Preschool orientation tonight--no warm fuzzy feelings

[DQMama]

I hope to get this off my chest because I am fighting back tears. We have enrolled ds in our church preschool and we had orientation tonight. I did not get a warm fuzzy feeling from his teacher. I really wanted her to be someone my ds would feel safe with and maybe even loved by. The director gave a speech and I did get a good feeling from her but she is not the one who will be interacting with my baby (3 years old) twice a week for 2 hrs 45 min.

It wasn't anything the teacher said. In fact the director said the same things. The teacher just rubbed me the wrong way. She seemed to be a know it all, as in, we know your kids better than you do. We know what is best, leave it to us. For example, I was told at the initial info meeting back in December that we could walk the kids in the first week. The teacher said we could not do that and she didn't really beat around the bush telling us. She was pretty blunt. I guess I can see why, I mean they don't want 14 whole families in the classroom and parents lingering and maybe kids crying and causing other kids to cry. It would disrupt the initial routine they are trying to set up on the first day. But I can't get over the fact that he is my baby. Please help me feel better about this.

Also they use time outs which I understand they have to do with 14 kids in one room. But I almost cried when the teacher brought it up, picturing this woman putting my baby in a time out.

This is considered one of the top preschools in our area. All of the teachers have teaching degrees, which I thought was really important, being a former teacher, but now I'm thinking it doesn't matter. I know at least a dozen people who have kids there and LOVE it but now I'm realizing that none of them are even close to AP.

There is nothing wrong with the preschool. I think it is just me. Has anyone else had that experience?

Thanks for listening and helping me work out my feelings.

[Mountaingirl3]

I'm sorry! Preschool teachers should exude warm fuzzies, right? It is totally normal that you don't want to hand your child over to someone unless they consider him precious and feel lucky to be teaching him.

Maybe you could ask about the time outs. Are they obviously a punishment, or does the teacher say, "John, it seems like you could use a little space. Would you come with me to have a quiet time?" or something like that?

It's not one teacher with 14, is it? My dd's preschool has two teachers and 14, and they do all positive discipline. If a child needs one on one for a few minutes, it's not a problem--the other teacher is there.

[DQMama]

Originally Posted by Mountaingirl3

I'm sorry! Preschool teachers should exude warm fuzzies, right? It is totally normal that you don't want to hand your child over to someone unless they consider him precious and feel lucky to be teaching him.

You are so sweet to take the time to respond. That is it exactly!!! I used to teach and I wish I had understood that concept. Not that I didn't love the kids but I don't think I went out of my way to convey it to the parents. I was pretty businesslike. But I was young...now that I have my own kids it will be different when I go back to teaching.

The teacher has an assistant but it was not clear tonight what her role is. Obviously she helps out with the kids, I know, but they weren't specific.

I will ask about the time outs. There is a student orientation in the morning. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll be sure to bring it up.

[angelpie545]

Who was it that told you that you can walk in with your children? I would have a meeting with the director if possible, and express your concerns to her. Unfortunately sometimes when some teachers spend years and years preparing for their jobs they sometimes get a superiority complex, as in "I have all the education, I'm the expert" kind of thing. I depise that kind of thinking, because in my mind when it comes to children, experience is the best teacher. While education is extremely important, I think it is equally important that teachers recognize that they need to be humble and listen to the parents, because while they may be the "expert" on educational programs, the parent is the expert on the child.

[DQMama]

I don't remember. I just remember walking away from the meeting thinking, well good, I won't be the only one taking him in the first week since they were the ones who suggested it. A couple of people spoke that night and if I recall correctly, one of them was this woman he ended up getting for a teacher. She probably wasn't the one who said it though.

They really have this whole "no parents in the classroom" thing worked out. Although they stressed that they have an open door policy and parents are always allowed, this is their plan for the first day: If you are anxious about how your child is doing, you can go through the carpool line and let your child out. Then you can park and "sneak" in through the main entrance where they will serve coffee and doughnuts. If you are really worried, Mrs. Whoever will go to the class, check on your child, and report back. She will even take first-day photos for you!

This might be helpful for the parents, but how does it benefit the nervous child exactly?

[aniT]

Originally Posted by DQMama

If you are anxious about how your child is doing, you can go through the carpool line and let your child out.

Whoa.. WTH? Please tell me they do NOT expect you to drop your THREE YEAR OLD child off at the curb!!

It bothered me enough that I had to do this with my older daughter when she was K, but a THREE YEAR OLD! I don't care if there is an adult there to supervise. Does this adult walk each child into the school and or classroom? A child that age should be walked into the classroom.

That alone would have me pulling my child out.

[DQMama]

Originally Posted by aniT

Whoa.. WTH? Please tell me they do NOT expect you to drop your THREE YEAR OLD child off at the curb!!

It bothered me enough that I had to do this with my older daughter when she was K, but a THREE YEAR OLD! I don't care if there is an adult there to supervise. Does this adult walk each child into the school and or classroom? A child that age should be walked into the classroom.

That alone would have me pulling my child out.

I just received an email from a friend whose child was in last year. She said technically you can walk them in but as I said, they encourage you not to. They have three people who help the kids out and walk them in. Two people take kids out of their cars and a third waits until they have a small group and then they walk them in a group to the class. They went over the process and I felt comfortable that he would be safe, although not necessarily feel secure.

All of the big preschools around here do that. I may end up just taking him in though. I don't know, I don't even really want to send him at all, but dh has been insisting.

[Thalia the Muse]

If this helps at all to hear, my daughter started kindergarten at the beginning of August. On the first day, the other teacher whose class was starting showed up early, chatted with all the parents, hugged all the kids, etc. She was just really warm and bubbly.

My daughter's teacher showed up right before they needed to go in and herded the kids off, and I left feeling like my daughter didn't get the GOOD teacher, that her teacher would be cold and not kind to the kids and not communicate well -- I really went off to work brooding about it!

But she's been there a month now and you know what? Her teacher is GREAT! My daughter LOVES her and is really excited about learning, and I've seen how she handles the "difficult" little boy in the class, and she's terrific with him and with all the kids. My first day reaction was totally off-base, and I think it was mostly because I was a little nervous about starting DD at a new school, etc. It was about my feelings, not about the teacher, you know? And I'm so glad I didn't freak out about it more than I did, because it would have been over nothing, and I think it would have made it harder for my little girl.

[Ellien C]

I have a couple of thoughts - it could be that the teacher is coming on strong in the beginning to really set the ground rules. You may find that she loosen's up as the year goes on. She may just want to set very firm boundaries in the beginning so expectations are clear.

In my area, the "best" pre-schools tend to have very rigid routines, clear developmental goals and a strong curriculum that they follow.
I don't send my DD to the "best." I send her to a second tier school, the teachers clearly have less education, everything is a good bit more flexible and less formal. I'm happy with the looser structure, college students and grandmothers who like children, mothers who work there so their kids can attend etc. The Director has been there for over 15 years and is excellent.
This works for me and is more in-line with the experience I want her to have in the early years.

The not-walking kids in thing sounds weird to me as does the part where they check on the kid and report back, but it may have something to do with controlling begining of year pandemonium. This may be something that loosens up as the year goes on.

I second the idea of asking about time-outs. My experience is that a lot of pre-schools promote the idea of time-out to parents because it's viewed by parents as a good thing - they aren't using hitting or something else. But some schools apply it more like a time to regroup than a punishment. They call it time out because that's what parents know. The written discipline policy at my school is no punishments (yeah for the) but they do use time outs (rarely).

In my state it is legal to hit children so schools that use the "progressive" measure of time-out tend to promote that.

[DQMama]

Originally Posted by Ellien C

In my state it is legal to hit children so schools that use the "progressive" measure of time-out tend to promote that.

OMG I must be living under a rock because I had no idea corporal punishment was still legal in this country! Is it also acceptable to strike your spouse or your employee in your state??? I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be if it is legal to strike a child:

Thalia--I agree that part of my attitude toward the teacher is definitely just me, but I used to teach and I know her type. She would be a great middle school teacher but I just don't feel she is very nuturing for the preschool set. I said only positive things in front of my son. My husband and I discussed it after he was in bed but other than that we have smiled and stayed upbeat while talking about her.

Today they had student orientation and the teacher requested that at some point during the hour the kids use the bathroom and wash their hands without assistance. Ds did it! With us cheering him on every step of the way and other parents looking at us like we were nuts I guess their kids have been doing that stuff for a while but ds is just not very "independent" for his age. Preschool will probably change that in some ways, but I imagine he will get more clingy for a while. He is already going through a stage where he says "ma-ma" and whines, because that is what dd does. I hope preschool does not make him feel even more insecure than he already does with the new baby

[bobandjess99]

Originally Posted by DQMama

OMG I must be living under a rock because I had no idea corporal punishment was still legal in this country! Is it also acceptable to strike your spouse or your employee in your state??? I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be if it is legal to strike a child:

LOL, children aren't PEOPLE!! What made you think you should treat CHILDREN humanely? :

Okay, obviously sarcasm here!

[Ellien C]

Originally Posted by DQMama

OMG I must be living under a rock because I had no idea corporal punishment was still legal in this country! Is it also acceptable to strike your spouse or your employee in your state??? I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be if it is legal to strike a child:

I know how you feel. I did NOT grow up here and it was shocking to me. To be honest though I don't see corporal punishment being used in any of the urban areas or population centers. It seems to be confined to rural areas and to religious schools. Each pre-school must clearly state the discipline policy so you know what you're getting into.

Here is some more information on state laws re: hitting children at school.
http://www.stophitting.com/disatscho...tesBanning.php

[jlpumkin]

I just wanted to say that I really have problems with what feels like limited access to your own child. I think instead of trying to keep parents from the room they should be educating parents on a good goodbye - assure will be back, introduce activity etc. Not to sound snarky but I won't even take my dog to a vet that won't allow me in the backroom to see what's going on.
Good luck with whatever you chose to do.

[bellini'smama]

I am a preschool teacher and do AP with dd (2 years old).

Let me first say that I am concerned by what you are describing. We would never let anyone drop his or her child off at the curb. We see our role as only half the equation. Really a partnership with the families to give the child the best we can. So if parents do don’t come in every morning and we speak to them, how are we going to get to know them. And we want info, how are things going for them as parents, did their child sleep well the night before. We want to tell them how it is going at school and the beginning of the year is when we do this the most, though we always want to hear from parents and talk to them about their child. But in the beginning we are building new relationships, so it is even more important.

Also let me say that we work hard at balancing what an individual child needs with what the group needs. We have 12 children and 2 co teachers, but if we try to have the children fit the mold of the school, instead of the school trying to meet the needs of the children that are in front of us now, then we would be missing the whole point.

We expect parents to bring their concerns to us and yes, they don’t always know why we do the things we do, but we problem solve to make it work. Actually what we do a lot of is parent education, such as helping parent with discipline. When help them understand what a child is doing when his is still learning and why we frame things like hitting and such as still learning, we do stop children from hurting each other and from name calling, all that and give them strong words to communicate feelings instead, like “I’m still using that toy.” “Hitting hurts!” “I want a turn.” “I’m mad.”

We have no time-outs, we love Alfie Kohn and others like him who see the child as someone still learning, and questioning and trying out the world, so instead of punishments, they need help and support, learning safer and better ways to express what they need and what they feel. And one of our big goals for all the children is to see the other person in the conflict, to realize he or she has feelings and ideas and is still learning too.

I would also stress that if it weren’t a great school, (and I don’t mean great because it is prestigious or teaches them to read!) in my opinion then young children do not need school.

And in response to PP a 5 year old and a 3-½ year old is very different developmentally. Children grow and change so much doing that time and 5 year olds can handle separation and other things so much easier.

Listen to what you are feeling, and I applaud you for not letting your feelings mess up your child’s experience, no matter what you end up deciding. Good luck, I think it can be pretty gut wrenching trying to do our best for our kids.

Aimee

[bethwl]

My daughter is 3 and the drop-off policy is to go through the car line and a teacher comes to the door and opens the door and takes the child out of their car seat and walks them into the classroom. It is not always her own teachers, but they all are very friendly and talk to the child and help them put their back packs on and say "by mommy, have a good day!" or something like that. I don't see this as cold, but rather for the safety of the children and to reduce chaos. The parking lot is very small and shared by a Montessori school adjacent to dd's school. There simply would not be enough spaces for everyone to park and walk through the lot, and it would increase drop-off time significantly. Even people who walk their children to school are met at the door (they have three doors and different doors are used for different age groups) and then the child is escorted to their classroom.

[DQMama]

Originally Posted by bellini'smama

Let me first say that I am concerned by what you are describing. We would never let anyone drop his or her child off at the curb. We see our role as only half the equation. Really a partnership with the families to give the child the best we can. So if parents do don’t come in every morning and we speak to them, how are we going to get to know them. And we want info, how are things going for them as parents, did their child sleep well the night before. We want to tell them how it is going at school and the beginning of the year is when we do this the most, though we always want to hear from parents and talk to them about their child. But in the beginning we are building new relationships, so it is even more important.

Interesting. Most of the preschools around here do this. It is touted as "service" that they provide. I guess I should clarify, we live in a fast paced area with lots of traffic, everyone in a hurry, etc. So that's probably why it is so popular. I never thought it was weird until it was MY child I had to do it with, you know?

But you bring up a really really good point. I used to teach and I am all about parent teacher communication. It would be nice to just stick my head in the door in the morning and say to the teacher, hi, he had a rough night, let me know how the day goes, see you in a few hours. I guess if he has a rough night I can take him in. Techincally we can take him in but I hope I will be greeted warmly. I guess if I'm not, I can always withdraw him. Switching schools mid year is not really an option here though since schools usually fill up the January or February before. So if I take him out, that would be it for the year.

Well, I'll post back and let everyone know how tomorrow goes. If he is willing to get out of the car without crying or looking like he needs to cry, then I will just let him go. If he looks upset I will jump out and walk in with him (dh will be with us for the first day). Thanks for all the input.

[cinnamonamon]

Good luck, mama! What a difficult situation; I hope you are treated kindly as you provide your son with the support he needs.

[Kate'smommy]

When my ds started K last week, the teacher had sent a note saying it was best to drop him off at the door. I prepared him for that, and then every single parent went inside the classroom and I ended up being the first one told by my child to leave. At our church preschool, we were told we were welcome to stay for the first half hour every day if we chose and drop in any other time. One mom stayed the entire first day. We were absolutely required to walk our children into the building to the classroom door for safety. I would have a serious problem with a teacher who told me I was not allowed to come inside the classroom. I would do what I thought was best for my child, regardless what the teacher prefers.
As for time outs, our preschool and K use them very sparingly, when one child hits another or ignores multiple warnings. I think it's appropriate in that situation because I believe in consequences that don't involve physical punishment or verbal abuse. I would just want to know when the time outs are used for, how long the child must sit, and what happens if they refuse. I want them to call me rather than physically force my child to sit.

[oceanbaby]

Originally Posted by jlpumkin

I just wanted to say that I really have problems with what feels like limited access to your own child. I think instead of trying to keep parents from the room they should be educating parents on a good goodbye - assure will be back, introduce activity etc. Not to sound snarky but I won't even take my dog to a vet that won't allow me in the backroom to see what's going on.
Good luck with whatever you chose to do.

I couldn't agree more. I didn't even consider a preschool that didn't allow parents to stay as long as they wanted to whenever they wanted to. It was pretty much one of my first questions when I was checking them out. I felt it showed tremendous disrespect to the parent/child bond. Ds's preschool had 15 kids and two teachers, and parents could stay whenever they wanted to. It was never chaotic or a problem in the slightest. In fact, most parents spent at least 10-15 minutes there each morning playing with their kid, pushing them on the swing, chatting, reading to a group of kids, whatever. It had a nice community feel to it, and is in fact the thing I miss the most.

Remember, you are allowed to change your mind. Go with your gut. Everyone's definition of what a "top" preschool is is going to be different. My SIL has her dd in what is supposed to be some great preschool, but I went to the open house and it was not my cup of tea. There is no great rush why your 3yo has to be in preschool, especially when you aren't happy about the environment.

Edited to add: We also live in a big city, and sometimes there were parking issues. The service provided by ds's preschool was that if we called them they were happy to come meet us at the car to bring the student in or out. I did this several times when ds2 was asleep in the car. But like a pp mentioned, the few minutes spent chatting with the teacher is invaluable communication about how things are going for your child.

[PatchyMama]

We live in a big city as well, but I would be totally turned off by "drop your kid at the curb". I just could not do that. One of the reasons I love my DDs school is that both me and her sister can walk her in. Her teacher always comes over to say hi to her individually. The first 15 minutes of class is "journal" time (they color, write, etc) .... and the teacher totally welcomes my 22 month old to sit at the table with them and color. We are welcome to stay if we would like but I try to get out of there before journal time is over so that we do not interrupt the class.

Oh my DDs class is a total of 12 students (1 teacher and 1 parent volunteer). They would never use time out thankfully, but honestly in 3 years we have been there I have never even seen a time where a time out would be needed.


Anyway all of that to agree with the other posters that I would be worried about the lack of access to your child and if you have a bad feeling I woudl listen to it.