Too Much Tofu???

[adb252001]

Someone told dh that our dd shouldn't eat tofu too much. What??? She loves it. Has smart dogs and tofu like 3-4 times a week. Is this a bad thing?

[twilight girl]

Soy does contain phytoestrogens, and can mimc estrogen in the body. There are studies that say that this can bring on early puberty in girls when eaten in excess.

I understand that fermentation destroys the plant estrogens, therefore miso should be fine in that regard.

I've also read that soy contains goitrogens, which can lead to hypothyroidism when taken in excess. Cooking destroys the goitrogens (which by the way are also found in foods like broccoli, cabbage and some others).

I don't know what the 'limits' are for feeding soy to children, so I can't help there. In fact, I'm trying to find out if it's okay to feed my 10 mo. old girl miso.

HTH,
Judi

[BinahYeteirah]

bs"d

Twilight girl gave you alot of good info. I can't add anything technical to the discussion, but just wanted to mention that I think it is a good idea to shoot for variety as much as possible. So many food products are made with soy. When I was pregnant I probably had soy three times a day! 3-4 times a week doesn't seem like such a big deal to me, but now I try to eat more other legumes (lentils, chickpeas, beans, etc.) in place of soy products. This was an effort for me since I didn't like beans growing up, but 6 years of vegansim has taken care of that!

HTH

[michelle1k]

Here is John Robbins' ("diet for a new america") take on it:

Very well research and complete imho:

http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm

[cathe]

I have been reading a lot on the soy controversy. The latest scoop seems to be that soy in moderation is healthy and beneficial. In our house, my rule is one soy food a day - either soy milk on cereal, tofu for dinner, etc. 3 or 4 times a week is fine. I think the main concern with children is the soy formula where the child is consuming soy every meal as the only source of nourishment. Nothing conclusive with the high levels of photo-estrogens has been proven at this point but it is something to think about.

[tessamami]

There's a lot of great stuff on this.

We must keep in mind that when we talk about the dangers of soy we are talking about processed food products, not foods.

Miso, some tofu with miso, greens, meats, seaweeds can be part of a healthful diet. Soy burgers, hot dogs, etc. can be full of fillers, salts and sugars and often take the place of other foods. Now I'm not suggesting that folks put down their boca burgers and have a hamburger, but a daily diet of such "foods" doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Susun Weed has a terrific article on the subject click on "How safe is Soy?": http://www.susunweed.com/Weed_letter...1.htm#surprise

I also found this one: http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/Marketplace.htm

Also, those of you moms who have chosen soy formulas, please don't freak out! Dr. Weill doesn't seem to think soy formulas are a problem and stresses that soy can be consumed, in moderation:
http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cd...30-pt=Question

I really think that traditional, fermented soy products are the way to go if one is to eat them. Just like I believe whole foods is the healthy way to eat.

[morsan]

tofu contains phytic acid, like all other grains, legumes, seeds and nuts which have not been fermented, soaked, or sprouted to neutralize it. Phytic acid inhibits digestion (which is why many people find they can not tolerate tofu well), depletes the body of important minerals like calcium,and causes the body to require more B12. If you're not eating animal products this would be a major problem. In Asian countries, soy ratios average 2 tsp a day, in fermented form mostly.
A great site with good info about soy is www.westonaprice.org

Josefina.

[Quirky]

To respectfully disagree, I don't know where that number about 2 tsp. a day in Asian countries comes from but I don't think it's true. I lived in Japan for a number of years and between tofu, natto, miso, and soy sauce most Japanese people eat way more than 2 tsp. a day of soy products.

I also have looked at the weston price website before and I don't trust it. There was a page on there about breastfeeding and the mom's diet that was full of misinformation. Price was a dentist in the middle of the last century who had some way wacky ideas. Check out www.quackwatch.com and run a search for weston price.

I agree that a whole foods diet, with all things in moderation, is best. I just think that a lot of the "soy scare" is overblown.

[morsan]

I got kind turned off when reading the stuff about bfeeding as well, but after reading the etire articel it did make sense to me. I don't know what in particular was in your opinion misinformation, but low milk-supply which was heavily discussed, IS a major problem with modern western women. A lactating woman's diet is also crucial to the health of the infant, why wouldn't it be?

I will check out the qackwatch, altough I've done so in the pat and found it inaccurate.

Josefina.

[morsan]

i found one article related to weston price, with no references. i don't know how to put faith in something that does not tell you how and from where the information was taken. is this how this site usually warns people about health scams? if so, what are its credentials?

Josefina.

[tessamami]

Originally posted by morsan
low milk-supply which was heavily discussed, IS a major problem with modern western women. A lactating woman's diet is also crucial to the health of the infant, why wouldn't it be?

I know a lot of us "western women" worry about low milk supply but I disagree that it is a "problem". Breastfeeding is a confidence game and let's face it involves a whole lot of patience and holding of baby. And some women don't want to do it or decide at some point to stop - for a myriad of reasons.

Sure, diet is important but most of us eat enough to supply the energy needed to nurse our kids. I mean, short of starvation our bodies will not let us down. Much of the "low supply" problems can be attributed to supplementation, not nursing long or often enough, an excuse to give it up, crisis of confidence, formula marketing and simple ignorance of how breasts and breastfeeding changes. I don't believe that in a nation as fat as ours that low milk-supply is a true problem - but the worry about it sure is. . .

Back to the topic at hand - plastic is made out of soy. This fact does not make me think of soy as a wonder food but rather an industrial product.

Asian peoples seem to eat soy tofu, miso, tempeh etc. combined with greens or meat with fermented soy making up the bulk. It is important to note that this style of eating developed over hundreds of years and that your average Asian person is not subsisting on soy hot dogs. And even soy milk was not enjoyed in such large quantities until recently.

[morsan]

Sorry, I didn't mean to start a debate that is sort of off topic, but I'll respond quickly anyways : ).

There are indeed many factors that influence a woman's milk-supply, but to say that since we get enough calories in this country we are able to produce enough milk for our babies is a little too simplistic. In my own experince I've seen that alot of the women who claim they have low milk supply actually are overweight. So, in those cases, getting enough calories does not correspond to an adequate milk supply. I on the other hand, am quite underweight but produced too much milk. Also, many of these women smoke.

Josefina.

[Momtwice]

OT: About the milk supply thing: in many countries where low mik supply is extremely rare, they might nurse every 20 minutes. It is rare for a mom to nurse a few times an hour, in the US. Not that EVERY baby wants to nurse that much, but so many Western women falsely think nursing more than every 2 hours is excessive.
There are many other reasons, we could indeed start a whole thread about this....Western birth interventions, while sometimes lifesaving, are overused and can interfere with breastfeeding such as maternal medications, suctioning the baby's mouth, separation of new mothers from their newborns (either in hospital nursery, or sleeping in a seperate bedroom at home and missing early feeding cues)pacifiers etc. etc...........

Back on topic: I cannot find the article I read (and will post if I do) that suggested that the EXTREMELY wealthy and powerful US dairy industry is putting a lot of the anti-soy information (propoganda in my opinion) out there. After all they changed the food pyramid and the US calcium recommendations to emphasize huge dairy consumption, so I wouldn't put it past them........I truly wish we could find unbiased information about safe soy consumption but I don't expect to find it in the American popular media.

[tessamami]

The soy lobby

is HUGE. Please don't anyone kid ourselves. Soybeans were often used as cattle feed. But wait, why don't we intensely market soy so that we can make a gazillion more $$$?

What is really funny, too is that the US exports a ton of soybeans to Asian countries and then they package it, and sell it back to us!

I don't for a minute think that soy is a "bad" food but too much can be too much. And that goes for spinach, too.

[Momtwice]

tessamami: the soy lobby is HUGE. Please don't anyone kid ourselves. Soybeans were often used as cattle feed. But wait, why don't we intensely market soy so that we can make a gazillion more $$$?

See that's what gets me about American culture. If we are not being pushed into drinking cow's milk, we are being pushed into eating soy. THen it's blue fries and flourescent green ketchup. It makes me understand why moms homeschool and toss out the TV. My kids brought home an ad from a local sub shop given out in class, with food pyramid info on it.....and ads for soda and chips! It was a good "teachable moment" and I told the kids what I thought of it (and my objections to the food pyramid.)

Oh what I would give to have UNBIASED nutrition information!
Even Dr. Andrew Weil wrote in a recent newsletter that cranberries can reduce cholesterol, but hastened to point out that the claim came from the cranberry industry, and the studies were done with conventional cranberry juice drinks which are loaded with corn syrup. :

Advertising and lobbying aside, I think one of our flaws as a culture is that we tend to want to find ONE wonder food and base our diet around it, when VARIETY is the healthiest. But variety is less convenient so it doesn't sell.