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Red Meat Alternatives- any ideas? - Page 2  

post #21 of 38
For two years we were eating gluten and casien free. Four months ago we started the SCD diet. We were eating lots of fruit, red meat especially bacon, eggs, some veggies, lots of nuts, peanut butter and cheese, lots of orange juice, and very little raw goat yogurt.

We are stopping the SCD, and adding some very healthy grains like quinoa and sprouted ezekiel bread. We are eliminating cheese, nuts, red meat, orange juice and peanut butter. We are upping the goat yogurt, maybe using tapioca flour to thicken it. I need for the goat yogurt to taste like oy soy yogurt, because that is the yogurt she likes, we had experimented with adding back soy, but I see from the weird bowels she gets that soy is causing a problem for her. The goat yogurt needs to be thicker and have a good peach flavor and taste like its sweetened with cane juice when it's not. We use honey as a sweetener, and occasionally xylitol. We put the coromega packets twice a day in the yogurt, and thats the way she likes to take them. We have pepermint tea with swedish bitters and honey. She takes 1 tsp cod liver oil, and 1 tsp flaxseed oil, two times a day. She gets a natural factors learning factors vitamin shake with a frozen banana and 1000 mg vit. C, virastop, quercetin, and curcumin added, once or twice a day. We use almond milk in the shake which we are going to be reducing (maybe replacing with goat milk). We have used turkey bacon with eggs, some from the regular store and some archer farms. We've upped the apple cider, grape, and pineapple juice. This month we are cooking a lot of hearty soups with veggies hidden in them. We are going to be making pumpkin butter and experimenting with pumpkin sauces. We've stopped using coconut oil because of the saturated fats, and I guess thinking of replacing with olive oil, lard, or bacon grease. She eats apples, chicken, bananas, mighty mango naked juice, green machine naked juice, pears. She doesn't like leafy greens, but we have switched from spinach to endive and regular head lettuce to try to get her more into salads. She will eat avacado and tuna. She eats some seafood like a few shrimp or some salmon. Turkey burgers. Grapes, oranges, cantalope, watermelon. She loves artichokes.
post #22 of 38
Why are you cutting back on the use of coconut oil? Animal fats are also saturated fats.
post #23 of 38
One of the things we are supposed to reduce or eliminate for juvenile rheumatoid arthritis is saturated fats. I didn't know sat fats were in so many things...like eggs, goat milk and lard, and in red meats if we want to stay on topic Our current diet is probably very high in saturated fats. Just today, dd had four eggs, two for breakfast scrambled with one slice of turkey bacon cut up in it and two sliced hard boiled over cauliflower, broccoli, and carrots (so she would eat the veggies) at dinner. We just started today adding 1/2 a cup of goat milk in her vitamin shake. I was trying to eliminate almond milk we usually use in her vitamin shake, because of their high oxalates, and instead I upped saturated fats when we added raw goat milk. I don't know what to put in her vitamin shake now...maybe apple cider or grape juice.

maybe I should just go over and read the nutrition 101 thread...:

The purpose of avoiding sat fats is that the arachidonic acids that are in excess in arthritis are found abundantly in saturated fats. I read today that's why people with arthritis feel better when becoming vegetarian. I mentioned to dd about becoming vegetarian, and her response was that "she couldn't live without chicken"...she said "yk, mom..mmm...It tastes like chicken...I've been saying that since I was four"...it was really funny the way she said it because she was totally serious.
post #24 of 38
I'm just curious about the research backing up the "low saturated fats for JRA" because there's so much by the WAP foundation on the necessity of saturated fats for overall health. I'd say it's difficult, if not impossible to simultaneously reduce saturated fats in the diet while following a diet based on WAP principles.
post #25 of 38
What my husband wants to know is why our daughter got sick while on the SCD diet....if its all that healthy? And He and my Mom are super tired of us ping ponging our diet around. The switch from traditional to gluten/casien free was like turning the titanic. Switching to SCD was like giving them root canals....now they are complaining that all of this diet switching is making them ill. I have to listen to them. They say they just want us to have a balanced diet. Well, what is that?

But I like the SCD diet. I was ready to get into traditional foods, weston a. price, and nt, and makers diet, the whole nine yards, before our child was diagnosed with arthritis.

The first thing Lori at the great plains lab tells me is that they are finding a LOT of kids on the SCD who are sensitive to oxalates, they start experiencing great pain on the SCD diet, especially foot pain. She gave me the link for a yahoo group, but I lost it.

Because the SCD is high in oxalates, she said, mainly nuts but also orange juice.

Well, who do I believe, eastern medicine which says no sat fat or traditional that says eat butter? Believe me, we love butter, I mean tell me what I want to hear by saying we can have butter. I like cooking with coconut oil.

Eastern medicine says no red meat, and WAP says you can eat it, not only that don't drain the fat off that bacon, just eat it.
I've loved my greasy bacon on SCD.

Show me a list of people with arthritis who have gotten better on WAP, because I have heard several stories about people who go veggie, or eliminate nightshades, starches, red meats, dairy, or oxalates, and their arthritis goes away. I've been reading nothing but that for weeks.

It's really confusing when there are such conflicting reports of what a healthy diet is.
post #26 of 38
Hi,
I haven't responded to this one because I haven't been around here very much lately but I've been following and waiting for someone else to jump in (okay, maybe I'm just lazy ) Anyway, I don't have a very long story to tell you, but my own joint pain improves drastically when I'm eating a good portion of my diet as fats, largely grassfed cultured butter, but also CLO and coconut oil. Another thing I do, aside from watching my diet a little more closely (this has been a bad year for me, I've been eating way too much processed and restaurant food : and even though we still eat largely organic, it's not great for my physical well being) is I make sure to drink LOTS of the potassium broth that's in NT - I think that's a HUGE factor in helping my cells salts rebalance. Oh, speaking of, start giving your dd homeopathic cell salts (aka tissue salts, BIOXII, and I'm sure it goes by other names).
If you haven't already, ask the question in the main part of the forum. I think some people tend to avoid some of these threads if it seems there might be a degree of antagonism.
HTH to get an anecdote from the other side of the fence.
post #27 of 38
Thanks, we've converted over to doing the tradtional foods route just since I made those posts. DD is sipping on raw goat milk as much as she wants all day...I know...I know...I am a ping ponging woman that drives everyone around me nuts with the diet stuff..I had my big total freakout over the diet, and now I think we are going in a NT, or weston price, mixed with a little SCD direction...

It helps that I have recieved a ton of community support from local farmers in our area, and there is a WAP support group with ladies I already knew in it, and didn't even know...so this is going to be fun. There's a fermenting and kombucha class on Dec. 3rd that I can go to, so how cool is that?

It's good to hear a story of someone this diet has worked for. I read some more on the WAP website.

I have the CO, CLO, going and yay...we have bioplasma! I haven't learned to make a potassium broth yet, but I do add potassium powder to dd's food.
post #28 of 38
I really think it all depends on the individual. Some will have fabulous success cutting out all animal products, some will need to eat tons. Everyone's body will react differently to the food. Joel Fuhrman is a doc who specializes in autoimmune stuff and recommends a vegan diet and has an incredible amount of success. Jordan Rubin has as well. He's the Maker's Diet guy and is far closer to NT. So clearly both are having right, even though they are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. It's going to come down to how your daughter metabolizes her food.

The SCD is great for many. Know also that alot of people cannot make it through die-off-it is very uncomfortable. Is that what your dh is referring to? IF her body was releasing toxins though she appeared sick, she was getting healthy.

HearthElde-which tissue salts? There are 12 I believe.
post #29 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestbirths View Post
Show me a list of people with arthritis who have gotten better on WAP
My mom has! She has gotten so much better in just a few months. She has arthritis and chronic fatigue. She's down from 10 pills a day and feeling crappy to no pills and feeling great! Her arthritis improved in just a few days. It was incredible. Right now she's doing a raw milk diet for a month or two to see if it makes any difference for her. NT/WAP is the way to go. To me it's not some "diet" but the way people have eaten for thousands of years. It's biologically normal, kind of like breastfeeding.
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
HerthElde-which tissue salts? There are 12 I believe.
Its a mix of all 12, the one I use is called "BIO XII". They're all at a 6x potency.
post #31 of 38
Huh, I've never seen that before. Very cool.
post #32 of 38
Ok, so my dd too, is sipping raw goat milk all day now. It's only been about three days of sipping the raw goat milk, and yesterday was a bad arthritis day.

Is a large part of this diet paying attention to what each food does to each person and what each person craves? There's 8 in our family. I already know that soy backs up dd with arthritis so bad she was screaming in pain, and I took her to the er, just to find out duh, she was constipated. Absolutely no more soy...except shoyu sause. The lamb, squash, and risotto I made felt really satisfying to me and my mom, but only half of the children ate it...it made my husband nauseous to eat it because it was too much fat (he is overweight, why would too much fat bother him?). : Only half will like rice...and a lot of them like refried beans, if there was a healthy version of that I could make. I have yet to make a meal that everyone will like. So, I take it this means they are all needing different things?

I am already trying to figure out which foods everyone craves and likes.
oldest dd-craves bread
child ds#2-craves meat, but red meat, and didn't like lamb. he's very thin. He loves beef jerky.
child dd #4- is eight years old and very thin...barely eats.. We have been through a eating disorder with our oldest, so I hope it isn't that again.
child #5-loves the raw goat milk, craves the raw goat milk.

I want to add beans, and rice to be able to afford grain fed meat, goat milk, and organic fruit and veggies. Maybe add grain too, but only the healthiest way.
post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
The SCD is great for many. Know also that alot of people cannot make it through die-off-it is very uncomfortable. Is that what your dh is referring to? IF her body was releasing toxins though she appeared sick, she was getting healthy.

HearthElde-which tissue salts? There are 12 I believe.
Dh was upset that dd had eye inflammation and uveitis on a "healthy" diet. He doesn't think SCD is a balanced diet. He thinks that wierd things will happen on a fad diet. And to which I replied it's more balanced than the fast food and Art & Marty jalepeno chips you eat...sheesh.
I am trying to make the diet more "balanced", now...anyhow.

Question. I was told not to mix homeopathics with herbals. So, since dd is taking curcumin, quercitin and bromelian, milk thistle, etc...it it still ok to take cell salts and homeopathics?

Personally, I have mixed herbs and homeopathics for years...just another of the conflicting things I've been told recently that have my head spinning.
post #34 of 38
There is no reason not to mix them, they do very different things.
post #35 of 38
It doesn't matter how heavy or thin you are, if your gall bladder can't handle that much fat you will have issues. He could be deficient in lipase (the enzyme that breaks down fats) as well.

It is not uncommon for people who are allergic to soy to be allergic to dairy as well....just food for thought.

From what you are saying about the rest of your family I think you will do really well on the HTG tribe. It sounds like different pieces of the same issue.
post #36 of 38
Re: eating fatty foods

It's my opinion (I've never really looked into this, so take it for what that's worth) that women in general need much more fat than men, especially women of childbearing age. Men, otoh, need more protein as they have more muscle in general. Individual requirements differ though, of course.

As far as what diet works best for each individual, I find Colin Griffith's take fascinating in his Companion to Homeopathy. He's got a whole chapter entitled "Defective Nutrition" in which he discusses how when the system is imbalanced, avoiding something or adding something extra to the diet for a while might be just what a person needs, but if that's kept up, it might swing the system into an imbalance the other way.
post #37 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bestbirths View Post
Thanks, we've converted over to doing the tradtional foods route just since I made those posts. DD is sipping on raw goat milk as much as she wants all day...I know...I know...I am a ping ponging woman that drives everyone around me nuts with the diet stuff..I had my big total freakout over the diet, and now I think we are going in a NT, or weston price, mixed with a little SCD direction...
It's okay to switch.s I had all of us on a vegan diet until some health issues led me to NT. Imagine my mother's suprise when I requested pot roast for my birthday dinner! You are doing the best you can to help your family. I have taken heat for being all over the place with my decisions. What people did not see was the hours reading I wa doing behind the scenes so my decisions seemed out of nowhere, when they were not.

I think that if you are preparing all these foods, then your family should jut be thankful that you care and cook for them!

In my family I find my husband needs more carbs. So I just add a slice of sourdough bread or potato to his dinner. (I know your issues are more complicated). When people have different needs maybe you could start with a main dish and then add sides/drink according to people's needs.

IMO, almost everyone needs to heal the gut and could benefit from some of those protocols.

Jen
post #38 of 38
I wanted to add that cravings do not necessarily mean that the body needs something. Especially when a person is unhealthy, has an unhealthy gut flora, out of whack nutrient levels, etc. The unhealthy body may be craving the very thing it should not have. Lots of people with food allergies will actually crave the thing they are allergic to, for instance.

If the body is healthy, the gut is healthy, then I believe that cravings have some bearing. I think your body will tell you, when it is functioning properly, what it needs to maintain that proper functioning. (Did that make sense? )
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