...
Sweetbaby3, ahh the joys of online forums. Let's just hope our children never meet on the playground. Or at least if they do, let's hope they can come to an agreement better and faster than we can, or there might be a lot of snatching and waiting going on.
post #57 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twocoolboys
Who says that is the only option? Part of teaching negotiating and problem solving skills is teaching your child that there is more than one solution to each problem. That IS empowering.
Why is what the only option? I'm honestly confused.. (not being snarky)

Deanna
post #58 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by octobermom
How is that empowering. Your kids playing with thir OWN toy. Another child comes around and takes it (it happens toddlers are toddlers) so its now up to the victum (your child) to suck it up and wait while the person who took it decides their ready to give back whats rightfull the others anyways???? Thats NOT empowing.
Patience is a virtue. It really is very empowering to realize that you have control over your emotions and that you alone control how you react to something.

People get along so much better when everyone has an attitude that promotes kindness, understanding, and patience.

I want to add that you can empower your child by not thinking that they need to merely suck it up and wait. That is not the only option. They can be pro-active in asking for their toy back.
post #59 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by octobermom
And again thats fine for YOUR child I to some regards have that same rule but Its not up to me to insist OTHER kids have that same rule. So if MY child was to take something from another I'd expect her to return it and promptly.
Exactly my point. Everyone on the playground is going to have different rules and different ways of reacting in these situations. All we can do as parents is teach OUR kids how to react. Or we can react for them, if that is what we chose. But, even if we are reacting for them, we are still teaching them. I prefer to teach my children to problem solve. I don't worry so much about what other parents are teaching their kids. I do, however, remember that these are toddlers and that they think nothing looks more interesting than another kid's toy, especially if that other kid is playing with it.
post #60 of 204
Quote:
Patience is a virtue. It really is very empowering to realize that you have control over your emotions and that you alone control how you react to something.

People get along so much better when everyone has an attitude that promotes kindness, understanding, and patience.
Its NOT up to YOU (emphaizng not yelling ) to decide how patient MY child needs to be. I teach and will teach my child that people are more important than things. It is NOT okay for her to violently grab back anything or for her to push bite or otherwise be aggressive. But honestly I just don't get this idea that the victum should be the one to be the "stronger one" Their is IMHO a big diffrence controlling emotions and being the victum.

Deanna
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