It looks better! (rant)

[pdx.mothernurture]

Aren't we all tired of hearing THAT one? It seriously squicks me out. It is downright creepy for a parent to care so much about the cosmetic appearance of their own child's most private, sexual parts that they request surgical alteration to suite their own culturally-conditioned preferrences...

Cosmetically-motivated circumcision violently imposes a parent's culturally-conditioned sexual preferrence on a perfectly normal, healthy non-consenting child. It is an blatantly inappropriate breach of appropriate parental boundaries, respect, and trust. Circumcision externalizes the glans, which is designed to only be exposed during an erection; it makes the penis of a baby permantly look like the penis of an aroused, natural man. A baby's first sexual experience shouldn't be of having his penis stretched, torn, crushed, and cut. Circumcising a baby because you think a cut penis looks better is not love; it's arrogance. You will never be having sex with your son; what you prefer should have no bearing whatsoever on which parts of your son's sexual anatomy he gets to keep, and which end up in a medical waste incinerator. Vaginal rejuvination, clitoral hood removal, labiaplasty, and breast implants are popular cosmetic alterations requested by adult women; these women believe it will improve the appearance of their genitals. Would these alterations be a ethical thing to do to a female infant or child?

Circumcision is a very personal choice---HIS.


/rant

Sorry, at the end of the day yesterday, as we were closing up the booth a very argumentative man came by advocating circumcision on cosmetic reasons alone. It just irks me to no end.

Jen

[myfairbabies]

Aaaaaaagh! That drives me nuts! I heard a woman once say "Ewwww, I would never give h*** to an uncircumcised guy. All that hangy skin is gross!" Well, I hope you'll never be doing that with your son but it's a good thing that you can tell the future and you know his future gf/dw will feel the same way.

[twin monkeys]

My SIL and I have had this talk so many times, and we both feel that intact just looks natural and circ looks so exposed we both cried when her other SIL changed her babys diaper we could not even look it just looked so open and out there for everyone to see. She did give me a big hug and say how much she loved that I left the choice up to my boys I told her the same thing.

[DocsNemesis]

Ugh, I HATE that argument too! Why the heck do you care what your sons penis looks like?? Its not like YOU are going to be sleeping with him. And if he had an issue with his penis as he got older, he could always have it done himself. However, I am telling my son that he should NEVER get himself circ'd just for a girl. I mean, if he wants to do it for his own reasons, fine, but if his gf cant accept him as is, then she doesnt deserve him. Besides we ALL know how relationships go-he'd go get this done to make her happy and 2 weeks later they'd break up. Even with marriage, the divorce rates are sooo high. Well, at least if we are still in Europe as he grows up, it shouldnt be an issue, since women there are used to seeing intact guys.

[AntoninBeGonin]

Surprisingly, no one has said that to me yet. My circle of friends are all AP so most of them left their sons intact. However, if someone did say it to me I'd probably give them a funny look and say, "You do realize, of course, that intact men only show the head of their penis when they're erect. Kinda creepy that you want your newborn son to look like he's permanently sexually aroused." :

Hey, after they spout the BS about "I prefer how it looks" I think anything I come back with is fair game.

~Nay

[cristina63303]

Circumcised does NOT look better. It looks weird and sad, especially on a kid who'se glans is not supposed to show in the first place.

This is NOT cosmetic surgery, because "cosmetic" is supposed to improve the apperance of something/someone. Circumcision does not do that.

IMO.

I visit this board often and the question permanently on my mind is: How is circumcision NOT child abuse?

[DocsNemesis]

Of course it isnt here...but there are countries where it is. Or where it is just plain illegal. But we are "better" than everyone else, right?
It seriously is a complex Americans have. Not all of course, but so many of us think that we are sooo much better than all teh other countries in the world. And I am getting sick of people telling me that if I dont like it, I can leave. I'm trying to, darn it!!!

[MommytoB]

I know I hate this argument after being so exposed to circ males nearly all my life then leaving my son au natural and after I see the 'boy' who is a circ baby or circ toddler ugh makes me so weirded out .

Today I was at Red Robin Cleaning up my son 'butt' he made a huge blowout' so it took awhile to clean up so his intactness was all there & proud so during the 'diaper change of my son there were both two boy siblings and they were circumcised but I think the boy who's the same age as my son actually asked a question because i heard the mom mumble like he isn't circumcized (that was it) she said it so quietly and almost angry like maybe she was talked into the 'peer alike locker room argument. Now she ends up seeing my 'intact son' who's the 'same age as of her son and she did it to her 'recent baby too' maybe she will start to see 'even more 'au natural boys'

[Pandora114]

I'd be rude.

"I like how it looks"

"So you're saying you'll be F'ing your son? What other reason would you care how his penis looks?"

Of course tact isn't in my vocabulary

[DreamsInDigital]

I have a rad comeback for this:
So what? I like my son with long hair, but it's his effing head, so he gets a short, spiky haircut every time we go to the salon. YOU might think it looks better, but your son or his future wife may have a different opinion!

[enstar780]

Those who claim that the intact penis is offensive, in fact, deeply insult me, for this is an insult to my whole, intact body, that I was born with, and that I once had. It is only because some serial mutilator destroyed and mutilated this really rather vital body part, that I am missing it. And I really do miss it, it is a traumatic, painful, and awful loss, of pleasure, joy, sensations I will never be able to feel because of this. It is a part of my life that has been stolen, a beauitiful and wonderful part denied to me forever. When men claim that their unintact, mutilated state is better, they are essentially insulting themselves, both degrading themselves and doing nothing to advocate for their own basic human rights to a whole body, but also they are degrading their true, whole, natural, intact body, the way they are born, and which was stolen from them.

This notion, the idea, that parents are imposing their own personal preferences of what their child should look like by surgically altering his body is simply disgusting and shocking to me, it makes me want to :Puke . It violates all sorts of basic human rights and is quite unethical, it really frightens me how people can commit these most henious acts and seem to see nothing wrong with them.

[mommystime]

understanding...

I understand what all of you had said here. My question to you all is: what if your oldest boy had to have it done for medical reasons? would you have done it? would you have had it done on the other boys born so they all look alike?

[sandals]

Why would I cut pieces off my younger child's body so that he would look like his older brother?

If my oldest girl had to have a breast removed, I wouldn't go removing a breast of my younger girl so they would look alike.

And, of course, if my son falls into the small percentage of men who needs a medical circumcision, I will do what is best for him.

[bandgeek]

Originally Posted by mommystime

I understand what all of you had said here. My question to you all is: what if your oldest boy had to have it done for medical reasons? would you have done it? would you have had it done on the other boys born so they all look alike?

The chances my son would ever need a medical circ are extremely slim. Almost non-existant. If he really, truly needed a circ, we would do it. We absolutely would NOT punish future sons for a freak medical problem their older brother had. "Looking alike" is not a good reason to circ. My DH is circed and my DS is not. It is not and never will be an issue because we will teach our son that what happened to his father was wrong and it shouldn't have ever happened in the first place. I would never have cosmetic surgery performed on a child so they can look like someone else.

[mommystime]

Originally Posted by bandgeek

The chances my son would ever need a medical circ are extremely slim. Almost non-existant. If he really, truly needed a circ, we would do it. We absolutely would NOT punish future sons for a freak medical problem their older brother had. "Looking alike" is not a good reason to circ. My DH is circed and my DS is not. It is not and never will be an issue because we will teach our son that what happened to his father was wrong and it shouldn't have ever happened in the first place. I would never have cosmetic surgery performed on a child so they can look like someone else.

I only asked because: people have asked why my youngest did not and my oldest did, they do not understand he HAD to, where younger has not, hopefully will not, but we may have too...there is a birth defect there...

[sandals]

There are so many misconceptions about intactness/circumcision...it's hard to keep track of them all! There are medical reasons, as you have experienced...I think, becuase a lot of americans see circumcision as a medical procedure of importance, they probably would not understand that difference between medical necessary circ and all the rest. It sucks that you have to exaplin that to them.

[bandgeek]

Originally Posted by mommystime

I only asked because: people have asked why my youngest did not and my oldest did, they do not understand he HAD to, where younger has not, hopefully will not, but we may have too...there is a birth defect there...

Would you mind talking about your experiences so we can better understand the situation? Why did your first son need circ'ed and what birth defect does your second son have? What did the doctors tell you?

[DreamsInDigital]

My oldest son is circ'd. We have had many, many conversations about how bad I feel for his loss, and why circ is wrong. If it had been for a medical reason, I still would have had a conversation with him about why routine infant circ is wrong. And his two younger brothers, and any future boys, will all keep their foreskins.

[baybee]

I recently received the following email from a doula who participates on a lot of the parenting board. In this case, the woman who moderated the list was all for circ and then had a complete change of mind from watching the "Prepuce" video.
There IS hope, folks, keep on educating. Baybee

From Karen, Doula: In a parenting forum, I participated in a
circumcision thread recently and provided a lot of information,
including the link to the D.O.C.. video, "The Prepuce".
Here is the first post from the site's moderator,
regarding her position on the circumcision topic...and
then beneath it is her position AFTER she watched the
video. Proof that it is VERY effective!!! Karen

---
Post before watching the "Prepuce"
I do not have boys, but if I did I WOULD circumcise.
John and I have talked about it briefly, and we seemed
to agree on that. But, if for some reason he was
against it, since he's a man.....I would let him make
the final decision. As a woman, I don't
understand the emotional side of it. kwim?

I've read mixed things about it. I've seen stuff on
both sides of the fence. For me, its more of a
cosmetic thing. Most guys are circumsized......I'd
hate for the little guy to be embarrassed in the locker
room. Or with a woman. I remember a friend of mine
dated a boy who wasn't, and it freaked her out!

---
Post from same woman, after watching "Prepuce"
Watched the video. Took a while to download and was 20
mins long. WOW....it really answered most of my
questions!!!! Gotta love the people who put that stuff
together!

The one thing that got me in that video is how it
talked about the appendix, tonsils, and other things
in the body that were once thought unnecessary. and how
they are finding out it's not true. That they really
are vital to the body's health and well being.
And the same goes for the foreskin!! It was REALLY
interesting!

And I was also quite relieved at how "normal" the
penis does look. It doesn't look like some strange
creature from another planet or anything. (I guess you
don't know if you aren't educated about it....or just
never seen it!)

I must say........and this is totally strange for me
to say this, because I am one that is often strong on
their opinions....BUT YOU LADIES HAVE CHANGED MY
OPINION ON THIS!! I seriously think if this
baby is a boy (or any future babies) that he should be
left intact. It just makes sense!!! That video was
really the thing that did it for me. It put it all out
there, plain english, with pictures and diagrams. And
it wasn't weighted. It was just a facts type
presentation. Form your own opinion from it kind of
thing. And I'm really impressed.

I'm going to have John watch it this weekend and we'll
talk about it. From what I've been telling him, I think
he's willing to consider other options. Really
interesting!!!!

Anyhoo.....thanks ladies for all the info!>>>

Links to "The Prepuce"




(WMP, streaming) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...C/prepuce.html

(WMP, download) http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...TSC_256k_D.wmv

[trmpetplaya]

Circumcised does not look "better" (it looks naked ) and I agree that it's offensive when people say that intact is disgusting... my dh's penis is NOT disgusting in any way : It boggles my mind that some women want their son's penises to be attractive to them... that really smacks of incest. I don't think they think of it that way, but it really comes across like that.

And what are they going to tell their son when he gets older and maybe isn't happy that his parents chose to chop off half his penis? "Well, I personally don't find intact penises attractive and I wanted your penis to be attractive to me." : What teenage boy isn't going to be grossed out by his mother wanting to find his penis attractive? By his mother having cosmetic surgery on his genitals done so she would think his genitals were attractive. WTF? People [/rant]

love and peace.