Discussion about UC birth - Page 3

[Kathryn]

What a great thread! I am constantly put down (even on here) for doing UP with triplets and planning a homebirth (even though not UC). It's very frustrating and annoying, but I just keep my head high and know that I am letting my body do what it does best.

[Coconut Chronicles]

:

[georgia]

fourlittlebirds, everything you wrote resonates with me (as usual )

just given up without someone there to disappoint.

Or to perform for...perform in the typical sense isn't how I mean it--but does anyone know what I'm talking about? I went into my last birth seriously planning to not call the mw...but my intuition said call. I guess I'm okay that I did call (baby was malpresentation, whole 'nother story), but, when one has planned to be uninhibited, and then there's someone in the house, it's just different. Even though I only saw mw like two times during my whole 13 hour labor, I remember thinking, oh, no, what if it's another "false alarm," and she had to drive all the way out here for nothing? I wish things would start back up...GRRRR. This really annoys me that I was so concerned with the mw when I could have been just tuned into myself and baby : Maybe I was really just disappointed with myself that I'd called her out? I don't know.

[lactivist]

I can totally relate to that feeling of performing. I was deep in transition with my second in the bathroom in our relatively small apartment. The midwives were standing in the door of my daughter's room laughing and chatting with her. It pulled my focus out of me and made me really stressed out. I thought they were attending me not my daughter. Of course I wanted them to be hands off but it was just this really weird moment. I was all alone in the bathroom laboring out my baby and everyone else was partying in my daughter's room. I was bitter and resentful. I never would have had any of those feelings if I hadn't had the expectation of midwifery care. When in labor with my third I purposely sent everyone off to bed so I could just focus inward. I was so much more in touch with what was going on, never got that out of control transition feeling and just rolled along with my labor as it progressed. No expectations, no disappointment.
Wendi

[mwherbs]

forlittlebirds wrote>"I also had some "knowings". One of my favorites was during my last UC having a vision of the baby turning a minute or so before she was born. It wasn't a seen thing, or like a thought. It wasn't an inkling either. It was experiential, and it was certain. "

I wanted to acknowlege this I too had a similar experience with my first homebirth attended but unassisted. The way I had described the experience was I saw- felt her-a vision.
To lead into this my BOW broke in the tub and I thought the baby would be born soon after laboring all night so I woke up DH and the midwife I was looking out at them and wanting some help figuring out what to do, where to be- the kids were in our bed so did not even want to be in that room so I landed in the living room near a big floor pillow we have and I sat on the edge of it-- I had had 2 previous hospital births- and after being frustrated as to what to do- I layed on my back- flat on my back with my knees in the air-- what was this? a birth memory, this is how I had already given birth to 2 children-and the position my mom was in when she gave birth to me-- it felt right and weird at the same time- after a bit I decided how silly and moved to a squat then into hands and knees- right about at that shift I remembered the other births- sort of a flashback with feeling, experiential textures- and I remembered my own birth(yes I know weird, and unexpected) in any case then moving on from that I saw-felt my daughter move spin inside of me and drop down I could see it without my eyes, and it was time to push deep and demanding and she crowned and it burned and I did not want to stop. i could have but didn't and pushed her out- DH and MW were in front of me and they did not make a move to help "catch the baby" I reached under myself and pulled her around up to the front as she came out - and moved from the semi-kneeling position to lay back on the pillow with her on me she pooped and she was breathing quickly. .

I had a UC after this birth and everthing was well with both of us but I did not have the same feeling of safety and abandon I had while haveing my attended but unassisted birth . DH is a good caring man and would do what ever I asked-- and in an emergency which I would have to identify or be unconsious for he would act approprately and get help or load me into the car and take me to help-- now maybe if I had never had previous hospial births that I had to -extensively recover from- maybe I would not have had the same concerns but I did and much of my mind before labor and in early labor was occupied with thinking about having to give up some control and accept that there were certain situaions where DH was going to be in a position of acting according to his best judgment which in medical views we widely differ- those situations did not arise. When our son did emerge I went with what was happening at the time walked around the house not finding a place to be- and ended up in a doorway pulled down with an overwhelming need to push I dropped into a squat and my deepest sense of not knowing how this baby was if he were dead or alive was though me- not the same see-feel experience it but it was deeply profound and painful and I was sure he was dead and it did not matter I resolved myself to that, I had to do the work at hand which was to not tear and to birth this baby alive or dead, I tell dh get things like the chux to put on the floor what he says the what? I say the blue thing- and he gets it and he is in awe because he can see me giving birth which I do slower this time and let him crown slowly and I stretch- all 12 lbs of him and no tear after having 2 epis and a tear with previous births- and he is fine totally fine but those dark moments are deeply in me. who knew , what I think about now is that even in Odent's birth center in the hospital-there was someone there to help those women gave birth in a comfortable well designed hospital setting seemingly unattended births but what they were mostly to use Pam's phrasing unassisted -attended births == but I even struggle with this wording because assistance comes in many forms like someone expereinced available to you to help as need be- or to listen to hear tones or to be reassuring maybe by just being a relaxed presence.
To be clear I think it is everywoman's right to choose where and how to give birth- UC to full on C each has it's own set of risk/benifit.

[huggerwocky]

Originally Posted by Kathryn

What a great thread! I am constantly put down (even on here) for doing UP with triplets and planning a homebirth (even though not UC). It's very frustrating and annoying, but I just keep my head high and know that I am letting my body do what it does best.

What is UP?

[stellimamo]

unassisted pregnancy- no provider prenatal care.

[huggerwocky]

Originally Posted by stellimamo

unassisted pregnancy- no provider prenatal care.

Thanks

[mwherbs]

if this appears 2 times sorry I erase one but on my computer it is not showing up- here goes--- now I see two this is what the edit...

[mama in the forest]

So now I've got a question:

Is UC now considered possible WITH a midwife present? This is a new concept for me. I had always thought unassisted childbirth was a private affair between mother & family. What are the definitions?

So.....what were my births? There was no midwife present, just myself & my family. Was it UC or was it moved into another category?

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by mwherbs

I wanted to acknowlege this I too had a similar experience with my first homebirth attended but unassisted. The way I had described the experience was I saw- felt her-a vision. [...] I had a UC after this birth and everthing was well with both of us but I did not have the same feeling of safety and abandon I had while haveing my attended but unassisted birth. [...] my deepest sense of not knowing how this baby was if he were dead or alive was though me- not the same see-feel experience it but it was deeply profound and painful and I was sure he was dead [...] and he is fine totally fine but those dark moments are deeply in me.

You're an excellent example of how that balance between the need for privacy and the need for security (and what is necessary for those both to be obtained) is different for every woman. If I remember correctly, your decision to UC was made primarily on the basis of not having access to decent midwifery care, rather than a deep belief that giving birth without a medical attendant was best for you. There's no question that the mother's psychological and emotional state is one of the most important factors in a good outcome and her satisfaction with the birth.

It's also, clearly, one factor in how deeply she's able to access her intuition. For you, fear obscured that. For me, inhibition and distraction did. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to assert that UC = access to intuition, only that for women who are made inhibited and distracted and insecure by the presence of a professional birth attendant, giving birth in privacy means those barriers are not in the way.

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by mama in the forest

Is UC now considered possible WITH a midwife present? This is a new concept for me. I had always thought unassisted childbirth was a private affair between mother & family. What are the definitions?

I've always been uncomfortable with the term "unassisted birth" because it can cover so many different kinds of situations. Laura Shanley originally used it to mean that the woman gives birth instinctively with no one directing her or monitoring her, and that there is no medical attendant present specifically for the purpose of being a medical attendant. Some people choose to take one or the other or those parts out of the definition, and still call it "unassisted". In other words, I've seen births called unassisted if there was a professional birth attendant there but she sat on her hands for the most part. I've also seen births called unassisted in which there was no professional birth attendant present but the father or other non-professionals acted in the role of midwife. For the purposes of this forum and the UC roll call, though, we go with Laura's definition just because that's what we're all there for. Nobody's there talking about their unassisted birth with a midwife, it's just tacitly understood that that's not really what the forum is for.

Just so there was no confusion, Pam pointed out that she did not intend for this thread to be only about births that are just literally unassisted, but also unattended by medical/birth professionals.

Is that confusing enough?

[shell024]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

Can the UC mamas address the question of a first birth? Some of the commentary is about how you know how you react and respond in labor--not exactly something a first time mama knows.

I had a UC for my first birth. Originally, I was going to birth at the general hospital in SF. Each prenatal (lol, two total) was a drag. I was nauseous each time and had to wait forever in the crowded waiting rooms. I had read one pg book (Girlfriend's Guide to Pregnancy) and was pretty certain that labor was going to hurt a lot and that there was the 50/50 chance I'd want meds, but it was just something I was going to have to deal with. I tuned out the horror stories and was secretely addicted to A Baby Story, even though it had me anxious and at the edge of my seat each show full of tension. I decided that watching that show was not doing my soul any good but I was craving to see births and couldnt afford the dvds and stuff of natural or uncensored births. So...the addiction continued and I had this negative image of birth forming in the back of my mind.

I searched online for a place to chat about pregnancy and found MDC I puttered around here through the various forums and my entire focus shifted. I was changing my lifestyle little by little. By 6 months, I came across the fiorum title "unassisted childbirth" and I was very intrigued. In the back of my mind something clicked, like "ooh! I want to do that!" but then immediately the negative thoughts took over. "but how? Is that possible? Legal? what about the pain, or if you want drugs? who will help me? No no no, this is my first birth and I dont know what birth is like. lovely thought, but nope, not for me."

I read through the forum and was amazed at all these women who birth in their homes, with no one there but their families! I read through various "what if" questions that others asked, and finally posted my first question. Here--> (asking if there were other mamas who had a UC for their 1st) http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=289803 (wow, that was interesting going back in time and reading what I wrote and realizing how much my views have evolved from uncertainty to confidence!)

So I kept reading, through websites, books and birth stories (the birth stories made me determined to have a UC, the websites info and books and the UC mamas here at MDC helped dispell my fears.

FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN is a key facor for first time mamas wanting/planning a UC and it took a lot to reprogram my preconceptions of birth enough that I was confident, excited, and certain that I'd plan and have a UC.

Reading about each complication, what causes it, how to prevent it, how to treat it, when to get help were very helpful *for me* (for others it might just instill more fear/anxiety). When I realized that most complications are cause by poor nutrition, high toxicity in mother's environment, family history, and of course, by unnecessary interventions, I calmed down a bit about "complications". I learned that a complication to one person was nothing to fuss over to another.

Once I dispelled most fears, I blocked out any outside negativity and kept reading positive UC stories, and then for awhile, I just stopped researching so that I could relax and focus on myself and the baby. Fears would come up here and there between dp or I (or having a conversation with a skeptic would spark something in me) and I'd do a little more research.

As a first time mama, I had to block out any comments about "not knowing what I was getting into" etc etc..."when you're in labor you'll change your mind" blah blah.

As my whole lifestyle was changing (eliminating household toxics, food toxics, etc, not letting the system control me, taking responsibility for all of my choices, etc) it was easier for me to stay firm in my decision.

Once I birthed, it was a huge sigh of relief, thankfulness, and joy in knowing that all subsequent births can be planned this way, and instead I can say "I did it last time, and will do it this time."

Birth story---> http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=338648

[shell024]

I know that post was pretty long, but I just wanted to add:

During the actual labor, I handled it like I do when I have to "deal" with something similar (like intense menstrual cramps but a prolonged version, or running for soccer practice much further than I would have liked to). I get "mopey" and grumpy, but persist. Kina martyrish I guess. Just kept breathing deep breaths and moving my hips around a lot.

Looking back, it might have been nice to have had a doula there to say "yes its all normal" as a pp mentioned, and to give me emotional encouragment (dp is great, but sometimes you just want someone else to cheer you up) and to help clean up afterwards, but I'm not sure it would have been worth the possible inhinderance. I am definitely one who felt "watched" sometimes even with dp, even though I didnt acknowledge it at the time. I did notice though that when he left the room, I could concentrate easier and just relax, not worrying what I look/sound like. Sometimes I cant even pee until he leaves the bathroom (just sometimes...but I cant for the life of me poop in front of him ) so I dunno how adding another person would have changed the equation. Maybe labor would have stalled a bit more? Maybe it would have helped me to think out of the box, look to someone else for a moment and actually speed things along? : Who knows?

For the next birth, I will probably have someone whom I am very comfortable "unloading problems on" nearby for when I need to vent during labor to release any emotional blocks. My mom or SIL might be that person, and they will know that I do NOT want ANY negativity at that time, and DO NOT ask if I want to go to the hospital. If I feel so inclined I will say so. That same person, or someone else will probably be helping with ds and clean up afterwards.

[sapphire_chan]

I remember your story Shell. Thank you for summarizing the thoughts behind it so well.

[scheelimama]

UC is something I'm very interested in, but I must admit that I very much liked having a midwife present and am not sure that I would be strong enough to do it on my own. I relied heavily on her presence at the end both times.

[Briannasmom]

Originally Posted by scheelimama

UC is something I'm very interested in, but I must admit that I very much liked having a midwife present and am not sure that I would be strong enough to do it on my own. I relied heavily on her presence at the end both times.

Me too, on all counts. I LOVED my midwife - felt a deep spiritual connection with her.

I have a question: In the earlier posts on this thread, there was some talk of an UC being "erotic." Can you explain this? I read Spiritual Midwifery and know that some women feel orgasmic and such - is this what you mean?

[mwherbs]

fourlittlebirths wrote>"You're an excellent example of how that balance between the need for privacy and the need for security (and what is necessary for those both to be obtained) is different for every woman. If I remember correctly, your decision to UC was made primarily on the basis of not having access to decent midwifery care, rather than a deep belief that giving birth without a medical attendant was best for you. There's no question that the mother's psychological and emotional state is one of the most important factors in a good outcome and her satisfaction with the birth."


my choice was limited- basically no midwives in the area for more than 200 miles or more in any direction but I also had been thinking of going for perfection , the last birth was easy enough an I had did it on my own, I had a coulple picky little things about my midwife that on reflection were nothing like-- why didn't she know I wanted help figuring out what to do- you know read my mind... very funny when I think about it now.but they wre things on my mind then like well I can do without someone who doesn't know what I am thinking anyway...
we were living in a small one bedroom home(DH, pregnant me and 3 kids) and although a friend had offered to come stay I could not imagine living with another person in our house for possibly weeks on end.
But there was also no question in my mind that I would ever willingly step foot into another hospital as long as I was consious or alive, this was one of the conflicts I had to come to terms with that DH would transfer me that he would act to his conscience and I really couldn't control that, so I guess I could not count on his judgment which as I am thinking about it now added to my unease- so much responsibility to be intellectually there. I also would not have considered my past midwife nor midwives in general to be "medical care providers" at that time. although I do think that now it is a fitting term because midwives are asked to do so many medical things by clients and regulations, heck then we were illegal midwives and all of us were prepared to do it alone if we had to ...
My UC birth has been very hard for me to process and come to terms with and we are talking now 18 years have gone by, I think that this is partly due to lack of shared experience- so people who would never have had a uc cannot understand their opions are of course I should have been scared- but that is not it because that is not where I was starting from I felt fully capable and trusting or atleast that is what I though at the time

[cottonwood]

Mwherbs, I'm truly sorry that this was your experience. And I can also say that it is incredibly atypical for a planned and desired unassisted birth, so I'm inclined to look for reasons why it might have been so. It sounds as if you were under some pressure to justify your lack of options to yourself, and under some stress (in labor no less) over your husband's actions should the need for help arise. This is not to minimize your experience of it as negative, at all, but it just really sounds to me like you were not in a secure situation. Which is really the point of my mention of the balance of the need of privacy and the need for security.

Originally Posted by Briannasmom

In the earlier posts on this thread, there was some talk of an UC being "erotic." Can you explain this? I read Spiritual Midwifery and know that some women feel orgasmic and such - is this what you mean?

Sure. There is also birth that is sexual, sensual, pleasurable, ecstatic (or, "ec stasis" as Sarah Buckley points out, "outside our usual state", an altered state of consciousness.) I think Pam was probably thinking of all these things.

For myself, I always think of Audre Lorde's essay "The Uses of the Erotic". She wrote of it: "I believe in the erotic and I believe in it as an enlightening force within our lives as women. I have become clearer about the distinctions between the erotic and other apparently similar forces. We tend to think of the erotic as an easy, tantalizing sexual arousal. I speak of the erotic as the deepest life force, a force which moves us toward living in a fundamental way. And when I say living I mean it as that force which moves us toward what will accomplish real positive change."

There is such a focus on arousal by another person and ultimately orgasm as the goal of sexuality in our culture, and I think this may be one reason women reject the idea of birth as sexual. Birth is regarded as too "pure" (and often too social) to entertain the idea of that. But if our sexuality is about more than orgasm... and knowing that birth is biologically a sexually hormonal process... then that opens up things quite a bit, doesn't it?

The question then becomes: assuming that an expression of birth as erotic or sexual is normal and desired, how realistic is to expect that in a social birth?

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by scheelimama

UC is something I'm very interested in, but I must admit that I very much liked having a midwife present and am not sure that I would be strong enough to do it on my own. I relied heavily on her presence at the end both times.

What is it about UC you're drawn to?