Public school rant...(long) - Page 3

[~Demeter~]

Originally Posted by aniT

I am sorry things did not work out well. In my experience teachers like this just get worse, but hopefully you will not have the same experience I have had. I still believe she is just trying to cover her butt for not checking the test and is now refusing to back down out of stubbornness. But that is my opinion.

In any case, I would be double checking my child's papers like a hawk. Good luck with the rest of the year.

Thanks I think I am going to need it.. I am really unsure where to go from here. I am in wait and see mode for now. If things don't look up in the next couple weeks I think I will pull him out and stick him elsewhere. I am hoping I won't have the same experience as you and I have had in the past. I agree she seems like she is doing just that.. I am definitely going to enjoy her reaction to me at open house. I intend to be polite but questioning of everything she does in the class.

[2crazykids]

Originally Posted by Mumof3Nic

I am truly not sure how to pursue this.. can I go in and demand she change his grade?? Or maybe rather than demanding her to do things possibly give her alternatives to this practice? I did give her an alternative in the letter I sent in. I said: I can understand taking a point off the whole test but cannot justify marking each word as wrong. What if a student had really horrific handwriting? Would that child get each word wrong on each test? This truly makes no sense to me at all. : I honestly feel like I haven't really gotten anywhere with this. Oh.. and the principal saying to me he would like us to look at it like Kyle did get the higher grade eventhough she won't budge on this.

1. I wouldn't persue this particular grade any further...It seems somewhat of a lost cause here, and besides it's phiolosphy and teaching methods you are questioning (which is good...don't worry).

2. I think what you said before about how sometimes you are just stuck with crappy teachers and you need to make lemonade our of lemons, KWIM? She's only going to have him for the next 10 months and you can look at this as sort of a learning experience. I mean, he certainly can learn how NOT to teach...I guess. He knows you are supportive and in his corner and she won't ruin his life, b/c in the long run she won't matter, etc...Again, in life as an adult we all have to deal with people and sometimes work with people we really don't like, but tolerate.

3. She might be doing this b/c it's the beginning of the year and she needs to put the "smack" down (so to speak) right now so that 20 some odd kids won't be walking all over her...does this make sense? Teachers are always real strict and pissy in the begining of the year...set the tone of authority...

4 . If you want to pursue this further do so by documenting everything, be a parent volunteer in the class, be vocal, be around, BUT BE NICE TO HER...This may be hard but try to get her in your corner, to see you want to work with her...etc. This may be easier said than done...At some point if you see her methods becoming really detrimental, than take further action...You have rights and so does your son, he has the legal right to not share his grades with others, it's a violation of privacy...but we all went through it I guess.

Is this making any sense? Just came back from a party and had 2 beers.:

[~Demeter~]

Originally Posted by 2crazykids

1. I wouldn't persue this particular grade any further...It seems somewhat of a lost cause here, and besides it's phiolosphy and teaching methods you are questioning (which is good...don't worry).

2. I think what you said before about how sometimes you are just stuck with crappy teachers and you need to make lemonade our of lemons, KWIM? She's only going to have him for the next 10 months and you can look at this as sort of a learning experience. I mean, he certainly can learn how NOT to teach...I guess. He knows you are supportive and in his corner and she won't ruin his life, b/c in the long run she won't matter, etc...Again, in life as an adult we all have to deal with people and sometimes work with people we really don't like, but tolerate.

3. She might be doing this b/c it's the beginning of the year and she needs to put the "smack" down (so to speak) right now so that 20 some odd kids won't be walking all over her...does this make sense? Teachers are always real strict and pissy in the begining of the year...set the tone of authority...

4 . If you want to pursue this further do so by documenting everything, be a parent volunteer in the class, be vocal, be around, BUT BE NICE TO HER...This may be hard but try to get her in your corner, to see you want to work with her...etc. This may be easier said than done...At some point if you see her methods becoming really detrimental, than take further action...You have rights and so does your son, he has the legal right to not share his grades with others, it's a violation of privacy...but we all went through it I guess.

Is this making any sense? Just came back from a party and had 2 beers.:

Could you pass one or two my way.. the week I have had I think I need one.

I felt that it was a waste of my time and effort to pursue this any further but then I also feel like I should.. if that makes sense. I feel that at least I have made my voice heard and she knows I am involved in my son's academic life and I won't things slide.

The thing I worry about for him is that he is very sensitive. (all of my kids are.. and show it in different ways) He has a tendency to get really depressed and give up. I would hate for this teacher to have such a detrimental effect on him. I stand by my "wait and see" approach because I do think it is important for him to understand that we can like everybody in our lives and that sometimes we have to just deal with it. I won't let him go it alone though.. and he does know this.

I suppose that is true.. but I am not so sure I agree with that line of reason. He came home the other day and told me that this teacher became so flustered with another student not moving fast enough for her that she tipped the kids desk over (spilling all the contents on the floor) and sent the kid to the hall. Now first let me say if she does anything remotely similar to my son.. there is going to be some big issues. There is no reason to rule a room that way.

I intend to document things as they come.. I am hoping not to experience anything more with her. I intend to be involved with the class as much as I can but she strikes me as the type to not want the younger siblings around. She seems a real all work no play kind of teacher to me.. (is it too early to pass judgement?.. I am really trying not to here) I always go to open house/meet the teacher/whatever you wish to call it so that the teachers can get a feel for me and I for them. Unfortunately she has seen my stubborn side and I hers. I really am a sweet non-confrontational person. It took all I had to go into the principal to speak with him about this and how embarassing for me I was actually shaking the whole time I spoke with him.

I definitely think I want to pursue the grading system she has. I don't think it is anybody elses business what a child's grades are. I need to research it further and intend to. So far my googling has come up with nothing. My husband really got upset over other students grading the tests.. he said that never happened when he was in school but I clearly remember it going on when I was.

Back to my googling.. and thanks again for everything.

[~Demeter~]

Looky looky what I found:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl..._n8965067/pg_1

It is in a different area than I am in.. but it is in an appeals court, does this have any revelance to maybe getting her to stop this practice of peer grading??

ETA: At this point I have not finished with the article.. it is long and full of legalese.. not necessarily my strong point but I am trying to follow it best I can. My husband said something along the lines of this taking precedence so if this was pursued elsewhere they would look at the ruling made here. From what I can gather peer grading is a direct violation of FERPA according to the tenth circuit court of appeals which is located in Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming. I am in Illinois again not sure if I have a leg to stand on here.

ETA (again): Nope I don't as it appears the Supreme Court ruled that peer grading is not a violation of FERPA..

[2crazykids]

I went through my teacher ed program in the late 90's when everyone was saying this is a real bad practice yadda yadda... it seems that the appeal came after 2000...Hmmmm, maybe after BUSH became prez and set back the educational clock 20 years...: But I digress...

I am real sorry this teacher has such a bad temper...My only guess is that she's trying to set the standard for the school year now...Maybe she'll let up, but tipping over a kid's desk sounds abusive, IMO...Document, document, document, even things you hear from your son, time, date, etc. Granted she's retirirng after this year so she probably doesn't give a F***. So sad....

I still think the article is good, even though it was overturned...It shows that indeed this practice can be an "issue" and very controversial. I would wait a little and see how things go, give it a couple of weeks, see how your son is feeling. If he's depressed, etc. then I think you have good cause to switch teachers or schools if at all possible. But you must present a good strong case. Does your child see a therapist at all? Maybe a letter from him/her would help your cause.

[mattemma04]

Watching abuse occur can affect all children.Why wait till she puts her sites on your child? Life is far to short to feel the need to stick with a *bad lemon*.

You disagree with this teacher on so many levels for your child,so it would not be petty to have him moved.1 teacher/one year can affect a child for the rest of his/her life. I would have him switched,and just say the 2 are not a good match.It is not really just about a grade.Best wishes!
ps. I would talk to the parent of the child whose desk was flipped.Poor kid should not be worried about a teacher doing this to him.

<<<He came home the other day and told me that this teacher became so flustered with another student not moving fast enough for her that she tipped the kids desk over (spilling all the contents on the floor) and sent the kid to the hall. Now first let me say if she does anything remotely similar to my son.. there is going to be some big issues. There is no reason to rule a room that way.
>>>

[maya44]

Originally Posted by Mumof3Nic

If I went in with some papers showing the harmful effects of peer assessment I might be better able to make my case.

Why not just go in with the law! Federal law requries privacy for students. Demand it!

[~Demeter~]

Originally Posted by 2crazykids

I went through my teacher ed program in the late 90's when everyone was saying this is a real bad practice yadda yadda... it seems that the appeal came after 2000...Hmmmm, maybe after BUSH became prez and set back the educational clock 20 years...: But I digress...

I am real sorry this teacher has such a bad temper...My only guess is that she's trying to set the standard for the school year now...Maybe she'll let up, but tipping over a kid's desk sounds abusive, IMO...Document, document, document, even things you hear from your son, time, date, etc. Granted she's retirirng after this year so she probably doesn't give a F***. So sad....

I still think the article is good, even though it was overturned...It shows that indeed this practice can be an "issue" and very controversial. I would wait a little and see how things go, give it a couple of weeks, see how your son is feeling. If he's depressed, etc. then I think you have good cause to switch teachers or schools if at all possible. But you must present a good strong case. Does your child see a therapist at all? Maybe a letter from him/her would help your cause.

It makes sense, that is a really bad practice on so many different levels.. unfortunately the first article I read was soo long I spent a couple hours going through it and actually became flustered with the back and forth of it. That is when I googled Falvo vs. Owasso and saw that the Supreme Court overturned that decision.

I am sorry she has a bad temper too. Although upon speaking with my son more in depth (early morning conversations can be the most telling for us) he says he does enjoy being in her class, he likes all the kids in his class and she isn't very pushy about them using cursive (a source of stress for him) and the other teachers in his grade do. They want everything in cursive. His test was in printing but at least here he can work at making that more legible and on his own time work at making cursive legible. So I think I will follow his lead here he doesn't desire to be removed from her class eventhough personality-wise he may get along better with a different teacher. (I am actually quite proud of him for looking past the one problem and deciding to make an effort in her class.)

He doesn't see a therapist so I wouldn't have that in my corner. (On some levels I think taking a child to a therapist can be more damaging than helpful.. I say this because this was my experience as a child.) I will stay in the wait and see mode and follow his lead because I think his feelings are more important than mine.. if he is saying he is happy there and I go over his head it would lead to him feeling like I don't trust his feelings and instincts. Again if she becomes abusive (ie the desk incident) to my son that will be a different story.. I won't stand for that at all.

[~Demeter~]

Originally Posted by maya44

Why not just go in with the law! Federal law requries privacy for students. Demand it!

The Supreme Court ruled that tests and homework are not part of FERPA and ruled that it is legal for peers to grade their papers. : Eventhough I have a read a few studies that show it is actually better for them to grade their own tests and papers. I can understand where the Supreme Court is coming from because the Tenth Circuit ruling left so many loose ends/interpretations and "other possibilities" it would become rather stressful for the academic community. : I fear if I were to demand he be treated differently it may just be worse on him in the long run. He would feel singled out, KWIM?

[~Demeter~]

Originally Posted by mattemma04

Watching abuse occur can affect all children.Why wait till she puts her sites on your child? Life is far to short to feel the need to stick with a *bad lemon*.

You disagree with this teacher on so many levels for your child,so it would not be petty to have him moved.1 teacher/one year can affect a child for the rest of his/her life. I would have him switched,and just say the 2 are not a good match.It is not really just about a grade.Best wishes!
ps. I would talk to the parent of the child whose desk was flipped.Poor kid should not be worried about a teacher doing this to him.

I totally know that one teacher/one year can have an affect on a child for the rest of his life. I went through this with my son's first grade teacher. She was abusive, didn't like young boys and not very understanding of my son's situation (his father had died at the end of Kindergarten and I had a new baby right after he started first grade.. all alot to deal with for someone so young). At this point I am following his lead as stated in a previous post by me upon some questioning this morning he stated he was happy where he was at and had his own reasons for being so. He has been able to look past one issue to see the benefits over all (I think I did something right here ). I am proud of him for looking at things in a somewhat more adult manner maybe even in a more adult manner than myself... I am quite possibly not seeing things in the larger spectrum but focusing on one thing that is bothering me. I am not going to stop questioning things I perceive as wrong and I won't let things get out of hand either. There are limits to everything.. and if she became abusive to my son like that (the desk incident) I would definitely have a BIG problem with her. I think I just may speak with his parent's although people around here strike me as thinking that is normal.. possibly because we all grew up with teachers like that (I know I had at least one hot-head for a teacher) and maybe they think it is normal for teachers to be that way. I definitely think outside the box with parenting and teaching, sometimes it feels like I am the only that truly is involved with my kids on this sort of level.