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Anyone want to discuss Warren Jeffs? - Page 3

post #41 of 66
So we should just call him a person who has a habit of engaging in coital relationships with underaged girls?
post #42 of 66
oh, wow...I thought that rule applied to the posters HERE I had no Idea that applied to people in the news, too.

hunh...In that case, I will have to revise my thoughts on this issue, before I post them...

good to know!
post #43 of 66
Quote:
 

Edited by lotusbeans - 3/16/14 at 9:04am
post #44 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougarmilk
So we should just call him a person who has a habit of engaging in coital relationships with underaged girls?
If he is convicted, and/or if you're talking about having followed the case in the media and you want to give your measured opinion about the evidence, "pedophile" is accurate.

Hope that helps. I'm not defending him or his actions, obviously. I'm just gently reminding people to keep the conversation within the UA.
post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusbeans
Even in the Masai culture, or does it depend? I don't agree with it (all the aspects of their family lives) and think their lives are awful anyway, but I met women and children who were happy and fathers/husbands who were proud and capable.


I can't judge the man for having lots of kids (not as father anyway, as a responsible citizen of an over-populated planet is another issue altogether ), neither can I condemn his polygamy perse (not my cuppa, but whatever cooks your noodle, right?), but this man created his own little dictatorship right in the middle of a country that purports to protect civil rights for those who cannot defend themselves. We cannot claim to be a safe haven for the downtrodden of the world AND allow such going ons in our nation at the same time.

hunh...in the end it wasn't so hard to avoid calling that s@$#%#^^o^$%#@$b any "names" after all.
post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusbeans
Even in the Masai culture, or does it depend? I don't agree with it (all the aspects of their family lives) and think their lives are awful anyway, but I met women and children who were happy and fathers/husbands who were proud and capable.
Yes, but only if your definition of good parent doesn't involve attachment parenting on the part of the father, as well as the mother. Mine does.
post #47 of 66

....


Edited by lotusbeans - 3/16/14 at 9:10am
post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cougarmilk
Mr. Duggar supports his family by parading them in the media like some freak show.

The polygamists in Nevada support their families by sponging off the welfare system.

They both suck off public money. The one does so by panhandling, the other abusing social services.
While Duggar getting money for doing those shows is true, it is legal. They are private corporations willingly choosing to pay this family for this footage. They are private citizens who signed a contract with a corporation for their services. It isn't sucking off public money, it is private money. If I'm wrong, someone please explain to me how TLC or whoever it is that pays for the filming is public money.

Not getting legally married on purpose so the state will pay for 100 babies by 10 wives is fraud. Or what they do alot of times (if the girl is old enought, that is) is legally marry a wife and then when they go to marry the next they get a legal divorce from the last and legally marry the next and so on keeping on divorcing to marry the new one. The women then pretend that the babies' daddies aren't around. They are talking out of both sides of their mouths. They are married, but then they pretend they aren't married. Pretend they don't get child support. All that. That is public money.

--------------next issue

So now, what am I missing, we can't say anything about older men who sleep with underage girls? We aren't allowed to call them criminals or child molesters?
post #49 of 66
I think we're not supposed to call them child molesters til they're convicted, and we can't use deragotory terms no matter what
post #50 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitnbugsmom
I think we're not supposed to call them child molesters til they're convicted, and we can't use deragotory terms no matter what
Hm, Thanks. I get it, I guess.

I just clicked your myspace link, damn girl you are country (not meant in any bad way I just don't know anyone IRL who is country like that : like real live cowboy hats and everything)
post #51 of 66
post #52 of 66
I think Jeffs and his crew are wrong because of the abuse of families that went on, along with the educational and welfare fraud, etc.

I just wanted to point a few things out to chew on in this discussion. In a number of states, it is perfectly legal for girls to marry, with parental permission, at ages younger than 18. In some states it's as young as 14. (The same, of course, is true for boys).

Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with polygamy. I know a perfectly nice polygamist family. They live in AZ but aren't Mormons. Actually, they're Heathens, like I am. It's a man, 2 wives (one closer in age to him, one somewhat younger but she was an adult when they met and married), and 3 children, 2 of the elder wife and 1 of the younger (the younger child is 9 or 10, the elder are 18 and 23 or so). The younger wife and elder daughter are good friends, everyone gets along. The family run a business and keep goats and chickens on their rural property, the only one employed outside is the son. The kids all are/were public schooled (in a VERY small town).

It would blow my mind that anyone would consider anything about this family inherently abusive.
post #53 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravin
..
It would blow my mind that anyone would consider anything about this family inherently abusive.
What about the throwing-the-teen-boys-into-the-desert part?
post #54 of 66

....


Edited by lotusbeans - 3/16/14 at 9:10am
post #55 of 66
Ergo the "abuse of families" objection I have to Warren Jeffs' organization. The family I cited as an example of polygamy that there's nothing wrong with haven't thrown anyone out in the desert.
post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravin
Ergo the "abuse of families" objection I have to Warren Jeffs' organization. The family I cited as an example of polygamy that there's nothing wrong with haven't thrown anyone out in the desert.
Sorry, you started a new paragraph and I thought you were referring back to the Jeffs again.
post #57 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mara
Hm, Thanks. I get it, I guess.

I just clicked your myspace link, damn girl you are country (not meant in any bad way I just don't know anyone IRL who is country like that : like real live cowboy hats and everything)
that's me Though most people flip over the military backgrounds and the military icons and videos more than the fact the video and playlist are country artists I was in PR for a bull rider and did volunteer work for a rodeo company for a long time so its just part of me...
post #58 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravin
I think Jeffs and his crew are wrong because of the abuse of families that went on, along with the educational and welfare fraud, etc.

I just wanted to point a few things out to chew on in this discussion. In a number of states, it is perfectly legal for girls to marry, with parental permission, at ages younger than 18. In some states it's as young as 14. (The same, of course, is true for boys).

Also, I don't think there is anything wrong with polygamy. I know a perfectly nice polygamist family. They live in AZ but aren't Mormons. Actually, they're Heathens, like I am. It's a man, 2 wives (one closer in age to him, one somewhat younger but she was an adult when they met and married), and 3 children, 2 of the elder wife and 1 of the younger (the younger child is 9 or 10, the elder are 18 and 23 or so). The younger wife and elder daughter are good friends, everyone gets along. The family run a business and keep goats and chickens on their rural property, the only one employed outside is the son. The kids all are/were public schooled (in a VERY small town).

It would blow my mind that anyone would consider anything about this family inherently abusive.
I don't think anyone here ever said that all polygamist families are abusive. I don't believe that at all and I don't think there is anything wrong with polygamy between consenting adults. I think we are talking about Warren Jeffs and his clan. There are many abuses, as you acknowlege with the welfare fraud and abuse. Many of the girls are forced into the marraiges, we know this because there have been many who have escaped and then shared their stories. I'm also sure many of the girls don't feel forced since they have been raised from birth that this is what will be expected of them, so when word comes down the wire that sally, age 13, is now to go live with uncle Joe, age 45, and is to be his wife she feels that she is doing what god has told her to do through her prophet. So no, no one here has said that all polygamy is wrong. We are talking about the Jeffs situation. The family you know has nothing to do with Jeffs and is example that this really has nothing to do with polygamy per se.
post #59 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by EFmom
I'm not in favor of polygamy. I find it repellant. I think it is inheritantly too subject to abuse. That it would be attractive to any woman is completely beyond my comprehension, I'll readily admit.
It was this quote that got me a bit riled. I admit I was reading quickly and skimming a bit.

Also, the local press here has lambasted the very idea of polygamy because it is associated with the FLDS church and Warren Jeffs. I've seen polygamy equated with the abuses that have gone on in that community, and it's not necessarily so.
post #60 of 66
I am happy that Jeffs was finally caught. I think he's a criminal. I feel sorry for all of the people, especially children, who were exposed to his "truths".

Although I do believe that consenting adults can do whatever they want, I wish there was more polyandry to complement the polygamy. I am uncomfortable with polygamy as it is usually practiced. I don't understand it and I think that it tends to reflect the patriarchy where women are not viewed as full citizens. I am sure that there are exceptions, but if there were more cases of women getting lots of men, I probably would have a very different attitude about it.

I like having one DH, but I could see the advantage for some people to have more than one spouse- especially if they were kind of lazy or something.
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