Discussion about UC birth - Page 9

[cottonwood]

But I also think it would be foolish for me to think that the only time a tight nuchal cord can effect the baby is if the enviornment constipates the situation[...]

Yes. The constipated birth does not cause the tight nuchal cord (although it may exacerbate it,) so it follows that there can be a tight nuchal cord in an unconstipated birth. But if the second stage is not constipated, there's nothing you can (or should) do about it until the baby is born anyway.

[...]or that an enviornment can not be constipated in a UC.

Agreed again. This is one of the major dangers of UC in my opinion -- when people are not aware to what extent their own actions and thoughts affect the process negatively.

[DreamsInDigital]

Admittedly, a tight nuchal cord is one of those things that scares me a little bit about planning a UC. I tend to have large babies, my last was 10 lbs. 2 oz. and I am a little fearful of having an issue with a tightly wrapped cord coupled with a long pushing stage. I'm curious to see what I would check for or what it would feel like if the baby had a tight cord. Anyone?

[erin_brycesmom]

Two (and this is probably the most relevant part of it at this point,) because she talks about the fundus following the baby, which I thought was interesting regarding the fear of short cords.

How does one know if the fundus is following the baby? Is this a visual thing from the outside? Just curious because none of that was visible because of the position I was pushing in. I'm thinking I'll probably push that way next time as well, I loved that position.

I remember seeing a drawing of a baby whose cord was wrapped around its neck and then continued on to the opposite side of his body and then through his legs. Seems like that would be a bad thing during pushing to have the cord pulling on both sides of the baby and could make the cord taut even with a normal/long cord.

[jillybeans]

Originally Posted by pamamidwife

We all have different belief systems. Just as there are a hundred different philosophies with midwives (and their own biases to go with those), there are different values with birth and parenting.

I could not have said it better. Thank you for your post, i think it gave people a lot to think about!

[pamamidwife]

the fundus naturally follows the baby - every contraction as the baby descends takes up more of the "slack" from the uterus to help push the baby out. the body is designed to be able to get the baby out without mother's pushing efforts - this means that the fundus is always right on the baby. unless something is seriously wrong (like she stops having contractions altogether), the fundus is right on the baby until it comes out. then there's a lull and contractions start again.

right after the baby is born, the fundus is usually at or right above the belly button.

physiologically, it makes sense that the body would work to be able to push the baby out without any effort from mom - and it does this by pushing down on the baby through the pelvis.

[pamamidwife]

Originally Posted by DreamsInDigital

Admittedly, a tight nuchal cord is one of those things that scares me a little bit about planning a UC. I tend to have large babies, my last was 10 lbs. 2 oz. and I am a little fearful of having an issue with a tightly wrapped cord coupled with a long pushing stage. I'm curious to see what I would check for or what it would feel like if the baby had a tight cord. Anyone?

I wouldn't check for anything - just push your baby out. He/she will come out, then unwrap the cord. Instinctively, you'll just do it.

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by pamamidwife

this means that the fundus is always right on the baby. unless something is seriously wrong (like she stops having contractions altogether),

I was just gonna say -- unless you're in the "rest and be thankful stage"! So what are you talking about here?

Originally Posted by DreamsInDigital

I am a little fearful of having an issue with a tightly wrapped cord coupled with a long pushing stage

As well as thinking about the tight cord, think about why you would have a long pushing stage (that is, baby in the birth canal a long time, not including the lighter pushy feelings pre-second stage.) What contributed to a long second stage with your others? What do you think might cause a long pushing stage in an unhindered birth?

[loved]

pamamidwife - yes - baby came right after. Come to think of it - I had seen maybe 6 doula hospital births where nuchal cords were cut and about half babies needed help. The rest really were o.k. Just my experience. I am NOT saying it's o.k., at all. I think it goes along the lines of what you have said - babies that are distressed need that life-blood even moreso. Many times, though, practitioners cut nuchal cords as a matter of course - or in my case the midwife wasn't comfortable with the tautness or the amount (wrapped 3x's) - and I know for sure there was a power-trip going on! I just wish I seen different.
We midwives, need to be trained differently!

Back to UC: I too, have always respected every woman's right to choose where, how and with whom...and it has never stopped at UC. I love women, and I really tend to trust them (US!).

I worry about aspects of UC - or maybe it's factions of the UC community. I worry about the fear that can initiate one to give birth alone...(but I know there are 'bad' midwives out there)...but I also know that "worry" is just fear on my part.
Mostly, I love the movement and think it will do a lot of good (and has already.).

[sapphire_chan]

Or the fears of bad midwives will cause women to ask better questions of midwives they are considering hiring.

[mama in the forest]

I worry about the fear that can initiate one to give birth alone..

What do you mean by this? Do you think women who birth alone are motivated by fear?

[DreamsInDigital]

As well as thinking about the tight cord, think about why you would have a long pushing stage (that is, baby in the birth canal a long time, not including the lighter pushy feelings pre-second stage.) What contributed to a long second stage with your others? What do you think might cause a long pushing stage in an unhindered birth?

I haven't had a long pushing stage since baby #1. My 2nd I pushed out in 20 minutes, my 3rd was 15 minutes.
I'm just trying to address every obnoxious little fear that my irrational brain can come up with so I can remind myself that the true answer to every fear is I will instinctually deal with it if it comes, and in all likelihood my baby will be born as normally and easily as my last 2.

[pamamidwife]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Or the fears of bad midwives will cause women to ask better questions of midwives they are considering hiring.

I so agree with this. The purer birth gets, the more women expect and want for their birth. The UC movement has made me a better midwife...in fact, it's oftentimes made me think about NOT doing midwifery any longer.

[shell024]

Originally Posted by pamamidwife

right after the baby is born, the fundus is usually at or right above the belly button.

I remember this! I remember looking down like, whoa! look at my belly! its like there's a smooshy ball in there, just sort of "hangin around" starting just at my belly button.

I am pretty sure that for the next birth, I wil prefer more time alone because I am almost certain that my inability to just LET GO AND BE, free of fear, free of hinderance was partly just because I knew dp was there. When I am alone, I dance freely, sing freely, dress freely, speak freely, move freely. When dp is around, while I am pretty outgoing and open around him there is still a shyness in me that is hard to explain. I can only dance in front of people who DONT know me or in front of a few "crazy" girlfriends who motivate me, lol. So, if there is that bit of reserve I have, I think it transfers to birth easily, even though during ds's birth it didn't occur to me at all that I'd be better off if NO ONE were there but me for the larger part of it all. That's just me though, maybe there are others who coud relate?

[loved]

Originally Posted by mama in the forest

What do you mean by this? Do you think women who birth alone are motivated by fear?

Some are.

It's one thing to be motivated by a desire to NOT have something happen. It's another to be motivated by a desire to HAVE something happen.

See the difference?
Pain pushes.
Vision pulls.

What worries me are those women who never get to the "vision" part of thier births.

[DreamsInDigital]

I was and am motivated to choose a UC because I was SO empowered by my last birth, which was my 3rd baby but my first homebirth attended by a midwife. It was incredibly empowering and amazing, save for one obnoxious thing that my midwife did during my pushing stage that took me SO far out of laborland and put my mind back in my body where it did not belong. It ruined the last 15 minutes of my birth.
By choosing a UC I can experience it completely the way it ought to be without anyone interfering.

[erin_brycesmom]

the fundus naturally follows the baby - every contraction as the baby descends takes up more of the "slack" from the uterus to help push the baby out.

um, yeah I get that. Why watch for it though? I thought that info was a given. What a random thing to have been brought up then. I thought it was supposed to be some kind of help in determining how long the cord was. Either way a cord can be any length and knowing that doesn't really tell you jack. When the head is out the fundus could be varying lengths away given the size of the rest of the baby. Does it matter anyhow?

ah well, I couldn't trust myself if I had the attitude that everything will always be fine if I just do nothing. Unfortunately that isn't always the case and I'd rather be prepared.

One way that I know that UC isn't the way it is meant to be for everyone is my strong uncontrolled desire to want to be a part of childbirth beyond my own. Why would I feel this way if many women weren't supposed to have other women with them during childbirth? Of course that doesn't mean there isn't room for UC too , I'm sure nobody thinks it is meant for everyone.

[pamamidwife]

Originally Posted by erin_brycesmom

One way that I know that UC isn't the way it is meant to be for everyone is my strong uncontrolled desire to want to be a part of childbirth beyond my own. Why would I feel this way if many women weren't supposed to have other women with them during childbirth? Of course that doesn't mean there isn't room for UC too , I'm sure nobody thinks it is meant for everyone.

we all know that birth is an incredibly special, sacred, magical time. to want to be a part of that - even if it's another person's sacred, magical time is somewhat normal. but, if we look at it like sex (because the two are so close physiologically), it's almost weird that we'd have people who would want to be a part of it - if it wasn't their experience, you know?

but, there are people out there.it's a dangerous line, because there is a huge rush from being in that atmosphere, yet as a care provider, we're really in a space that can do serious damage to the normal physiology that is meant to occur when birth happens naturally.

providers especially need to be cautious that another woman's birth experience doesn't become their source of power, natural high, or ability to boast.

hope it makes sense what I'm saying here. I don't disagree that UC birth isn't for everyone, but just because everyone and their dog wants to see a birth (it seems like everyone shows up at births these days to watch), it doesn't necessarily mean that historically, evolutionarily, or even physiogically we're made to have an audience.

[pamamidwife]

oh and erin - about the fundus thing...I was responding your post when you posted:

How does one know if the fundus is following the baby? Is this a visual thing from the outside? Just curious because none of that was visible because of the position I was pushing in.

were you not asking a question there?

[mwherbs]

I don't think that most of us are motivated to be in the same room while someone else is having sex in this country- but there is no denying the cross cultural and timeless presence of other women attending births-
in places and in times where women haven't read about birth- how is/was the information conveyed about safety and what is normal? usually instructions and information is/was taught in some timely fashion like prodromal labor... or when the birth hut is made.... just like education about breastfeeding- women and babies just nursed- how was it made easy? by access to other women doing the same thing- you had daily reminders of positioning and timing because you would see others nursing all the time - while doing your daily work side by side... and when it is important to you or of interest like when you are pregnant you observe more how other women do things...
I think that our senses have been hi-jacked by industry wearing the guise of cultural informant - the majority of birthing women going to hospitals just like the birth hut but the information is not there and that end of things is not being held up , I do think that all those women are following forms of intuition of being with others in a place that is felt to be "safest" to give birth just as women who follow other intuition to stay away from those places. or who birth alone..




but I do agree with Pam about this-----
"providers especially need to be cautious that another woman's birth experience doesn't become their source of power, natural high, or ability to boast."

[erin_brycesmom]

but, there are people out there.it's a dangerous line, because there is a huge rush from being in that atmosphere, yet as a care provider, we're really in a space that can do serious damage to the normal physiology that is meant to occur when birth happens naturally.

if the right care provider is chosen, I wonder how much damage can be done by her being there? I wonder if we would worry so much about the damage of another women being present for childbirth if childbirth hadn't gotten so far of track in America today. I personally don't think birth and sex are the same in as many regards. For one thing for sex to happen (in the traditional sense) a partner has to be present. Birth can happen alone. If sex is not meant to be alone, is birth also not meant to be alone? In todays world there are many times when the partner who had sex with the woman won't be available for the birth. I know for me, I went into the birth thinking that I wanted the birth to be just my dh and I but I learned the hard way that my dh actually made things worse for me. Mostly because he had a lot to learn about childbirth but also because he isn't a woman and just didn't understand it the way that another woman does. Fast forward to birth number 2, with my doula present it was a million times better. I looked to my dh for a different kind of support because I also had the support of another woman. For both of the births I did have a strong desire that no one else be present. That isn't to say that one day my dh and I won't be able to do it alone, but we are both trying to overcome the effects of the modern view of childbirth. We aren't living in culture of normal childbirth. I hope to see that change in future generations.

I can understand how a provider could get off on a sense of power from attending births but I guess the idealistic side of me thinks that doesn't happen much with the type of attendants that I would be interested in.