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peer grading.. thoughts?  

post #1 of 34
9/1/06 at 12:47am
Thread Starter 
This is a spinoff from another thread. How do you other mama's feel about peer grading? For instance your DC takes a test and the teacher tells the children to pass it to the left for another student to grade. Do you think this is a fair practice or a potentially harmful one?
post #2 of 34
9/1/06 at 12:49am
I think it's fine in some settings an inappropriate in others.

Tests - ABSOLUTELY NO!!!!!!

Homework or in-class work for minimal points - it's ok. My dh (a teacher) does this and has all the kids put away all writing utensils and passes out red pens. It's pretty rare that this is done, but he double checks it anyways when it is.
post #3 of 34
9/1/06 at 12:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophmama
I think it's fine in some settings an inappropriate in others.

Tests - ABSOLUTELY NO!!!!!!

Homework or in-class work for minimal points - it's ok. My dh (a teacher) does this and has all the kids put away all writing utensils and passes out red pens. It's pretty rare that this is done, but he double checks it anyways when it is.
I agree with you on this for the most part, homework and in class work, but am going through this with my DS#1 and his teacher. His spelling test was inaccurately grading by another student and the teacher is using penmanship as an excuse. From what I have read this is a direct violation of FERPA , I argued that he spelled these words correctly but still had them marked wrong and she won't budge on her stance to correct the error to his grade.
post #4 of 34
9/1/06 at 12:56am
What I have always been taught as a teacher is that it is fine for student's to review each other's work, even educational, if there is a very clear guideline. But, having them score each other's tests is not only lazy teaching but it is also demeaning for the low performing children.

It is both helpful and educational for students to help each other review work. They can do this, for example, with writing where that is part of the process. When you think you are completely done and you have completed every step and you are ready to publish, then find a peer to review your writing, according to a predetermined criteria. Often, there is a form for the reviewer to fill out to help the author in editing.

I don't see how this would be a violation of FERPA as that pertains to school records, not individual test scores. There is absolutely no way for a teacher to keep student's scores on tests and assignments completely private unless every assignment ended in a one-on-one interview. School records, on the other hand, are kept locked up in filing cabinets for a reason: they are private. Test scores apply to school records but are not the same as school records.

And, I believe I stated this in the other post, you need to take your case above the teacher. Keep going to the next level until you get the resolution you desire. Penmanship and spelling should not be related. I would give 2 scores on that test: one for penmanship and another for spelling. They are two completely different skills.

This, in my opinion, is a very lazy teacher. Combining skills together for grading and then having students score the tests? Lazy.
post #5 of 34
9/1/06 at 1:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boongirl
What I have always been taught as a teacher is that it is fine for student's to review each other's work, even educational, if there is a very clear guideline. But, having them score each other's tests is not only lazy teaching but it is also demeaning for the low performing children.

It is both helpful and educational for students to help each other review work. They can do this, for example, with writing where that is part of the process. When you think you are completely done and you have completed every step and you are ready to publish, then find a peer to review your writing, according to a predetermined criteria. Often, there is a form for the reviewer to fill out to help the author in editing.
This is something I remember from junior high school. I agree this can be helpful to a student's abilities. Then again this doesn't show the students grade only a bit of writing.

Test scoring though I do not agree with and like you have stated is lazy teaching, demeaning and also leads to inaccurately grading tests.
post #6 of 34
9/1/06 at 1:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumof3Nic
I agree with you on this for the most part, homework and in class work, but am going through this with my DS#1 and his teacher. His spelling test was inaccurately grading by another student and the teacher is using penmanship as an excuse. From what I have read this is a direct violation of FERPA , I argued that he spelled these words correctly but still had them marked wrong and she won't budge on her stance to correct the error to his grade.
I should also add that I only think it's appropriate for jr. high on up and preferably high school. I don't think it's at all appropriate in younger grades - specifically for what you're experiencing. I think the teacher is being lazy and belligerent. You should be able to at least notify her department head or principal.
post #7 of 34
9/1/06 at 1:39am
Also - no children - elementary aged ESPECIALLY, have ANY business grading handwriting!!!!!!! :
post #8 of 34
9/1/06 at 1:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophmama
I should also add that I only think it's appropriate for jr. high on up and preferably high school. I don't think it's at all appropriate in younger grades - specifically for what you're experiencing. I think the teacher is being lazy and belligerent. You should be able to at least notify her department head or principal.
Spoke with the principal and as he was sympathetic with me he was also understanding of her.. that she wants to set the standards for the school year early on. I am unsure where to take it from here though.. and I guess I wanted to see what others thought in terms of peer assessment aside from what I am going through.
post #9 of 34
9/1/06 at 1:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophmama
Also - no children - elementary aged ESPECIALLY, have ANY business grading handwriting!!!!!!! :
: NO KIDDING! : Especially if it was stated as such prior to taking the test.. I am almost dreading tomorrow... Fridays are spelling test days.
post #10 of 34
9/1/06 at 1:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumof3Nic
Spoke with the principal and as he was sympathetic with me he was also understanding of her.. that she wants to set the standards for the school year early on. I am unsure where to take it from here though.. and I guess I wanted to see what others thought in terms of peer assessment aside from what I am going through.
The next step is the superintendent. You can call the office and make an appointment or write a letter. Chances are, you will meet with an asst. super or some other lesser higher up. The sup is usually pretty busy. You could look up the curriculum standards for this grade and make a case that each standard should be graded separately, ie spelling one grade, handwriting another grade.

This is a lot of effort, though. You may also just want to concede defeat.
post #11 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boongirl
The next step is the superintendent. You can call the office and make an appointment or write a letter. Chances are, you will meet with an asst. super or some other lesser higher up. The sup is usually pretty busy. You could look up the curriculum standards for this grade and make a case that each standard should be graded separately, ie spelling one grade, handwriting another grade.

This is a lot of effort, though. You may also just want to concede defeat.
Admitting defeat to me is like letting my son slip right back to where we fought so hard to get away from.. nothing worth fighting for is ever easy. I truly don't want another child to go through this. I suppose my son is sensitive and discourages somewhat easily. He studied hard for that grade and deserved it regardless of some other child's interpretation of his handwriting. I have previously spoken with the superintendent but was at a different school in the district. I suppose I can call him up in the morning and see where it goes from there. I was hoping more of going in to speak with the principal again and maybe explaining to him that I feel peer grading is a violation of my sons rights and possibly seeing if that won't accomplish something. I am going to see what I can find on curriculum standards for 5th grade.. if anybody else has any input on this I am all ears (or eyes.. whichever way you look at it )
post #12 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:10am
I did not mean to imply that you should give up, just that that was an option. The principal is not going to buy into peer grading being a violation of your son's privacy. (see link and quote below) However, you might be able to get the principal to make the teacher grade his on her own. Except that would single him out and might make it worse. It might be better to make an appointment with the principal and the teacher at the same time and share your concerns for your son. Ask them what they can do to make sure this does not happen again. Ask them what can be done to make sure that your son passes the tests he studied so hard for. Ask the teacher what she is doing to make sure that peer grader grade accurately. What if they cannot read the writing, even though it is legible.

The Supreme Court has already decided that peer grading does not violate FERPA.

Quote:
The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday unanimously upheld the right of schools to engage in the common practice of having students grade one another's work in the classroom, which the Court ruled does not violate federal privacy statutes.
http://www.splc.org/newsflash.asp?id=366&year=2002
post #13 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boongirl
I did not mean to imply that you should give up, just that that was an option. The principal is not going to buy into peer grading being a violation of your son's privacy. (see link and quote below) However, you might be able to get the principal to make the teacher grade his on her own. Except that would single him out and might make it worse. It might be better to make an appointment with the principal and the teacher at the same time and share your concerns for your son. Ask them what they can do to make sure this does not happen again. Ask them what can be done to make sure that your son passes the tests he studied so hard for. Ask the teacher what she is doing to make sure that peer grader grade accurately. What if they cannot read the writing, even though it is legible.

The Supreme Court has already decided that peer grading does not violate FERPA.



http://www.splc.org/newsflash.asp?id=366&year=2002
I just came here to post how silly I sound without fully researching something fully before opening my mouth. I just stumbled upon a few articles on it. Ah well.. there are always other angles I can take it from I suppose.

Your suggestions and questions to pose are all on my lists of questions to ask. I don't think I can tell the teacher how to run her classroom and I don't think she is open to suggestions. Maybe it would just be easier to remove him from her classroom and go from there but I also don't think that teaches him anything about dealing with typical everyday problems either.. much thinking needed before I pursue things I guess.
post #14 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:28am
Do you have any local papers that would take on the story? Small papers that don't have any real news might be interested in a 'small' scandal. The mini-papers in our town often cover beef between parents and the school system when parents feel they're not being listened to. Keeps educators on their toes knowing their name may go in the local paper if they don't listen to parents.

Or maybe you could write an article to a magazine covering the topic yourself (including laws, etc.) Give the teacher and principal & everyone who ignored you a copy!!
post #15 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophmama
Do you have any local papers that would take on the story? Small papers that don't have any real news might be interested in a 'small' scandal. The mini-papers in our town often cover beef between parents and the school system when parents feel they're not being listened to. Keeps educators on their toes knowing their name may go in the local paper if they don't listen to parents.

Or maybe you could write an article to a magazine covering the topic yourself (including laws, etc.) Give the teacher and principal & everyone who ignored you a copy!!
Definitely an idea.. I don't want it to seem about "revenge" but I am looking to beat this teacher at her own game. Unfortunately my original thought was invalid and now I must think of other ways to go about this. I am thankful you wonderful mamas have lots of ideas for me to run with.. now if I can just keep my mouth shut before I fully research them I'll be good.
post #16 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:35am
My Dh is a 8th grade teacher and has 130 students this semester. I think that peer grading is very common and I don't agree that it is lazy teaching.
post #17 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumof3Nic
I don't think I can tell the teacher how to run her classroom and I don't think she is open to suggestions. Maybe it would just be easier to remove him from her classroom and go from there but I also don't think that teaches him anything about dealing with typical everyday problems either.. much thinking needed before I pursue things I guess.
You are correct in the latter sentiment. You cannot move him everytime he has a hard teacher. He will never hold a job for long as an adult as he won't know how to solve his problems.

As for the first sentence, I have learned something from my horrible, stressful year teaching the class from hell when I was pregnant with dd (long, long, long story and no I do not exaggerate, I can provide plenty of backup that they were the class from hell) is that you can get a lot accomplished by asking your adversary "what can we do to improve this situation?" We, meaning you, she, and your son. If everyong gives a little, you get a lot.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sun-shine01
My Dh is a 8th grade teacher and has 130 students this semester. I think that peer grading is very common and I don't agree that it is lazy teaching.
Well, not in middle school, no! Heck, I have no idea how middle and high school teachers teach that many students. But, when you only have 20-30 kids, you can do better than peer grading tests.
post #18 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:44am
I don't know how large your school system is, but in ours (14th largest in the nation), peer grading for tests is against the rules. It might not be US law, but it may be written down somewhere if your school system is large enough to have written policies on everything. Do you have any other teacher friends/ counselors, etc. that can help you with more information? Can you call the superintendant's office and ask about school system policies?

Everyone who has a kid in public school needs a teacher friend to ask when you need someone to talk to about 'stuff'. I know that's not always possible, but it can make life waaaay easier!
post #19 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boongirl
You are correct in the latter sentiment. You cannot move him everytime he has a hard teacher. He will never hold a job for long as an adult as he won't know how to solve his problems.

As for the first sentence, I have learned something from my horrible, stressful year teaching the class from hell when I was pregnant with dd (long, long, long story and no I do not exaggerate, I can provide plenty of backup that they were the class from hell) is that you can get a lot accomplished by asking your adversary "what can we do to improve this situation?" We, meaning you, she, and your son. If everyong gives a little, you get a lot.
THat is definitely why I am hesitant to move him but as I said previously I am concerned about crushing his spirit. I can already see him discouraged and not necessarily from this experience but from a few other things going on in the classroom. Maybe it would be best to schedule an appointment with her to see where we can go from here and how we can all have a working relationship.
post #20 of 34
9/1/06 at 2:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophmama
I don't know how large your school system is, but in ours (14th largest in the nation), peer grading for tests is against the rules. It might not be US law, but it may be written down somewhere if your school system is large enough to have written policies on everything. Do you have any other teacher friends/ counselors, etc. that can help you with more information? Can you call the superintendant's office and ask about school system policies?

Everyone who has a kid in public school needs a teacher friend to ask when you need someone to talk to about 'stuff'. I know that's not always possible, but it can make life waaaay easier!
Definitely something for me to keep in mind.. at this point I really don't have any teacher friends (heck I don't really have any "friends".. ) that I could ask but my son is friends with one of the secretaries son. I could probably ask her.. I also am somewhat friendly with someone on the school board I may snag her tomorrow morning to ask her thoughts. fingers crossed for me hopefully I find out something worthwhile that can help me. We are a relatively large school.. so might make something of a difference.
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