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Another mother yelled at me at bus stop - Page 4

post #61 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalateaDunkel
I googled the "find the pit bull" page, and I think the point apparently being made is totally fallacious. Many of the breeds on that page are related to each other, the breed status of some is disputed, and it includes other breeds that have also been implicated in fatal incidents. For example the dogs that killed a few years back in San Francisco were Presa Canarios. One thing many owners don't understand is how little it helps their cause when they put the burden of proof on others to justify their own safety level. And the whole "well you don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the different breeds therefore you don't get to have an opinion" thing is particularly obnoxious. God forbid anyone ever gets killed by a dog because they saw that page and came away with the lesson, "well since I don't *know* that that dog is precisely a 'pit bull,' I don't want to look ignorant or rude to the owner by acting too cautious around it." I am strongly in favor of humane treatment of animals, but dogs are not people and breeds are not races - there is no obligation to be "fair" or give the benefit of the doubt in deciding one's attitude toward strange dogs.
I'm confused here.

nak

My point is that all dogs are potentially dangeros. Breed doesnt matter. Children should be taught that, as well as not approaching strange dogs.
post #62 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfamilygal
And I'd call animal control to find out if it is even acceptable to bring a dog like that out to be in close proximity to children. It could be considered threatening.
I'm not sure i get what you mean?
post #63 of 102

Ruby I think

pfamilygal means checking to see if you can actually take the dog out. In some areas just having the dog can be construed as 'threatening"
other areas they are banned completely. So she is suggesting asking animal control because the woman could lose the dog if either is the case.
In some areas certain breeds near a crowd if someone says they feel 'threatened' no matter their training an incident report will be opened up.
Even if they have good training like one of Shannon's dogs they have to investigate.
post #64 of 102
It is people like that woman that are the problem with this breed. We have a pit cross puppy, an english mastiff and a pekingese. All of them love children...but not for a MINUTE will any one of them be alone with a child. DUH, they are dogs........any dog has the potential to bite and a GOOD dog owner is aware of that.

This woman is stupid for taking her dog (that she doesn't even know the temperament of) to a bus stop full of kids. THAT alone is a major problem I'd have.

A pp mentioned a ban on breeding in Ontario......That is not only to protect people, but to protect the dog. The sick sick things they do to those dogs when they are fighters.......wow. Its just insane. As a matter of fact, my puppy came from a mother dog who used to fight.....and was rescued. She was a lucky one apparently because they usually kill them if they lose. Grrr.......
post #65 of 102

hi

sorry she yelled at you. i own a big beautiful pitbull girl, and part of being a responsible dog owner is thinking about other people. while its great to get your dog out for a walk, places where other people are, in your case a bus stop... isnt the best place to be (with any dog) There are people deathly afraid of dogs..I generally keep my dog to myself and my circle of people she knows..She is sometimes skittish of new people, I have yelled at a mother once myself.. to tell her to NOT let her kids run up to my dog..she might jump or bark and scare them and try as i might, she is a powerful dog, if she jumped she might knock an unsuspecting child over (this has yet to happen) But i try to prevent things like that happening. clearly your neighbor wasnt thinking about respecting others. I never bring my pit to the playground,bus stop etc....if i want to take her around people, we go to the dog park where people who like dogs are !
post #66 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by CerridwenLorelei
pfamilygal means checking to see if you can actually take the dog out. In some areas just having the dog can be construed as 'threatening"
other areas they are banned completely. So she is suggesting asking animal control because the woman could lose the dog if either is the case.
In some areas certain breeds near a crowd if someone says they feel 'threatened' no matter their training an incident report will be opened up.
Even if they have good training like one of Shannon's dogs they have to investigate.
Thanks!
post #67 of 102
I think the point with pit bulls is their incredible strength. There was a case here where a pit bull attacked a family member. When the police arrived it had bitten the arm off at the shoulder of the twenty-eight year old daughter who lived at home. Not a small child, not anyone teasing it. The other relatives were horrified & surpriised. Police had to shoot the dog so EMT peronnel could rush the woman to the hospital. The dog was described as a pet, perfectly friendly, & so on. What sticks with me is yes, a chihuahua can bite you & break the skin, like all breeds. Pit bulls can kill other animals or people because they're so powerful. It is scary to be around them, so no, I don't think you were rude.
post #68 of 102
Wow, so many misconceptions about pit bulls on this thread. Pit bulls were originally bred to fight other dogs and larger animals, like bears.

Aggression toward people was specifically bred OUT of pit bull lines. Part of the fighting ritual included that the other dog's owner would bathe the pit bull to ensure there were no noxious substances on its coat. A human referee was present in the pit, and would handle the dogs physically (de-fanging dogs, for instance) during fights.

Dogs who were in the midst of an attack, and often severely wounded, would need to be able to direct their aggression ONLY toward the other dog, not the humans. If a dog couldn't not do this, it was not desirable, was often put to sleep, and was not bred.

So, aggression toward humans from pit bulls is extremely rare, and highly unnatural. I have owned two pit bulls, and both were/are excellent family dogs, dogs I would trust with my children. They have a high pain threshold, meaning that they tolerate being poked and grabbed well, and they have a highly playful nature. Even my ten year old pit bull is very good with my toddler.

It is true that they are extremely strong physically, and an attack from a pit bull is a dangerous one. However, attacks are very much over-reported in the media, attacks by pit bulls are more likely to be picked up than attacks by other breeds, and dogs of other breeds are likely to be mis-named as pit bulls. It is good for ratings.

As with any strong dog, any dog at all really, they require responsible handling by their owners. I also think it is an excellent idea for everyone to have dog knowledge, and to teach our children how to deal with dogs.

The idea that a pit bull has no place at a children's bus stop saddens me. They are highly intelligent, loving, sensitive pets, and my life and my children's lives have been much enriched by our experiences with this breed.
post #69 of 102
BJ, I admire how you handled that situation. You weren't nasty about it either, and hopefully she went home and gave it some thought privately.
post #70 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by bauchtanz
I guess I am in the minority here that I think your comments did come off as rude. I would have said something like: Now kids, we don't pet unfamiliar dogs, do we? (which should be a standard rule, not "not petting THAT" dog, which I think is what she took it as)

Any dog can attack at any time and a parent that belives one breed is more dangerous than another is in for a shock when thier beloved golden retreiver bites someone (my husband was attacked by one of those "gentle, never does any harm" golden retrivers). A friend of mine's daughter has been bit TWICE by "family" dogs.

Well, it is done now, over with, so what are you going to do about it now? Those pesky bus stops are just as political as the PTA. I would nix the small talk and just chalk it up to the two of you don't get along, and move on with life.
That's just my 2cents.
I totally agree with this!

We owned a "pit bull" once (she died as a puppy though). She was about 8 weeks old and we had her in PetSmart and a child was playing with her (keep in mind she was still TINY). The mom was smiling, the kid and our puppy were obviously having a good time and she asked us what kind of dog she was. We told her it was an American Staffordshire Terrier, she asked "A what?" So we replied " a pit bull" . The lady jerked her kid away so fast, and told her other one to "stay away from that dog". "bully' breeds have such a bad rep. As so many people have said, ANY dog can hurt a child. Our puppy couldn't have hurt a fly. It barely had any teeth!

I know pit bulls as my family raised the AKC registered version (champions at that) for years. We will probably never own another though because of the sterotypes surrounding them. DMX and other rappers and common trailer trash have really ruined the breed. We took pride in educating people on the misconceptions surrounding the breed. With all the backyard breeders and the skanks making a quick buck at the dogs' expense, it seems like trying to preserve the breed is a fruitless effort now.

Our dog now is a mastiff mix, she looks very much like a fila brasiliero. Every time we take her out though, some ignorant redneck says "Man that's a great looking pit" There have been times where other dogs have snapped at her, or jumped on her, and she is always labeled the instigator. Even though she is usually very playful (except when she's being snapped at or attacked!) we just try to keep her away from other dogs now. We took her to an ice cream stand one day while I was pregnant. As we were walking to our seats, a family's labrador jumped OUT of THEIR CAR, (where it was sitting with their young children children) and attacked me and our dog. All I could do was tug Macy by her leash and wait for someone to try and pull their "sweet family dog" off of her. I highly doubt anyone would have believed our "pit" (who's not a pit at all) was the innocent one. Luckily there were plenty of witnesses and Macy was leashed, otherwise she could have been banned from there.

Sorry for getting sidetracked! I do think you were right in wanting to keep your children safe. The woman sounds like an idiot anyway so I'd just avoid them.
post #71 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by CerridwenLorelei
pfamilygal means checking to see if you can actually take the dog out. In some areas just having the dog can be construed as 'threatening"
other areas they are banned completely. So she is suggesting asking animal control because the woman could lose the dog if either is the case.
In some areas certain breeds near a crowd if someone says they feel 'threatened' no matter their training an incident report will be opened up.
Even if they have good training like one of Shannon's dogs they have to investigate.
The schools around here have NO DOGS signs, so it's possible that it is also unexceptable/against local ordinances to take dogs to school bus stops.
post #72 of 102
In your post you mention previous aggression by this mother and her children. So naturally your radar went up when she brought the dog out. Whatever the breed I imagine aggressive dogs might appeal to a family with a history of aggressive behavior. (She may have even wanted a pitbull because she thinks they are all aggressive even if that is not accurate!) Your gut said something isn't right. Listen to it.

Apologize if your gut feels it's right, don't if it feels wrong, but I don't have a problem with anything you did.
post #73 of 102
think a lot of people have made a good point that the issue is not the tempermant of the dog in question, but rather the extreme ability of the pitbull breed to do harm. Every dog is (or has the potential to be) a weapon -- the question is whether the weapon is the equivalent of a pea-shooter (like a tea-cup chihuahua) or a nuclear missle (like a pitbull).

I will admit that I wanted a larger, more challenging dog (german shepherd) -- but we ended up get more of a lap-sized dog with a reputation for an easy temperment for a number of reasons: (a) we are not experienced dog-owners and do not have the background to handle a challenging breed, (b) we wanted kids and had jobs, and knew that we would not have, quite frankly, long hours to spend to correct the behavior of a challenging dog, (c) we have worked hard for what we have, and the thought of being sued if our dog hurt someone was not attractive, and by the breed we selected we felt we limited the potential harm that our dog could do, (d) I am not tremendously strong, and I like having a dog that I feel that I can exert some level of physical control over and (e) hopefully limiting the harm our dog could do to someone else.

I will admit, when I look at someone with a pitbull, I always ask myself why? Its like when you talk to people who feel that the government is impinging on their lives by not allowing them to purchase Uzi's or AK-47s. My feeling is why is it necessary?

I am surprised no once has referenced or linked in the excellent reporting in the Chicago Tribune recently with regards to pitbulls -- here it is:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...hi-photo-front
post #74 of 102
Though I do think of this as being a trend of people buying "more dog than they need" like my neighbors with the small backyard and 2 full-time jobs and a border collie. That dog is dying for a job, somewhere to go, something to do and they can't understand why they're starting to have behavior problems with it.
post #75 of 102
Much of what I was thinking has already been stated, but I think you handled the situation fabulously and feel bad for you that you have to deal with this woman on a regular basis from here on out.

IMO I really think a bus stop is an inappropriate place for ALL dogs, and certain dogs have a bad reputation for a good reason. It's not the dogs fault, but some owners don't understand how to handle the inherent nature of a dog, they will use their mouths to protect themselves if any threat is detected. I personally had a wonderful dog who was quite cuddly, had a hyper streak, but would IMO at the time never have hurt a fly. Well not only did she prove me wrong by biting a four year old in my family on the face right in front of me. She had to be put down. I trusted that my dog wasn't going to hurt anyone and I was shown that the trust that we have in our dogs is sometimes too high. I know this is a bit of a rant, but I would never...never ...never let my dd pet a dog that we don't know, or trust, or even have the slightest uncertainty about. She knows this. We have two dogs of our own who we never leave with our dd unattended for the reason that dogs are animals that use their mouths for protection under threatening circumstance. (i know I said this already)

My point here is that you did the right thing in my opinon and the bitchy lady with the dog made a scene not you.
post #76 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtwice
...

Apologize if your gut feels it's right, don't if it feels wrong, but I don't have a problem with anything you did.
"Making nice" doesn't necessarily mean apologizing -- I don't think OP has anything to apologize for (with possible exception of the 'oh, grow up' comment, but that is pretty trivial). Explaining why she cautioned her kids in a way that does not single out the breed (b/c it should not be a breed-specific caution, imo) could reduce the tension in a non-confrontational way.

For heaven's sake, this is two neighbors meeting at a bus stop with their kids. Are we really such an adversarial society that there is a "right" and "wrong" in this type of encounter? Who cares whether the neighbor was out of line - the goal is a) to prevent any injuries now and in the future, and b) to be a part of a close-knit, loving community that extends beyond just the four walls of your home.
post #77 of 102
Good for you for saying what you did. You're not on the planet to make noxious people feel nice, you're here to protect your children regardless if the risk seems absolutely minimal. No one else will. I don't think anything you said was out of line. In a vacuum where you can rewind and dissect your words, sure they may seem harsh after the fact, but you did what you did in the heat of the moment - I would have been even harsher.

FWIW, I personally don't care how *nice* and gentle a dog owner claims her/his dog is (rabidly anthropomorphizing in the process). So is every other dog that ultimately ends up going ape**** and taking chunks out of people. Dog owners always look so surprised when Fluffy attacks. Well...duh. They're dogs. Let's cut through the emotions and call it like it is. Drives me BANANAS when people let them go off leash in public places like beaches. STOP thinking your dog has the reasoning skills of an adult human. They DON'T. They're INSTINCTUAL. They're hierarchial PACK animals.

I'm a dog person, and we owned huge dogs in my homecountry for security - dobermen, shepherds, etc. Gentle as lambs to us, but more than once had gutted cats end up on our lawns or bitten robbers. We bought these breeds with purpose - they're way better for security purposes than a chihuahua. Anyone wandering around with a pit or a rottie who tries to convince you that they're no different than any other dog is selectively blind or really defensive. Ontario was absoutely correct in doing what it did. There have been so many maulings here in my province that I'm disgusted that other fighting breeds weren't banned. Sure, a gun is only as dangerous as the owner but hey...Canada made carrying weapons illegal because there are too many buttheads that don't know how to handle them.

So given the history of the breed, you were absolutely correct in doing what you did.
post #78 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainCoastMama
. STOP thinking your dog has the reasoning skills of an adult human. They DON'T. They're INSTINCTUAL. They're hierarchial PACK animals.
:

you said it better than I...
post #79 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNB
For heaven's sake, this is two neighbors meeting at a bus stop with their kids. Are we really such an adversarial society that there is a "right" and "wrong" in this type of encounter? Who cares whether the neighbor was out of line - the goal is a) to prevent any injuries now and in the future, and b) to be a part of a close-knit, loving community that extends beyond just the four walls of your home.
I really, really appreciate that point. Thanks.
post #80 of 102
Thread Starter 
Well....thought you would all be interested in a follow-up. On the bus her son told my son that he was going to teach his dog to bite black people She also has had the dog in the front yard off of the leash (with no fence) when we go to the bus stop the last few times.

Given her sons verbal "threat", I did give Animal Control a call and spoke to a very nice owner of a pit bull who provided me with much information about the breed. She indicated that they are not fully mature until about 16 months so it is difficult to predict their future behavior based on past behavior until they are more mature and reveal their adult personality. She also indicated that for pit bulls (and several other breeds) bites are often triggered by motion than aggression...they tend to grab things that are moving at their eye level to stop them and that is why they often have such a difficult time with groups of children (who are likely to be running around at their eye level) Like many other dogs they might grab at a child with their teeth, but their sheer strength makes the encounter more dangerous for the child (and usually fatal for the dog who ends up being put down) She emphasized that owners of stronger breeds of dogs need to know what situations are good for their individual pets and she doubts that the bus stop is the right place for any large dog. I didn't provide her with any information on this owner or dog since it hasn't actually done anything wrong.

I think I am simply going to move bus stops....the dog is still pretty small so I will wait a few weeks because I don't want to create a neighborhood war or anything, but I do think that she bought the dog to be threatening and it worked...I am afraid of this dog in HER hands. This bus stop is 5 houses in one direction and the other is only 8....it doesn't seem far to walk to avoid this hostility and given the fact that I am pregnant and have a three year old and a six year it seems the extra bit of walking is a small price to pay for avoiding this stress.

I have decided not to try to smooth it over, but to be polite and whatnot on the bus stop. I realize she thinks it was rude of me to say something and I guess I think it was rude to bring a large untrained dog to the bus stop. I agree to disagree, ykwim?

Anyway, thanks for all of the thoughts everyone. It is important to be careful with our dogs and our children and everyone has provided some really nice different perspectives on this issue.

BJ
Barney & Ben
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