A New User Agreement - Page 2

[wende]

Originally Posted by sjkmaurice

* There are two numbers dedicated to no advertising without paying MDC first, but nothing said about racism or spanking which were two hot UA topics. (Thanks Fullofgrace for the reference!)

* The ISP thing I also think is unfair. I know several mothers who have access through the public library or school or a friend's house and now they can't participate because they don't or can't pay for internet at home? This does sound classist.

* I think the mention of banning someone with no reason is tacky. Of course there should be a reason and if someone is banned, they should have the right to know that reason. I agree that the recourse addition is good.

Dittoing this also.

My main issues are with the ISP email address as I DO have access to one but I have never figured out how to use it. I've called my ISP twice to figure it out and I can't so I'm using Hotmail. I've had the same Hotmail account for 7 years. It's the only email address that I use consistently and it would tick me off to have to once again try to figure out how to set up my ISP email address so that I can continue to be a member here. Then, am I stuck checking that email address for subscribed threads?

The banning someone w/o good cause is ludicris. I know that I've disagree'd with a mod's decision and I've openly asked a question about mod behavior because it was an important thing for me to know. I don't like to think that I could get banned for those honest questions but it's even worse that I could be banned for NO reason whatsoever. I think that, as much as I love this place, I'd ban myself if that becomes part of the UA and I think that others will agree. Old members will leave and new members will never bother applying.

[Irishmommy]

Can we have something in there where if you don't post in X time (a month, a year, something consistent), that your membership will be deleted. This will clean up the member list and also free up unused usernames for people.

[Kathryn]

Why is there no mention of not advocating spanking, non-religious circumcision, CIO, or racism like we've all been asking?

[Ruthla]

ITA with Irishmommy about deleting usernames that haven't been used in a year or two (I don't think a month is reasonable- life can get busy!) And maybe have senior members exempt from that rule.

Please clarify about the ISP based email addy- would this be for all NEW members, or all members? I haven't the foggiest idea how to access my ISP-based email address, if there even is more than one for the 4 computers in my house. Would I need to sign up with my Dad's email? Would there be an alternative such as "ISP based email or web-based email and a credit card number just for verification"?

It looks like the policies for dealing with "hot threads" are changing. Instead of removing threads for review, threads will get closed with the possibility of being re-opened, and if a thread is permenantly locked it will stay on the board for 24 hours before it's removed. I think this is better than the current method of "Why was that thread removed? What did I miss?"

[starlein26]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

Can we have something in there where if you don't post in X time (a month, a year, something consistent), that your membership will be deleted. This will clean up the member list and also free up unused usernames for people.

I agree!

[celestialdreamer]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

Why is there no mention of not advocating spanking, non-religious circumcision, CIO, or racism like we've all been asking?

I am curious about this too, I am a little dissappointed that this was not addressed at all. Also, I agree that requiring an ISP email may really be a problem, as I would not be able to be a member then, because my husband already uses the only ISP email address we were provided for free from our internet provider. I did not realize that deleting a post was such a big no-no. I just did that yesterday, because I could not think of how to repost it eloquently and I needed to get off the computer right then :

[boongirl]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

Why is there no mention of not advocating spanking, non-religious circumcision, CIO, or racism like we've all been asking?

I am going to guess that it is because there was no unanimous agreement? Just guessing. But, as I have stated before I think that rule #1 covers racism. As for not advocating spanking and the others, aren't those covered in the appropriate forums? Maybe these items need to be clarified.

I think the UA looks good and the kitchen table idea is a good one. I, too, have reservations about the idea of deleting membership for no good reason. Why would you even need to do that? There would have to be a reason, wouldn't there? Would you be deleting members randomly? I think not. So why have that in there? Seems confusing.

I also have reservations about the requirement to have an ISP. I did not understand that at first but now I agree with the other posters that a lot of mamas will lose their membership if that becomes a rule.

And, there needs to be clarification about rule #6. I think this is the one that people are getting confused about, thinking that mods are going to be lurking on other forums, trying to find posts the demean MDC or a MDC member. People are afraid that they cannot post freely on other forums without fear of getting banned here.

I also think that the rule about us not being able to delete our posts is an odd one. Why would we be able to edit them but not delete them? What about double posting? What about a post that is confusing and causing issues? Why would I not be able to delete it and repost a clarification?

The rule about MDC owning posts needs to be clarified as to how that is legal.

Edit: frompost#49

Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara

I feel this should be checked with a lawyer, because on the one hand, the posts are declared the property of Mothering, yet they are the views of the authors, not Mothering or anyone connected with MDC. Therefore there is a conflict of purpose here.

If they are the views of the author, then inherently they are the property of the author, sort of like intellectual copyright. Therefore the author should have the right to delete/change/amend their views at any point.

I visited 8 parenting boards this afternoon, looking at their user agreements. 6 had specific language stating that posts become the property of the site. 2 said nothing. So, there is precident here but as to legality, well there are some awfully smart (or smart sounding) mamas at MDC. For their sake, and to prevent future hassles, this rule should be clarified as to legality or changed.

[LotusBirthMama]

If the ISP rule is going to apply to ALL members (old and new)...then a lot of people (myself included) will lose out in a big way. MDC is my lifeline at times, and while I am not the most prolific poster (partly due to my lack of in-home computer access), I feel like I have things to offer at times. And Lord knows I am the parent I am today due in a large part to this community. To lose access to that...its heartbreaking to think about.
:

[simonee]

Who gets to decide what's a "disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner"?

I have for example seen many posts and terms here that could easily pass as such in terms of racism and classism (e.g. "welfare queens" and "white trash") but that went uncensored even after other members pointed them out or a disscussion followed, while other terms which I would consider mere internet abbreviations would be removed or edited -- sometimes even depending on who wrote the post!

I would also like basic elements of the mothering philosophy such as no spanking, no esthetic circ, no advocating of mindless consumerism, to be described in the main part of the UA, in order to avoid issues I remember from the past such as members who were banned from GD for advocating spanking could still do so in N&CE.

I further agree with pp's who brought up the inherent classism of prohibiting non-ISP based email addys -- this requirement is furthermore rather old-fashioned as many people change their ISP quite often and using a "steady" email addy for message boards is often just a strategy to avoid problems with board admins not being able to contact you because you forgot to update your profile somewhere.

And, yeah, what is "no good reason"? I know it's happened here, but I would certainly love to see it explained so we know when we can expect to be disasppeared


ETA I also really don't undrestand why a mod can delete a post of mine that THEY deem inappropriate, while I don't have the right to delete one that I MYSELF deem inappropriate. It reeks of a very feudal restriction of rights.

[littleaugustbaby]

How will the kitchen table members be decided -- will it only be the members with the highest posts? Can people apply? Is there a limit to how many times someone can be on the committee? How often are the members rotated out?

Why can't people delete their posts if they choose?

[Kathryn]

Originally Posted by boongirl

As for not advocating spanking and the others, aren't those covered in the appropriate forums?

I've never been to the circ forum but GD and family bed both have forum guidelines stating that cio and spanking are no-nos here.

The whole point was that we wanted an across the board rule for non-advocation. It should never be ok to advocate to hit a child on mothering.com, even if you're not in the GD forum. Same with the others.

[sincitymama]

-kitchen table sounds cool

-would like to see a rule across the whole board, not just GD, that advocating spanking/corporal punishment is not allowed at this site, period.

-the isp e-mail is not a new rule. I remember reading that when I signed up a couple years ago.

-really really like hte suggestion to put a guideline in place for deleting unused memberships. Something involving number of posts and time since signing up. I'm thinking that someone who signs up, posts twice, and never comes back could be deleted sooner (6 months?) than someone with a really high post count, who has shown they do participate here and maybe just can't get here for whatever reason for a while. They would likely not want to have to start all over because htey had a crazy semester or were fleeing abuse or something. So maybe a year or 2 for previously frequent posters.

[kittywitty]

I like all the suggestions here. But the ISP thing worries me, too. I do not have an ISP. I use my WLAN or the internet at the library. I randomly get internet turned on, but we move so much it always changes. So if this is required, I will have to leave Mothering, as well as many other members (especially when you can't afford service, like me).

And I would think 2 years for membership to be revoked. I was off here for a long time (can't remember how long) last year for many reasons in my life, and it would have been a drag to see myself deleted.

And can you not delete anything you post, or just not ALL of what you post? Sometimes when I am NAK I write things horribly and only realize it later when I reread it without my leech on me.

[dallaschildren]

1. Posting derogatory comments about MDC on other (public) boards should be prohibited if you are a member here.
2. Posting on other (public) boards with the sole intent of attacking a member who you have a beef with here and naming the MDC site in said postings, should be prohibited.
3. Stealing images taken from the MDC board and posting them elsewhere should be prohibited.

The above could be integrated into item 6 of the user agreement.

Thanks Cynthia.

DC

Originally Posted by mamajama

I think it's more logical for the rules of MDC to be restricted to MDC. How would your proposal be enforced?

I too thought it would be far fetched for our admin to be policing other boards. I was hesitant in bringing it up. But I have seen enough examples lately that I think it warrants a mention. Enforcement would depend on if someone reports it. Punishment would be determined by MDC admin if it can be proven.

DC

Originally Posted by mamajama

I am strongly opposed to this idea. The internet is public. We should all be allowed to say what we want where we want according to the rules of the particular boards we frequent. MDC is open to the public. If it was a private board with a privacy policy, this rule would make sense. Proof is impossible to come by. Someone may be posting somewhere under the name mamajama and it may not be me yk? Spying is creepy.

That's why whoever reports it, would need to have proof. Classic case as an extreme example....remember the gal who belonged to the white supremicist group and who was a long time member here? I don't think it's my place to get into the details. Would the person's actions (who reported it), be considered spying and creepy?

DC

Originally Posted by Pynki

As has been stated by TPTB numerous times. MDC can not be everything to everybody. Asking TPTB to police the online activities of members on other spaces is either always OK, or NEVER ok. There is no middle ground. Do YOU want something you rant about in a blog taken out of context and given as the reason you are banned or the "no reason at all clause"?

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I agree. I think it's perfectly acceptable to ask that someone not link to a blog criticizing MDC in their MDC signature (which I believe is actually already policy).

Originally Posted by Pynki

And I'm cool with that AM, but to say that ANYTHING I post on ANY internet venue about MDC (if I'm in a tizzy about something) subjects my membership for banning well. I'm not down with that. I need to vent about things that happen here sometimes just like I vent about my husband or my IL's here.

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I agree

Oh come on now. Don't get yourselves into such a tizzy over my suggestion. Or read into it. I wasn't talking about blogs (which you can password protect). I wasn't talking about private off shoot boards. Let's let the people in charge determine if my suggestion warrants merit. And FTR, this isn't a PUBLIC board. It's private. Membership is approved. And can be denied. Any member can read what is posted here. Not every person is allowed membership. This is funny. And so predictable.

DC

Originally Posted by Ruthla

MDC as a whole is a public board, but some forums are "members only"- ie restricted to members who have at least 50 posts and at least 60 days of membership. TAO is one of them, so THIS particular thread is "protected." GD, CAC, etc are NOT members-only, and anybody can read.

I wasn't talking specifically about viewing Mothering content. When you have to sign up to become a member, that is private. Privately held, publicly viewed. Google, dogpile, yahoo etc. make it next to impossible to keep any chat board restricted. Which brings up another question. I'll add it to my original post.

DC

Originally Posted by mshollyk

not really. if you add a "no index" tag to the board code, it will keep spiders away

I believe you can only keep crawlers away if the post is written in HTML.

DC

Originally Posted by Pynki

I'm not CURRENTLY in a tizzy with MDC, but I have been at other times and publically blogged about my displeasure. Just like, I'm not CURRENTLY in a tizzy with my DH, but I have in the past posted about my displeasure with him here.

And why would that matter, who would care and furthermore how is this applicable to what I was suggesting? You are totally going overboard here. I'm not talking about for example, PMS'ing pout session blogged or my husband is a lazy jerk post or my cat puked on my new shoes post. I seriously doubt that the admin here would even begin to entertain the thought of censoring or policing people in that regard nor would I. I believe the thought process behind my suggestion is beneficial to every member here. It doesn't have to be written as I wrote it obviously. There have been problems in the past. Some pretty serious.

[sunshinestarr]

Originally Posted by HelloKitty

I don't use my ISP's e-mail account for a bunch of reasons, so I'm not digging the ISP requirement either.

:
nak

[LionTigerBear]

I concur with what is being said about ISP-email addresses-- they shouldn't be required. FWIW I have an ISP address but I never use it, I use my Yahoo account instead.

[mamajama]

Originally Posted by dallaschildren

1. Posting derogatory comments about MDC on other (public) boards should be prohibited if you are a member here.
2. Posting on other (public) boards with the sole intent of attacking a member who you have a beef with here and naming the MDC site in said postings, should be prohibited.

The above could be integrated into item 6 of the user agreement.

Thanks Cynthia.

DC

I think it's more logical for the rules of MDC to be restricted to MDC. How would your proposal be enforced?

[RootBeerFloat]

I would like to see a sitewide ban of promotion of spanking/corporal punishment, CIO, RIC added to the UA. Also an eschewing of any type of discrimination, per the discussions of race, class (should include homosexism, sexism, disability, etc) above.

I don't like the ISP email rule, either. I don't even think I have one.

[dallaschildren]

*

[mamajama]

Originally Posted by dallaschildren

I too thought it would be far fetched for our admin to be policing other boards. I was hesitant in bringing it up. But I have seen enough examples lately that I think it warrants a mention. Enforcement would depend on if someone reports it. Punishment would be determined by MDC admin if it can be proven.

DC

I am strongly opposed to this idea. The internet is public. We should all be allowed to say what we want where we want according to the rules of the particular boards we frequent. MDC is open to the public. If it was a private board with a privacy policy, this rule would make sense. Proof is impossible to come by. Someone may be posting somewhere under the name mamajama and it may not be me yk? Spying is creepy.