Grrr, why do people think it's pain free?

[Cherries10700]

Blood is boiling...

I was on another board and someone brought up Circ. One mom said...
"You know they do give a local so it isnt painful."

Guess what she had done to her son... :

Thanks for letting me vent.

[SleeplessMommy]

I had three novacaine injections when I had a mole removed from my face. They were very painfull. Slightly worse than the injections at the dentist office. So yes, it will still be painful for a baby, even if the doc "uses an anesthetic."

[Eman'smom]

Because if you don't believe it's painfree it makes you a monster.

[Cherries10700]

Originally Posted by Eman'smom

Because if you don't believe it's painfree it makes you a monster.

Ahhh! Good thinking.

I need to step away from these women lmao! They are saying Circ is not cosmetic, it's for medical reasons... I'm going in circles...

[baybee]

Even if it was possible to make the surgery itself pain free, the painful erections, painful intercourse and painful restoration process that thousands of men endure have to be factored into this needless, irreversible, and mutilating surgery.

One of my clients told me that she had no regrets about circumcising because it's possible to restore it later in life if he wants. I think any mother who has that idea should spend a month reading the posts on the restore list about what it's like to try to stretch skin to cover the glans. The nerve endings and blood supply are gone forever, of course. There are many other hidden pains from circumcision e.g. broken marriages, violence, emotional costs, insecurities, failed breastfeeding, etc.

Circumcision is a pain that keeps on giving and giving.
Baybee

[~Megan~]

Because how could it be painful and docs still do it? We ASSUME that doctors must make it painfree otherwise why would it ever be done? We ASSUME that the doctors are there to protect our children and keep them safe.

We've all, except the lucky few who research it, have been totally duped.

[DocsNemesis]

Very true. My dh has wondered if his psychological problems (he has bad panic attacks) could have come from his being circumcised as a newborn. There is no way to know, of course, but he has had panic attacks for as long as he can remember and generally there is some sort of trigger that brings them on-a very stressful, emotional event. He cant think of anything like that, niether can his mom, but he was circ'd at less than 24 hours old with no pain meds. That seems pretty darned traumatic to me!
Doctors are concidered Gods or something these days. Most of the people I know blindly follow what they say. Of course, I think mostly of childbirth (you're baby is too big to come out, so you need a cesarean, you're baby is in a bad position, so you need a cesarean, you're baby isnt coming out on my schedule, so you need a cesarean, induction, etc), but even with my regular care, I would have been in a lot of trouble if I have always blindly followed the doctor. Two years ago I was having headaches and the doc repeatedly told me they were migraines. Finally I went to the ER-turned out I have too much spinal cord fluid around my brain so it is constantly being compressed, and I could go blind. And then when another doc was treating this problem, I had told him I was trying to concieve and asked him if the meds were safe if I got preg. I was told yes, no problem. Well, I had enough sense to check it out myself. Turns out one was a category C and one was a category X!!! My poor baby would have ended up with birth defects and stuff.

[MommytoB]

My brother thinks it's pain free as a baby and he don't remember it but I'm wondering something of my bro because I heard that too tight circs which i'm for sure bro has can bring the 'scrotum' up towards the penile increase levels in testerone which can lead to 'excessive hair' well, my brother has some weird hair on the back of him when he has to get his haircut our mom's do our haircutting for free. So he takes off his shirt so he has way 'thick hair right along his back that reminds me of 'big foot hair because it's thick thick and in patches just in his lower back region plus he 'wears' way way baggy boxers it's just obvious.

My brother as a baby had seziures even when he didn't have a fever and my brother had 'asthma reactions til he was 5 then it went away but now at 25 his asthma reactions are starting to come back again. My brother was vaxed and circ . Plus, my brother has 'quite a temper too which I heard is also common in elevated testerone & a possiblity if high testerone might make men 'infertile'.

Correct me if I'm wrong I just heard of this somewhere.

[dynamohumm6]

Originally Posted by baybee

One of my clients told me that she had no regrets about circumcising because it's possible to restore it later in life if he wants.

Seriously, if this is the attitude that a parent is going to take, why not just flip it and NOT circ because it is possible to have it done later in life??! ::

It's much easier to take something away than it is to put something back once it's been removed.

[wackynaturelady]

The worst I have heard was from a pediatrician we were interviewing when I was pg with my youngest. We were still in disagreement about circing, (I wanted intact, DH wanted circ), but had basically compromised already with the name thing, (DH gets to pick his name, I pick his foreskin status). Anyway, I could already tell the guy was relatively wacky because of other things, but we thought maybe he was just a bit eccentric, but maybe still OK.

Anyway, I asked him about how he was with caring for intact penises and he started ranting for about 20 minutes (literally) while people waited for him to see their sick children, about why we should circ. He claimed he wouldn't have gone there if we were in agreement, (as if)!
The saddest part was..
Part of his big argument was that human newborns are 'totally pathetic creatures' who- get this- cannot feel pain in any extremeties. He went on to explain that newborns have limited sensations that they are capable of feeling, such as hunger, because they can only experience what is absolutely necessary for survival. It was just bizarre, but so sad that I'm sure that some people believe him. I argued that I have watched my kids as infants get hurt and they most certainly reacted. He told me more or less that I was wrong, that when being circ'd they are really only crying for their pacifiers and if you give them a pacifier with sugar on it, they are happy as can be. It was horrific.

They also gave me a formula company diaper bag, complete with formula, just for coming in and interviewing , despite the fact that I said I would exlusively breastfeed, (not to get off topic, just another obnoxious aspect of their office). Needless to say, he's not our ped. As a footnote, he is no longer at his office. It is now occupied, as it turns out, by our now-marriage counselor. I hope he went out of business!

Just had to throw that in, because I agree with OP that it is so upsetting that people buy this stuff. It is common sense. No one would ever condone someone physically hurting a newborn in any other way because it would be wrong to hurt them, but somehow, cutting off body parts is nothing! UGH!

[christifav]

Ugh...the "pain free" and "won't remember it" arguments are the worst!

Even if newborns could not feel pain and wouldn't remember it, can you imagine someone slapping a newborn and using that excuse? Even the most adamant pro-circ people would think that was abuse. But hacking off their genitals? That's cool.

[tireesix]

Some ppl seem to think that local anaesthetic injections and gels etc are painless..........

I have had loads of local anaesthetics, they sting like hell. I had a local anaesthetic injected into my cervix and I have never felt anything like it, I screamed. My DH heard me scream from the waiting room up the hall. Even the local anaesthetic gel I use on my genitals when my vestibulitis etc pops up hurts like hell before the anaesthetic kicks in........

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by wackynaturelady

He went on to explain that newborns have limited sensations that they are capable of feeling, such as hunger, because they can only experience what is absolutely necessary for survival.

Yeah. Uh, right. And feeling pain doesn't have anything to do with survival. It's just for fun.

I get it. Not.

Oh, and as for not feeling pain in their extremities, anyone whose kid has ever screeched like a banshee during their PKU heel stick knows that that's BS.

[wackynaturelady]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Yeah. Uh, right. And feeling pain doesn't have anything to do with survival. It's just for fun.

I get it. Not.

Oh, and as for not feeling pain in their extremities, anyone whose kid has ever screeched like a banshee during their PKU heel stick knows that that's BS.

I know, right? How is reacting to stabbing, poking and slicing not survival-related? I thought I was in the Twilight Zone.

[DocsNemesis]

Originally Posted by Meg Murry.

Yeah. Uh, right. And feeling pain doesn't have anything to do with survival. It's just for fun.

I get it. Not.

Oh, and as for not feeling pain in their extremities, anyone whose kid has ever screeched like a banshee during their PKU heel stick knows that that's BS.

Lol, my dd slept right through the PKU! I mean, she squirmed a little, but never woke up. Of course, she had pretty bad jaundice, I bet she would have been screaming otherwise. My other two sure did! My ds was in the NICU and had his heal stuck several dozen times-and he screamed every single time

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by DocsNemesis

Lol, my dd slept right through the PKU! I mean, she squirmed a little, but never woke up. Of course, she had pretty bad jaundice, I bet she would have been screaming otherwise. My other two sure did! My ds was in the NICU and had his heal stuck several dozen times-and he screamed every single time

Thank God your daughter wasn't circumcised!:

[monkeys4mama]

Originally Posted by baybee

One of my clients told me that she had no regrets about circumcising because it's possible to restore it later in life if he wants.

This is totally backwards. : How about leaving the child intact b/c it's possible to perform the surgery later in life if he wants. And the restored foreskin will never be the same as what he was originally born with. Nor is it a simple or quick process. Leave the child whole and let him decide for himself as an adult.

[DocsNemesis]

You know, I have never thought of this before, but what if some of those babies who "sleep right through" their circ's are jaundice and just dont wake up? I mean, my dd was pretty jaundice (not to the point of being hospitalized though), I could get her to wake up to eat every few hours, but when it came to the heel sticks, it just didnt phase her in the least. I think they poked her twice for the second one too. Granted a circumcision is a whole lot more painful than a heel stick, but I bet they go into shock a lot faster when their bodies are already all out of balance.

[paminmi]

Originally Posted by baybee

One of my clients told me that she had no regrets about circumcising because it's possible to restore it later in life if he wants.

What did you actually say to her after that?

[enstar780]

About restoring. I am afraid that parents will use this as an excuse to allow their children to be mutilated, "since he can restore later". This is wrong. Completely. You can never get back the nerve endings you have lost, they will not grow back. People stretch their skin over their glans, but this does not restore any nerve endings or anything that was lost. I have tried restoring, and, i havent noticed a difference. None at all. Not any more sensitivity. I dont think it is worth it actually, and I have a concern that stetching the skin might actually decrease nerve density, since perhaps the surface area of the skin as increased, but there are no new nerve endings, so the nerve endings are further spread apart.

And yes, circumcision is very traumatic and overwhelming for an infant. That most people would not slap their infant but then do this to them highlights how insane it is.

As a young child, I did have fears and low self confidence, I would cry if my mother left me at daycare or whatever. I also am afraid of doctors and get panicky when I go to one. I was also hyper sensitive to pain and would hide when my parents tried to take me to a pediatrician since I could not tolerate having my finger pricked for a blood sample. Who knows if this was contributed to by what happened to me. When I was young VERY strong sense that I had been mutilated when I was an infant and I felt very resentful about it, i felt a deep pain and trauma, I knew something had happened. I have also had memories of since I was a child, before I knew what had happened, being strapped down as an infant, in a hospital, to a plastic board. I didnt know exactly what this was all about, and why this was coming into my consciousness. So yes, it is possible to remeber it. Ive read a theory that a traumatic event that causes cortisol to be released can trigger memories of this event. Very high cortisol stress hormone levels can be measured in infants subjected to this. I heard about a women who can remember her birth, so these sorts of things are not unheard of.