Another mother yelled at me at bus stop - Page 5

[BelgianSheepDog]

Yuck. Sounds like the dog and the kid are being raised in a very unhealthy environment there.

I don't blame you at all for being worried about the dog. All talk of "breedism" aside, what really matters is the mentality and abilities of the person training the dog (or not training it but taking it out all over the neighborhood anyhow.) If she's actually planning to encourage the dog to be aggressive, yikes.

[TudoBem]

Originally Posted by wildmonkeys

She also has had the dog in the front yard off of the leash (with no fence) when we go to the bus stop the last few times.

I believe in most places this is against the law. You can call animal control to report this.
From my experiences with my undesirable neighbors, animal control has advised me to call them as often as possible to create a log of documentation. Therefore should anything serious happen there is a whole series of documentation on the irresponsibility of the owner and problems with the dog.
Also, you can call anonymously if you prefer. In our particular case we have found it better to be up front that we are watching our neighbors and not tolerating misbehavior.

[wende]

I'm glad you've made the decision to switch bus stops. I know first hand how quickly a normally docile dog can react. I've been bitten on numerous occasions. Only once was it my fault. I was bitten by a pit bull when I tried to pet her puppies (the owner said it was ok but obviously mom didn't agree). I was bitten by a neighborhood dog because I was walking down the street. I was with a group of friends and none of us were antaganizing the dog but it came after us. I froze as my friends ran and it bit me. I was bitten by an Australian Shephard once when I was 10. I was standing in the middle of a large group of people right before 4th of July and they were letting off fireworks. The dog got spooked and jumped the fence and decided that I must be the one to blame and bit me. 20 years later I still have a very noticable bitemark/scar on my abdomen. I've watched a pitbull do unspeakable things to a kitten who crossed it's path. My best friend growing up was bit in the face by a german shephard who she was "friends" with. My moms old chow chow nipped my then infant daughter in the face for crying. I have had nightmares about being attacked by dogs. I know that the dogs aren't to blame in most of these situations. They are doing what comes natural to them, but I am just now overcoming my fear of largeish dogs. I will probably never overcome my fear of pitbulls simply because they are more naturally unpredictable in their behavior than some other breeds. I wouldn't allow my kids near them either, especially one who has not been well socialized to strangers and children, who are also unpredictable.

[CerridwenLorelei]

omg

that woman needs to be reported somehow. I just don't know how you can without it being obvious yk?

SHE is what makes it bad for responsible pit and other dog owners. And making it KNOWN that are intending to train it to bite/attack a certain race??

It seems like being out in an unfenced yard would violate a leash law.....

Maybe the dog will get lucky and the dogcatcher/spca will see it unleashed/unfenced and pick it up before this woman can do it and the human race horrible harm...

UGH UGH UGH.....

[CerridwenLorelei]

omg

oops double post

[rowansmomma]

Originally Posted by wildmonkeys

Well....thought you would all be interested in a follow-up. On the bus her son told my son that he was going to teach his dog to bite black people She also has had the dog in the front yard off of the leash (with no fence) when we go to the bus stop the last few times.

Given her sons verbal "threat", I did give Animal Control a call and spoke to a very nice owner of a pit bull who provided me with much information about the breed. She indicated that they are not fully mature until about 16 months so it is difficult to predict their future behavior based on past behavior until they are more mature and reveal their adult personality. She also indicated that for pit bulls (and several other breeds) bites are often triggered by motion than aggression...they tend to grab things that are moving at their eye level to stop them and that is why they often have such a difficult time with groups of children (who are likely to be running around at their eye level) Like many other dogs they might grab at a child with their teeth, but their sheer strength makes the encounter more dangerous for the child (and usually fatal for the dog who ends up being put down) She emphasized that owners of stronger breeds of dogs need to know what situations are good for their individual pets and she doubts that the bus stop is the right place for any large dog. I didn't provide her with any information on this owner or dog since it hasn't actually done anything wrong.

I think I am simply going to move bus stops....the dog is still pretty small so I will wait a few weeks because I don't want to create a neighborhood war or anything, but I do think that she bought the dog to be threatening and it worked...I am afraid of this dog in HER hands. This bus stop is 5 houses in one direction and the other is only 8....it doesn't seem far to walk to avoid this hostility and given the fact that I am pregnant and have a three year old and a six year it seems the extra bit of walking is a small price to pay for avoiding this stress.

I have decided not to try to smooth it over, but to be polite and whatnot on the bus stop. I realize she thinks it was rude of me to say something and I guess I think it was rude to bring a large untrained dog to the bus stop. I agree to disagree, ykwim?

Anyway, thanks for all of the thoughts everyone. It is important to be careful with our dogs and our children and everyone has provided some really nice different perspectives on this issue.

BJ
Barney & Ben

: And a whole other range of profane smilies. I just am shocked first that her son said that.....and secondly that well......okay, the whole situation.

She is clearly an ignorant ignorant woman and so obviously TRASH!!! I'm glad you are moving bus stops.......she seems like the type to harass you to a breaking point. Grrrr.....this makes me mad!

[rowansmomma]

I'd like to supply an interesting link too, if I may.

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/

[RainCoastMama]

From Rowansmomma's link:

Breeds Involved (in fatal attacks)

Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).


Hmm. Pit Bulls are almost double that of rotties, and 5% points HIGHER than the next type of animal. Stats don't lie. You were absolutely correct in doing what you did.

[CerridwenLorelei]

actually I can tell you

" Stats don't lie"

From statistics class several times that they can be manipulated ....


too bad they left out the pom attacks..

[hawkfeather]

i wouldn't have let my kids pet a pit bull i do not know.. and I would not have *avoided* my need to tell them this to spare some rude ladies feelings..

Could you call the school and discuss this?
sorry i see there are tons of responses that i didn't not read..maybe i am repeating!

[hawkfeather]

if it were me i would also be calling animal control- to touch base with what her son said.. and the fact that this is an unleashed animal in the yard.

[CerridwenLorelei]

many of us still say call animal control

this woman is dangerous and will take this dog and make it a deadly weapon.
do you live where there are animal police? with full power like detroit has ? or arizona?

can you call anon or some other neighbor call anon to have animal control drive by?

[janellesmommy]

Too bad that scary woman is mad at you, but of course you had to protect your kids.

Are your kids black? If they are, that boy's comment should be taken as a death threat, and the police, not animal control, should be involved.

*HUGS* So sorry you are going through this.

[rowansmomma]

Originally Posted by RainCoastMama

From Rowansmomma's link:

Breeds Involved (in fatal attacks)

Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).


Hmm. Pit Bulls are almost double that of rotties, and 5% points HIGHER than the next type of animal. Stats don't lie. You were absolutely correct in doing what you did.

But did you also read that they took into account the numbers of pits that are kept as pets? Pits are more popular than many of these other breeds that had lower percentages of "attacks". You must read the entire article.

Again, I'll say that I dont think any dog should be at the bus stop........and I wouldn't discriminate. Pit or poodle..........and btw, poodles are more likely to bite than pits. I know this from being a vet tech for 8 years.

[rowansmomma]

Originally Posted by janellesmommy

Too bad that scary woman is mad at you, but of course you had to protect your kids.

Are your kids black? If they are, that boy's comment should be taken as a death threat, and the police, not animal control, should be involved.

*HUGS* So sorry you are going through this.

:

[wildmonkeys]

My kids aren't black, but many of our neighbors are so the comment seems very threatening to me. The family lives on the same block as a middle school with a very diverse population - there are many african american and other children of color who will need to walk past the house each day.

I found out from Animal Control that it is legal to have a dog off of the leash without a fence on your own property in my county --- this is true regardless of breed. I am not calling animal control because the dog hasn't actually DONE anything wrong.

As for the differences in breeds...I have given this sooo much thought over the past week. Rowansmommy mentioned that from her perspective working with dogs, poodles are more likely to bite than pit bulls...I guess the question is whether it matters as much if a poodle bites you??? Maybe the issue with pit bulls and other strong breeds is that they might be equally as likely to bite as a cocker spaniel or some other small high strung dog, but that they do so much more damage. All of the dogs mentioned in that article on fatalities were large...though some of the MOST popular large breeds (retrievers, labs, setters, etc) didn't make the list because my guess is that they actually are LESS LIKELY to bite. Not that I am saying they won't ever bite in any situation, but there is a chance that some breeds have "earned" their reputations.

Anyway, I will continue to not take my golden retriever to the bus stop and I agree with many of you that I really don't think it is a good place for any dog, but truthfully I wouldn't be afraid to see a poodle or other small dog there : I don't want my kids to get bite or end-up with stitches, but I don't think those dogs have the ability to kill or SEVERLY injure my children like this woman's dog does.

Thanks for all of the feedback --- I have never started a thread on MDC that so many people were interested in

BJ
Barney & Ben

[Mimistar34]

Ditto RubyV, it's up to you whether you want your kids petting ANY dog, let alone a Pit.

I do think I would explain it to her later.

[CerridwenLorelei]

I think maybe the poodles they referred to in the article

were the standard ? When I worked at the groomers I had one female that should have been muzzled when we worked on her.
I always tried to get the other bather to take her because she ALWAYS tried to bite and she had pretty big jaws and I was sure one day would be it in the arm department.

[rowansmomma]

Originally Posted by wildmonkeys

My kids aren't black, but many of our neighbors are so the comment seems very threatening to me. The family lives on the same block as a middle school with a very diverse population - there are many african american and other children of color who will need to walk past the house each day.

I found out from Animal Control that it is legal to have a dog off of the leash without a fence on your own property in my county --- this is true regardless of breed. I am not calling animal control because the dog hasn't actually DONE anything wrong.

As for the differences in breeds...I have given this sooo much thought over the past week. Rowansmommy mentioned that from her perspective working with dogs, poodles are more likely to bite than pit bulls...I guess the question is whether it matters as much if a poodle bites you??? Maybe the issue with pit bulls and other strong breeds is that they might be equally as likely to bite as a cocker spaniel or some other small high strung dog, but that they do so much more damage. All of the dogs mentioned in that article on fatalities were large...though some of the MOST popular large breeds (retrievers, labs, setters, etc) didn't make the list because my guess is that they actually are LESS LIKELY to bite. Not that I am saying they won't ever bite in any situation, but there is a chance that some breeds have "earned" their reputations.

Anyway, I will continue to not take my golden retriever to the bus stop and I agree with many of you that I really don't think it is a good place for any dog, but truthfully I wouldn't be afraid to see a poodle or other small dog there : I don't want my kids to get bite or end-up with stitches, but I don't think those dogs have the ability to kill or SEVERLY injure my children like this woman's dog does.

Thanks for all of the feedback --- I have never started a thread on MDC that so many people were interested in

BJ
Barney & Ben

Well, you are absolutely right that size matters!! Heck yeah, if you get bit by a chihuahua, its not going to be a major catastrophe.....but if a big dog bites you, you could end up in a serious situation. And of course the strength of the dog is taken into consideration too. My point was that usually smaller breeds are more likely to bite, however when a large breed bites they are more likely to do serious damage.

Regardless of all of this information, questionable dogs do not belong at a bus stop with children. I dont care how friendly the neighbor's lab is. He is still a dog. Sure, my peke would be easily controlled if she got fussy but a big dog isn't.

I think better safe than sorry in this situation. I'd have handled it the same way I'm sure.

[ThreeJane]

Sorta off-topic, but my really good buddy has an American Bulldog, which is squattier and heavier than your standard pit bull.

Anyway, I was visiting him in April with my 3 year old and one year old. Moira (the dog) kept barking at the baby every time she was on the floor, so I made sure she wasn't near the dog when I put her down. She didn't make any rushes at the baby, but the barking (accompanied by a puzzled look) made me very, very nervous.

My buddy got really offended, "I don't think she'll bite the baby!" and other comments. I finally hauled off and told him, "Dude, I don't CARE if I'm hurting your feelings, she's a bulldog and if she bites Sarah, it'll be the LAST thing she does!" He got really huffy but made no more comments.

He apparently thought that I was being "paranoid" about his dog "maybe" biting my daughter. I wasn't about to take the chance of a 40 pound bulldog up against an 18 pound baby.

This is a dog that when she makes a mistake and you swat her, she completely ignores it. He's even admitted that when she gets into something she shouldn't (say, trash or a sock she's chewing on), he has slapped her hard enough to make his hand sting for a half hour and she completely ignores him.

He's resorted to twisting her lip to get her attention. : So even he knew that if Moira decided to take a chunk out of Sarah, we'd have to club her over the head with a tire iron to get her to let go. :

So I think you did the right thing. I've had dogs all my life and they are unpredictable. Even Labs, which I own now. They're dogs, they're not people, and you have to get over yourself if people are worried they might hurt their kids...because they might!