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Is something wrong with this midwife?  

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Sorry for my English.
I have a friend who just had a baby, two weeks ago. I convinced her not to go to the doctors for prenatal care and delivery. I recommended midwife care, as more natural way of delivery and more help with breastfeeding. Now I feel terrible My midwife was on vacation so my friend ended up with some other midwife from the same clinic, very new, she just finished her studies. Already on prenatal visits my friend was not so pleased with the midwife, she had many questions and the midwife couldn't answer some of them. At the time of labor it was very bad, the midwife couldn't help my friend, luckily the second midwife came right before the delivery and helped pull the baby out . But they allowed the nursing only after couple of hours, my friend was very disappointed as a result.
Baby was born small – 8 pounds. At day 10 she didn't gain her birth weight, she was 2 onces smaller than at birth. Sometimes she nurses good for 40 minutes , sometimes for 5 minutes. Usually she nurses very strong for 5 minutes then falling asleep.
But stays at a breast and doesn't want to leave a nipple. She poops every time she eats and has like 6 wet diapers a day. The midwife says something wrong and gave following recommendations:
1. Take herbs to increase milk supply. My friend says she already has more then enough milk, her breast are very full. Her breasts are leaking a lot at night.
2.Undress the baby , take very cold (from the refrigerator) towel and wrap a baby in so the baby won't fall asleep at the breast. Baby should not be in skin contact with the mother so she won't be “too cozy” while eating.
3.Do not feed a baby very often , wait while a baby is very hungry, maybe crying for a few minutes, only then give her a breast.
4. After baby finished a breast, give her FORMULA with finger. My friend said that she can express her milk, but midwife insists on formula saying “it is too much trouble for you and maybe you even don't have enough milk to express.” My friend says that while the baby on one breast , the second breast almost bursting from milk. But the midwife doesn't want to hear, she just don't believe it.
As a result my friend doesn't want even go to this midwife anymore, she is very depressed, she feels as the midwife doesn't believe her when she said that she has more than enough milk, that the baby doesn't always sleepy, that the baby is strong, with a strong voice. My friend has older child, so she has experience with breastfeeding and with babies.
I read a lot about breastfeeding and lactation and I find these recommendations VERY strange. Or the midwife is rigth?
I am thinking go to the midwife clinic and write complain about her. What would you do?
post #2 of 28
I am no expert but that information sounds awful. Good for you trusting your instincts about this one. Tell her that if the babe is pooping, peeing, gaining weight (which is what sounds like is happening) then to follow baby's lead and nurse on demand for however long the babe wants.

I finger-feed my baby with expressed BM for the first 2 weeks b/c I was worried about her slow gain, but as soon as she was above birth weight Id stopped b/c she just couldn't eat anymore than what she was getting from me.

Tell her to trust her instincts and get away from this LC. I had a very toxic LC and told her to stay away from me, her advice was very dangerous.
post #3 of 28
She needs to find another practioner, immediately! One of the worst mistakes any health practitioner can make is to not listen to their patients. I can't believe that that midwife actually has a license to practice! If possible and your friends is willing, I would help to find a LC that can actually help her.
post #4 of 28
I think wrapping a newborn baby in a cold towel could be dangerous... not to mention the dangers of formula feeding and how that could affect her supply and everything else. I just cannot imagine taking a tiny baby and putting it in a towel from the freezer!!!!!!!

She should contact lalecheleague.org for some help, IMO and stop seeing that midwife.
post #5 of 28
Yes, exactly what the pp poster said. Wrapping a baby in a cold blanket could be potentially dangerous not to mention extremely uncomfortable for the baby. Also, who in world would want to relax and eat when they are freezing cold! Not me, I know that! Definately contact La Leche Leauge..that's horrible advice the MW gave.
post #6 of 28
ummmm.......first of all, eight pounds isn't small. thats good. since nursing is always difficult at first, the baby can still get nutrients from the umbilical cord---just natures way of insuring the baby's survival----

i was sooooo worried that my baby wasn't nursing enough when he was born, because of what all my breast feeding books said, but i've come to realize that i think its like that for most people. like the chicks who say they didn't have a milk supply and go straight to formula, but perhaps its not that they don't have enough milk, but instead the baby is brand new and is just getting used to being born let alone, nurse on a breast?

i had a midwife that was kind of scarey and i switched to a doctor by my seventh month. i'm kind of turned off by the midwifrey feild now.
post #7 of 28
Wow - what terrible advice. This midwife sounds like she knows very little about bfing.

I would recommend your friend call your local LLL. Is there one near you? If not, there's an 800 number she can call to get better advice.

I'm sorry she's having trouble. I'm glad she has such a good friend who is so concerned.
post #8 of 28
I think the "wrapping the baby in a cold towel" thing is up there with some of the worst parenting advice I've ever heard. I would be extremely upset of my midwife or LC told me this!!

Please help your friend find someone new and/or contact the LLL soon!

mamaofthreecats, don't be turned off to midwives! The midwives I saw at the beginning of my pregnancy were horrible...I was so upset going to see them that I got sick out of anxiety. Then after we moved, we found new midwives, and they were so, so perfect for us. I only stuck with the bad ones because I only had four appointments with them before we moved, but I was really nervous about finding new midwives because my first experience was so terrible...so I understand where you're coming from.
post #9 of 28
If the baby is pooping at every feeding, and having 6 wet diapers a day, then obviously the baby is getting plenty of milk!

8 lbs is pretty big for a newborn. Did your friend get IV fluids (fluids through a needle in her arm) while in labor? If so, the baby might have had extra fluid in her when she was born- meaning that she weighed 8 lbs but maybe she was supposed to weigh only 7 lbs and she could be the perfect weight right now!

Besides, being 2 ounces below birthweight a week or two after being born is well within the range of normal.
post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrenaF
2.Undress the baby , take very cold (from the refrigerator) towel and wrap a baby in so the baby won't fall asleep at the breast. Baby should not be in skin contact with the mother so she won't be “too cozy” while eating.

I am thinking go to the midwife clinic and write complain about her. What would you do?

This is SCARY. way beyond bad parenting advice. this is kind of sick. scary. potentially abusive. dangerous. I feel so badly and scared for any infant whose mom was convinced by this midwife that their tiny newborn needed to be treated like this.

YES--go, write a letter, complain. your friend needs sound information and support right away.
post #11 of 28
Did she go to the Ezzo school of breastfeeding counseling??? Complain, loudly about this midwife. She is going to do serious damage to moms w/o friends like you and could possibly seriously hurt a baby w/ the cold towel thing.

Sus
post #12 of 28
I have to agree, 8 lbs isn't small...it's on the larger side of average, I believe.

Is your friend actually following the advice?

DEFINATELY complain about the towel thing - what a great way to introduce a newborn to hypothermia!!!! That is seriously sick and dangerous advice and could kill an infant. That actually upsets me more than the bad breastfeeding advice.
post #13 of 28
Midwives are not necessarily trained as lactation consultants. I have heard bad breastfeeding advice both from a homebirth, crunchy midwife and from a registered nurse-midwife. The thing is, they think they know even when they don't. Do you know what I mean? Because they know birth and they've seen a lot of them. Fine, but i'm going to go with someone who actually keeps up on current thinking about nursing!

The cold towel thing--when my baby had trouble feeding at the very beginning, we were told to wake him up with a wet washcloth. i've also heard the undressing advice for the same issue.

That doesn't mean you should wrap a naked baby in a chilled towel! Especially a naked baby who isn't really having any trouble nursing.

If your friend has concerns, she should call la leche league or an IBCLC. But it sounds like eveyrthing is actually going well and she should just do what she did with her first child and ignore the midwife.
post #14 of 28
Okay, gonna play devil's advocate here for a second re cold towel.

While I agree that *wrapping* a newborn in a cold towel is a very dangerous idea, when my first dd was born, she was very, VERY sleepy and literally starving to death because she couldn't stay awake to nurse. (Talking like losing weight actively after 2 weeks.) I finally went to eping as a result of the difficulty I had getting her to stay awake at the breast. The lactation consultants I saw suggested things like undressing her, touching her (not wrapping) with a cold washcloth, putting cold coke cans on her naked back. We tried all of these things (saving the cold coke can for last bc it seemed particularly mean), but she was too sleepy or stubborn. However, I've known other women with sleepy babies for whom the cold washcloth (usually just from the sink, not ice water) worked wonderfully.

So maybe your friend misunderstood? At any rate, she sounds pretty lousy, but perhaps not in the criminally irresponsible vein?
post #15 of 28
None of that sounds good to me at all.

She should see a certified lactation consultant or go to a La Leche League meeting.

Its not uncommon for newborns to be sleepy nor is it uncommon for them to have not gained weight by 10 days. It can take 2 weeks to fully regain and some babies are still a little under weight by then.

She should nurse as often and as long as the baby wants.
post #16 of 28
3.Do not feed a baby very often , wait while a baby is very hungry, maybe crying for a few minutes, only then give her a breast.

Wrong. Waiting until the baby is so hungry they are upset means a disorganized feeding. The American Academy of Pediatrics says crying in newborns is a LATE sign of hunger.

(See "Breastfeeding and the Use of Human Milk" article, you can google it.)
post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terabith
Okay, gonna play devil's advocate here for a second re cold towel.

While I agree that *wrapping* a newborn in a cold towel is a very dangerous idea, when my first dd was born, she was very, VERY sleepy and literally starving to death because she couldn't stay awake to nurse. (Talking like losing weight actively after 2 weeks.) I finally went to eping as a result of the difficulty I had getting her to stay awake at the breast. The lactation consultants I saw suggested things like undressing her, touching her (not wrapping) with a cold washcloth, putting cold coke cans on her naked back. We tried all of these things (saving the cold coke can for last bc it seemed particularly mean), but she was too sleepy or stubborn. However, I've known other women with sleepy babies for whom the cold washcloth (usually just from the sink, not ice water) worked wonderfully.
Applying cold to a newborn can have the opposite affect of waking them up. Just like painful things like circumcision can cause them to go into a deep sleep, applying cold can do the same thing. Gentle stroking at room temperature usually works much better.
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrenaF
2.Undress the baby , take very cold (from the refrigerator) towel and wrap a baby in so the baby won't fall asleep at the breast. Baby should not be in skin contact with the mother so she won't be “too cozy” while eating.
PAK
I'm a child abuse investgator, and where I am from that IS abuse. I would "support" the allegation for Physical abuse, meaning that the allegation of abuse is true. I doubt I'd remove the baby or anything beyond education with the mom, and I'd likely give her better BF advice than she has been getting.

There is a difference between not swadling and keeping a baby toasty warm when feeding versus actively cooling a baby with a refiregerated (sp) blanket. It would be very easy for a parent to get carried away, or for a child to be hurt by that awful advice. Please help your friend get better help.
post #19 of 28
Thread Starter 
My friend doesn't do what this midwife told her. Her baby isn't sleepy anymore and everything looks fine for now. The baby has full diapers, and is strong and active. But my friend has to go to this midwife for another month (until baby is 6 weeks old) and she is afraid to tell the truth that she didn't follow the advices. And she is afraid that the midwife will accuse her of neglect because the baby is not gaining weight as the midwife wants. Her older son was gaining weight very slowly, he was very thin and she herself was very thin growing up, so it must be the genes . My friend thinks that the same problem with the baby. Is anybody here from Canada? What she can do? How to talk to this midwife? Can she stop seeng her?
post #20 of 28
Midwives in Ontario are legally sanctioned by the province. Since their funding comes directly from OHIP, I would contact the Ministry of Health and ask them what you can do and what info you need to proceed with a formal complaint against this particular MW.

Here is the contact info for the Ontario Ministry of Health:
Call the ministry INFOline at 1-800-268-1154
(Toll-free in Ontario only)
In Toronto, call 416-314-5518
TTY 1-800-387-5559
Hours of operation : 8:30am - 5:00pm

I would imagine that should your friend choose not to see her anymore, it is her perogative. Just like doctors, if you don't like one you switch.

LP
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