Discussion about UC birth - Page 6

[shell024]

Statistics are interesting, and could be beneficial as a whole I guess, but statistics barely had any role in my decision to have a UC.

[anothermama]

IMHO, the issue boils down to one thing........

Women birth most effectively where they feel safest, in the company of people with whom they feel most safe.

I'm so fed up with people meddling in my births and it just frustrates me, that's my modivation for wanting to UC next time. (That is unless I can pay Pam enough money to come down and attend my next birth... )

I don't believe UC is for everyone just as I don't believe, currently, homebirth is for everyone. The potential is there, though. We're all capable of becoming experts in our births, IMHO.

[babycatcher01]

I don't believe UC is for everyone just as I don't believe, currently, homebirth is for everyone. The potential is there, though. We're all capable of becoming experts in our births, IMHO.

This is the truth. Woman have to want to do something. You cant be talked into something that you are not ok with. UC and hb are for woman who seek this option. Their ideas about birth change as they edcuate themselves on other options and their bodies. There are a slew of questions that one could ask about the subject. What if something goes wrong, what if the baby dosnt breath? I just say all these things can and do happen more then we like to know about in hopsital with "trained" medical persons, who might I add have a had time focusing when a problem does arise.

I feel we have a job when we are pregnant and birthing. We need to edcuate ourselves on how our bodies do work and what is normal for us. We need to know there the ins and outs of the labor and birth, knowing that when problems come how can we deal with them. Edcuation is always key, the more we know the safer( in theory) we are.

[~~Mama2B~~]

Originally Posted by shell024

Statistics are interesting, and could be beneficial as a whole I guess, but statistics barely had any role in my decision to have a UC.

Ditto

[prettypixels]

I feel so sad when I hear women say, "I couldn't do it without medication" or "I have to have a midwife" or whatever.

Mama2B, since you asked, this is what you said that got me a little riled. I don't feel hostile towards you, but sending pity out to a woman who chooses to have a midwife is kind of condescending, and doesn't seem to give her credit for making an informed choice. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way. Anyways my post was not meant to be hostile... just a response and discussion.

[shell024]

I dont *think* she was sending pity out to women who choose to have midwives attend their births, I *think* (and correct me if I'm wrong please!) she just meant that the thought that so many women out there are not confident in their body's ability to birth, with or without meds or a midwife or whatever is saddening for her. If women instead said "I know my body is designed to do this, and I have confidence in myself, my body and mother nature, but I'd prefer a midwife to be there because ---insert whatever personal reason here---" it would be a little different, yk?

I also feel sad that as a whole, so many women out there do NOT believe their bodies can birth a baby without someone there to assist them, or provide pain medications. (Not directing this at anyone, I'm generalizing a bit here...)

I think Mama2B's comment was meant in hope that someday women will feel empowered and take control of their births, with or without someone attending.

Let me know if I'm way off here, lol.

[~~Mama2B~~]

Originally Posted by shell024

I dont *think* she was sending pity out to women who choose to have midwives attend their births, I *think* (and correct me if I'm wrong please!) she just meant that the thought that so many women out there are not confident in their body's ability to birth, with or without meds or a midwife or whatever is saddening for her. If women instead said "I know my body is designed to do this, and I have confidence in myself, my body and mother nature, but I'd prefer a midwife to be there because ---insert whatever personal reason here---" it would be a little different, yk?

I also feel sad that as a whole, so many women out there do NOT believe their bodies can birth a baby without someone there to assist them, or provide pain medications. (Not directing this at anyone, I'm generalizing a bit here...)

I think Mama2B's comment was meant in hope that someday women will feel empowered and take control of their births, with or without someone attending.

Let me know if I'm way off here, lol.

That's what Iw as trying to get across. Like I said, I do not pity or condemn women for choosing to have a med or midwife or birth center birth. Your birth is your decision. I only feel sad that women don't believe their bodies are capable of birthing, or that they are not capable of handing birth.

It wasn't meant to be rude of as an attack on women who make informed choices to birth with attendants or whatever.

I have a friend who believes she could not physically make it through birth without an epidural. The thing that saddens me is not that fact that she has epidurals, but the fact that our society leads women to believe that they cannot get through birth wihout assistance.

To me its just like the former belief that women were not physically capable of working outside the home. I personally hope to be a SAHM someday and I think its a wonderful and healthy choice. However, I would feel sad if society still made the choice for us and we accepted it as fact, not knowing we are capable of a different (and in some circumstances, better) path should we choose to take it. Does that make more sense?

Kristi

[lolalola]

Originally Posted by ~~Mama2B~~

I have a friend who believes she could not physically make it through birth without an epidural. The thing that saddens me is not that fact that she has epidurals, but the fact that our society leads women to believe that they cannot get through birth wihout assistance.
Kristi

This is so true! I know women who made up their minds to have an epidural before even the hint of a contraction. Women have been socially conditioned to believe/accept that they are not capable of birthing their babies without medical intervention. Granted, there are women for whom the pain is unbearable, and I am grateful that there are options available to ease a woman's suffering. However, I believe that much of the pain is due to an irrational fear of childbirth, and that if women were empowered to trust in the strength of her body, there would be a lot less medical intervention. Anyway,that's my two cents.
Great conversation!

[poetesss]

When I hear UC discussed a lot of times what comes up is the idea of UCing because the woman "trusts her body." It seems like the flip side would be that if you do feel the need for an attendant, you have a lesser sense of trust in your body. As mentioned in a pp:

the thought that so many women out there are not confident in their body's ability to birth, with or without meds or a midwife or whatever is saddening for her. If women instead said "I know my body is designed to do this, and I have confidence in myself, my body and mother nature, but I'd prefer a midwife to be there because ---insert whatever personal reason here---" it would be a little different, yk?

I also feel sad that as a whole, so many women out there do NOT believe their bodies can birth a baby without someone there to assist them, or provide pain medications. (Not directing this at anyone, I'm generalizing a bit here...)

Forgetting about the pain medications and just focusing on the desire for an attendant here--I'm not so sure that the reason people who don't chose UC is that they "do not believe their bodies can birth a baby without someone there to assist them." Heck, I know that my baby is going to come and I'm going to birth him whether I'm alone, with dh, with a group of friends/family who are not "medical attendants" OR if there is a midwife in attendance. It's going to happen, I fully trust my body to do it (in fact, part of me is intuiting that I will end up birthing alone because of a fast birth, but we'll see). I guess this is the distinction the pp was describing above--the ones who feel they *can't* do it alone, and those who don't *want* to do it alone.

So for me, the question is, do I *want* to be flying solo during that time? While I agree that pregnancy and birth are not illnesses, they are conditions where, to put it bluntly, sometimes "sh*t happens." If something does happen, I'd just feel more relaxed if I had a helping hand there to deal with it. Otherwise, I just want to be the swimmer who's doing her laps without interference from the lifeguard. So personally, for me it's not an issue of trust or whatever. And that's just for me, not something I'd apply to others. Everyone has their own desires and ideas about birth, and to each her own.

And if you carry the trust metaphor far enough, then why not question the need for prenatal care? A lot of UCers do unassisted pregnancy as well, but a lot also see midwives/OBs. Sometimes I hear some UCers questioning other UCers "trust" in their body simply because they are going to someone else for prenatals. Again, I don't think it's about trust, rather comfort level.

Anyway, end of my soapbox...can other UCers chime in with your thoughts?

[stellimamo]

A lot of UCers do unassisted pregnancy as well, but a lot also see midwives/OBs. Sometimes I hear some UCers questioning other UCers "trust" in their body simply because they are going to someone else for prenatals. Again, I don't think it's about trust, rather comfort level.

I think it's also CYA for alot of UCers because having prenatals w/ MW or OB and than having an "oops" UC looks alot better to CPS, than not having any prenatal records. If you can show that you did have some "medical care" you are less likely to be charged w/ medical neglect by some overzealous CPS worker.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by poetesss

When I hear UC discussed a lot of times what comes up is the idea of UCing because the woman "trusts her body." It seems like the flip side would be that if you do feel the need for an attendant, you have a lesser sense of trust in your body. As mentioned in a pp:



Forgetting about the pain medications and just focusing on the desire for an attendant here--I'm not so sure that the reason people who don't chose UC is that they "do not believe their bodies can birth a baby without someone there to assist them." Heck, I know that my baby is going to come and I'm going to birth him whether I'm alone, with dh, with a group of friends/family who are not "medical attendants" OR if there is a midwife in attendance. It's going to happen, I fully trust my body to do it (in fact, part of me is intuiting that I will end up birthing alone because of a fast birth, but we'll see). I guess this is the distinction the pp was describing above--the ones who feel they *can't* do it alone, and those who don't *want* to do it alone.

So for me, the question is, do I *want* to be flying solo during that time? While I agree that pregnancy and birth are not illnesses, they are conditions where, to put it bluntly, sometimes "sh*t happens." If something does happen, I'd just feel more relaxed if I had a helping hand there to deal with it. Otherwise, I just want to be the swimmer who's doing her laps without interference from the lifeguard. So personally, for me it's not an issue of trust or whatever. And that's just for me, not something I'd apply to others. Everyone has their own desires and ideas about birth, and to each her own.

This is the way I feel--I have no problem trusting my body to be able to birth without intervention. But I feel more comfortable having a midwife present in case of complications or emergencies that I don't know how to handle or feel comfortable handling.

And besides...it was really nice having another woman around to help me take a shower and that sort of stuff after the birth while DH held the baby (we live several hundred miles from family and didn't have any close friends in the area, so I didn't have any other options as far as birth attendants).

[accountclosed3]

i think that a lot of women who choose midwives at their homebirths do so not because of fears of complications and what not, but because of what the PP wrote which was about getting diverse support during and after the birth.

this makes sense to me. though, i would prefer to be on my own.

[boscopup]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

This is the way I feel--I have no problem trusting my body to be able to birth without intervention. But I feel more comfortable having a midwife present in case of complications or emergencies that I don't know how to handle or feel comfortable handling.

Ditto for me. And part of it for me is also the fact that my body *has* failed me in pregnancy before (the birth itself went fine - very quick vaginal delivery), so while I have trust that my body will spit out a baby, I don't fully have trust that baby or I won't need some sort of assistance after the birth. I am pretty positive we'd be ok (and I'm planning to be mentally prepared to accidental UC, since my first labor was very fast and it's the norm in my family to have fast labors), but I just feel better knowing that a midwife would be near or close to being near IF the baby wasn't breathing or if I started bleeding excessively, etc. I personally am not good in "emergency" situations. I can't think in those situations. I'd make a horrible midwife. My DH is great in emergency situations, but I don't think he should have to study midwifery to be ready to handle complications. That's what the midwife is for - to handle complications. If I have no complications, then she can sit on her hands or just help me out by massaging or whatever I need.

Part of it for me this time around also is that I really have no clue what to do with a freshly born baby. So I'd feel more comfortable with another woman there to assist me in figuring out that part of things, since I didn't get to even hold my first baby until he was a day old, and when I did hold him, he was already swaddled and handed to me. It was several more days before I even changed a diaper or tried to pick him up myself. And it was 3 weeks before I got to try breastfeeding. So I'm just a bit nervous about the whole freshly born baby thing. Probably sounds weird, but I'll appreciate having my midwife and her apprentice (who is a friend of mine) there to walk me through that fresh newborn stage, getting nursing going, etc. Honestly, I'm not worried about a midwife being there during labor/birth - it's just that time immediately after the birth that I really want her there.

And when #3 comes along, I might consider planning a UC, and just having a nearby midwife "on call" (probably the one that is currently apprenticing - she'll have her CPM by then, and she lives about 10-15 minutes from me). I don't know. The idea of UC appeals to me and has from my first pregnancy, yet the fresh newborn baby thing still has me too nervous to actually go with a UC. Not to mention the DH subject... I did good to talk him into out-of-hospital birth last time (even though we didn't get to do it). Talking him into UC may or may not be doable, but would probably be more doable after we've done an out-of-hospital birth. He's pro-out-of-hospital birth now, and that's a huge change from the "absolutely not" answer I got when I first brought up the idea 3 years ago.

[mwherbs]

this is dropping off the page so though I would bump it up - plenty of readers any more discussion?

[sapphire_chan]

On the silly side, if Pamela's partner gives birth with Pamela as the only one there, does that count as "unattended" or "unassisted"?

1. With partner = unattended
+
2. Who's a midwife = attended
+
3. Who's totally hands off = unassisted
=???

[moonfirefaery]

It does make me sad though when they just choose it out of desperation because there are no midwives available for whatever reason (cost, regulations, geography, legalities, etc)

I really want a homebirth with a CNM, but there is only one CM nearby (40 miles away) that Tricare Prime will cover -- and I don't even know if she does homebirth or if I will be compatible with her. Our only options are hospital, unassisted, or switching to Tricare Standard and footing part of the bill which we may not be able to afford. (Does anyone know any Colorado midwives or even mamas who have done homebirths themselves that might assist for free?

I love the idea of UC so much, but I have concerns. I tore with #1 and am afraid the same will happen with #2, for example. I'm also concerned about doing my first home birth without a CNM's support. I know I can do it but I think it will be much easier and more pleasant with an experienced helping hand, at least this time around. I wouldn't want a totally unassisted/unattended childbirth... my husband would have to attend and assist, and my son, too I think it would be nice to have a midwife, too, though, so long as she is hands off.

I'm considering mostly doing [mostly] unassisted pregnancy / prenatal self-care as well, seeing a healh professional only if something seems wrong. I'd probably go in to confirm the pregnancy, get a 20 week ultrasound, and probably have a check-up near my due date as well....and again of course if I was bleeding or incredibly nauseated and wanted some help. I don't think I would like to go TOTALLY unassisted with pregnancy, or with birth, not if I could help it. I would like to be made aware of anything, such as if the baby is in a breech position or if there's some abnormality, so that I can prepare myself.

Jenny, you say your second-degree tear healed naturally on its own. Are you 'altered' down there because of it? Did it take longer to heal than if it had stitches, do you think? This is one of my concerns. If everything can heal on its own, even a retained placenta, then that is a real relief. Do you think that's typical?

When did you all go to the hospital for a postpartum check-up and well-baby visit? I would wnat to make sure everything was okay with me and the baby, just in case, or at least to be made aware of any thing I should watch out for maybe. I was thinking within two days would be good, but sometimes that seems like such a short time and sometimes it seems so long, too!

I was so uneducated and totally unready for a homebirth or UC. While I hate most of the memories of my hospital birth I am incredibly grateful for it at the same time. I could not have made it without the epidural...only because I had nothing to distract, calm, or soothe me. I was clueless about pain management and ways of coping. I was lost.

What would you consider a circumstance where transfer would be required? Are there any circumstances where you would not consider a homebirth at all?

That people see UC as child endangerment worries me as well :/ I mentioned homebirth to my ob/gyn today and she was almost shocked. Just said few people will do those because of the 'risks.' I was like...what risks???? The funny thing about me is that... I like to shock people. I love to expose people to things they aren't familiar with. Most of the time I find their reactions hilarious, though I don't laugh (until later on) but enjoy the chance to educate and expose them to something new. Sometimes people can be REALLY rude and offensive, and that bothers me. Maybe I like the attention or something. I just think shock is kind of funny, especially when it's mostly unfounded. I'm the odd girl out, and I love it (most of the time). It's dealing with things like belligerant docs that I despise. My Memaw said "oh no!" when I told her I wanted a homebirth, and I just laughed and explained...and within moments she was as convinced as I was that this was a great choice! My husband was appalled at first and within just a few days he's a lot more supportive of it. I think he may secretly be looking forward to it.

I'm attracted to UC because I think it is very safe, much safer than a hospital or even just an assisted home birth in some situations. I think it is preferable to other options, in many cases. I see it as a chance to get in touch with myself, with nature, and with my child. Also, I would love to just be able to say "I did that!" I think it would give me so much confidence especially in my parenting. I feel safe and comfortable at home, where I am free and in control, and it seems so pleasant to give birhth there. I think this will bring me in touch with myself and my child and life in general.

I would love more info on pain management techniques, homeopathic remedies, etc...too.

And the poster above me... I think you've got it right with the attended/unattended/etc definitions.

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by shell024

I dont *think* she was sending pity out to women who choose to have midwives attend their births, I *think* (and correct me if I'm wrong please!) she just meant that the thought that so many women out there are not confident in their body's ability to birth, with or without meds or a midwife or whatever is saddening for her. If women instead said "I know my body is designed to do this, and I have confidence in myself, my body and mother nature, but I'd prefer a midwife to be there because ---insert whatever personal reason here---" it would be a little different, yk?

I would like to think that at least here on MDC, we can agree that the women who are *choosing* to have a midwife-attended birth have informed themselves adequately, and just came to a different decision. Being sad over that decision on their behalf, to me, feels condescending. Perhaps that wasn't the intention, but to be honest I've seen a lot of different comments about midwife-attended births by UCers that feel that way to me. One thing which seems consistent to me on the UC boards when I peek is a large amount of disdain for midwives in general, and I have to say my midwife doesn't behave at all like the ones I've seen described. I'm sure there are bad apples in any group, but it sucks to judge the group based on the bad apples!

I just think it's important for all of us to *respect* the choices we are making for ourselves. Whether that is UC, a hospital birth, or a midwife attended birth.

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

On the silly side, if Pamela's partner gives birth with Pamela as the only one there, does that count as "unattended" or "unassisted"?

I don't think it was quite either in their case, but theoretically it could be either or both.

Originally Posted by shell024

Originally Posted by shell024
I dont *think* she was sending pity out to women who choose to have midwives attend their births, I *think* (and correct me if I'm wrong please!) she just meant that the thought that so many women out there are not confident in their body's ability to birth, with or without meds or a midwife or whatever is saddening for her. If women instead said "I know my body is designed to do this, and I have confidence in myself, my body and mother nature, but I'd prefer a midwife to be there because ---insert whatever personal reason here---" it would be a little different, yk?

Originally Posted by prettypixels

I would like to think that at least here on MDC, we can agree that the women who are *choosing* to have a midwife-attended birth have informed themselves adequately, and just came to a different decision. Being sad over that decision on their behalf, to me, feels condescending.

First, she's not talking only about women on MDC, and second, she's not saying that for women to choose a midwife-attended homebirth in itself is sad. She's saying that it's sad for women to have to make the choice based on lack of confidence.

I'll put it another way: it's sad when people can't reap the benefits of what they are capable of because of ignorance or fear, and I'll add, regardless of whether the choice is homebirth or hospital birth or UC. So I am not supposed to feel anything about that? Well, sorry, but apathy is not my thing. I feel badly because I would feel badly if it was true for me. That's called compassion and empathy. And I'd like to think that here at MDC when people say these sorts of things that's where it's coming from. Maybe it's just a matter of perspective. Whether you feel defensive or not colors how you perceive others' words.

One thing which seems consistent to me on the UC boards when I peek is a large amount of disdain for midwives in general, and I have to say my midwife doesn't behave at all like the ones I've seen described. I'm sure there are bad apples in any group, but it sucks to judge the group based on the bad apples!

I've read probably 90% of what's on the UC forum, which I assume is probably more than a peek here and there. I sometimes see anger at individual midwives in the context of working through traumatic birth experiences, but nothing to suggest than anyone other than a few extremists (whose anger and hurt is probably blinding them a bit) are anti-midwifery. To imply that UCers in general are of low enough intelligence and reason to judge all of midwifery by the actions of a few midwives is utterly insulting. And your commentary is ironic considering that you are doing the very same thing you accuse us of doing -- judging the group based on the few "bad" apples.

It seems like I (and many others) are constantly having to make the disclaimer that we don't hate midwives and didn't choose UC because we hate midwives. It is really tiresome. If people wouldn't make the assumptions... but okay, I get it, UC is an extreme choice so we must all be nutcases, so therefore we must all believe these crazy things. Listen, I did have a traumatic first birth with a midwife and I have criticized her practices all over MDC, as well as criticizing common practices and myths of midwifery, and I have that pretty UC icon in my siggy too. I guess it would be easy enough to draw the conclusion from that that I am anti-midwife. Think again. I am friends with midwives, have spoken to groups of midwives and midwifery students because I believe in midwifery and want to see it improve, and I had an empowering healing birth with a midwife.

This is supposed to be an informational thread, not a "this is what is wrong with UCers thread". The "Us Versus Them" mentality is just really not constructive. Try to see us as real people with brains and real concerns, many of which are similar to those who choose homebirth, just taken another step farther. It may not be a step that some may be comfortable making or have the need to make, but it's on the same path, and some of the issues that compel women to make this choice are relevant to all women no matter with whom or where they give birth.

[pamamidwife]

yeah, my partner's birth was not the hands-off birth you'd expect it to be. she asked me to check her, she asked me to break her water. if I hadn't been a midwife, she wouldn't have asked these things, so it was not unassisted or unattended in any sense of the word. she did catch her own baby, but I was a midwife.

[mwherbs]

depends on what you define as hands off many women who UC have partners check them- discussed this with couples before- where she can't reach and wants him/her to check- any time in pregnancy as well as finding out before labor how to do this or later when partners describe what they have felt or found when they have done checks. ROM is a bit different but I have had women tell me they have ruptured the membranes on their own.