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forced bra wearing?-updates pg. 5 and 7 - Page 3

post #41 of 168
Lunch box Patrol? What the h*ll! Was this a public school? They will let blatent sexual harrassment go on, but G*d forbid a granola bar!
post #42 of 168
My nipples show through even my padded bras. They like to say HELLO to the world I guess!

What a bizarre request. What the heck is your teacher doing looking at your daughters breasts anyways?!?!?!? And seriously, I am not about forcing the female half of the population to wear anything based on the lack of self control evident amongst the male half. If their mamas don't teach them respect for women, leave it to me, without my bra, to do it! :

I don't believe it is RIGHT that a child should be forced into a bra she doesn't want to wear because a boy might be stimulated by staring at her breasts. Frankly I think adolescent boys will get stimulated regardless of whether or not her nipples are visible to the naked eye or you need a microscope to see them. That is why they are called "adolescent." Learning to deal with it is part of growing up, IMO.

I would definitely be wanting a chat with this teacher!
post #43 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyto3girls
Lunch box Patrol? What the h*ll! Was this a public school? They will let blatent sexual harrassment go on, but G*d forbid a granola bar!
>.> Semi-Private Military French Language school..we had little uniforms and everything...
post #44 of 168
Or loppedsided, or nursing. Lately there is this new thing of putting UNDERWIRE in nursing bras! SHEESH! All that does is plug ducts. :

Pandora114: That is some messed up school you went too. They allowed boys to poke you in the chest, but took granola bars out of lunch boxes?? Maybe the teachers were just hungry. LOL

H
post #45 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyto3girls
Now, I'm not saying to force her to wear a bra, but an undershirt or thourough inspection of what she looks like through her shirt each day, may be in order. If for no other reason than to be sure the boys aren't stocking up on memories of her chest for leter on!
So if your worst case scenario is that the boys might... think.. of her breasts later on... ummmmm... so what?

I am not sure why that is cause to subject this young woman to humiliation and scrutiny. I must be really confused. :
post #46 of 168
coming from an early developers POV......if you dont wear a bra once you get to a B or more, ANY movement does tend to distract the boys, and it could make her the object of teasing.

I do think its wrong for the teacher to be sending that home, but i would definatly find out what her POV was when she sent it.
post #47 of 168
Man this thread is trucking along!
Prettypixels: I totally agree with you. (I don't know how to do the quote thing after all these years! LOL) Why should women/girls be subject to something just because "we" can't teach men/boys how to be respectful. How about teaching boys that girls bodys belong to girls and to keep their d*mn hands to themselves! :

H
post #48 of 168
Stepping in....couldn't not post on this one. I think this is totally ridiculous. What happened to the old feminist "bra-burning" attitude?? I think it needs to come back. Before long we'll all be back in whalebone corsets if this teacher and those likeminded get their way. Oh and BTW you can often see men's nipples through shirts too, but they don't have to wear undershirts ( although my grandfather always did- generation thing I suppose ) Your DD has enough to worry about being 11 years old, and she's going to have a lot of not-so-great things to deal with coming up in the future ( periods, pms, you get it.. ) Why oh why do we force our girls to grow up so soon???
If your dd doesn't want to wear a bra, she shouldn't have to.
post #49 of 168
I just wanted to chime in on this topic... it seems to me that the teacher did not responed to the situation approtratly. First if she wrote the words "needs to" they should be followed by a reason. next, if there is a reason that she "needs to" then you should have been informed in a phone call.

FWIW I think you should make a few phone calls of your own.

I would love to hear how things turn out and what action you decide to take.
post #50 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by prettypixels
So if your worst case scenario is that the boys might... think.. of her breasts later on... ummmmm... so what?
Okay, so right or not. Often what boys think about one day is what they act on the next. They are not your sons, they have not been raised with your morals. I personally would rather explain to my daughter what may be going on and ask her to wear a T-shirt, sports bra, bra, thicker shirt, whatever.

Much better then a boy decided to stick his hand up her shirt in the hall because of the easy access.

I don't know, maybe I have spent too much time in the inner city. Seen too much, know too much about what can happen to kids in schools. We do our best here, Principal, Asst. Principal, 2 deans, 2 Campus Protection officers, and one city police officer in the junior highs. Things still happen.

In case any of you do not know where I teach. I teach where the White Surpremicists came up from W. Virginia and tried to hold a protest march. Now, I do not agree with them in any way shape or form, obviously or I would not teach where I teach. However, the police were obligated to provide protecting as they had filed the legal papers to stage a "peaceful" protest. People in Toledo were furious, as they should be. However, it was still the surpremicists constitutional right to hold a peaceful protsest. It turned into what was known as "The North End Riots" It was shown on CNN, and MSN. I had students in my 6th grade class arrested for throwing rocks at the police. People's homes were torn apart, a 80 year old man's business and home were burned to the ground and he wasn't involved in the feuding at all.

I need to go to bed, I have 100 teens and pre-teens expecting me to be on my toes at 7:30 tomorrow
post #51 of 168
Ok that was a bit off topic. Still, a bra will not stop a boy who wants to grab up on a girl. It isn't a shield. They can still grab the boob. And I am sure it would be just as tramatizing with or without a bra to have some *ss grab you breasts as an 11 year old. That being said... you have again put the blame/responsiblity on the girl to keep from being molested by a boy instead of society teaching boys that that sort of thing is just plain wrong. This sort of change will not happen over night, but it will never happen if we burry our heads in the sand and tell our daughters to cover up.

H
post #52 of 168
What was off topic? Telling you where I teach so you can understnad my point of view better.

Obviously, as I said, it is not the girls responsibility. However, anything to keep my daughter safer. And yes, the ones where they could feel bare boob would be more likely grabbed than the ones that they would get a handful of bra from.

Now I'm really going to bed
post #53 of 168
: : mamaofthree exactly what I was thinking but wasnt able to figure out how to type it.
post #54 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by romans_mum
coming from an early developers POV......if you dont wear a bra once you get to a B or more, ANY movement does tend to distract the boys, and it could make her the object of teasing.
Coming from another early developer, who wore a bra from the moment they started to appear, a bra does diddly-squat to prevent this. I was poked in the breasts, I had my bra snapped, I had a boy point out (loudly) that my "tits were lopsided" at lunch time. I was followed around by two boys saying "I want your body" and reaching for me. I had boys assume that I was "easy", because I had a big chest. I always wore a bra.

Someone replied to my comment about "thoroughly inspecting" your dd. I can assure you that I noticed when people were looking at my chest - mom, teacher, boy in my class, creepy old guy - whatever. It didn't matter if they stared or just glanced. I was hyper-sensitive to it. Besides, what good is checking "discreetly"? If the girl's nipples are visible or whatever, there's no way to address that without calling her attention to it...and then she'll know that you were studying her chest.

Oh - and I've also had people stick their hand up my shirt, against my objections, despite the lack of "easy access".

A bra is a piece of fabric - it's not body armour. And, I know plenty of guys, young and old, who much prefer the look of a woman's (or girl's) breasts in a bra than not in a bra. So, putting a bra on isn't going to keep my dd's breasts from appearing in some boy's sexual fantasies.
post #55 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree
Ok that was a bit off topic. Still, a bra will not stop a boy who wants to grab up on a girl. It isn't a shield. They can still grab the boob. And I am sure it would be just as tramatizing with or without a bra to have some *ss grab you breasts as an 11 year old. That being said... you have again put the blame/responsiblity on the girl to keep from being molested by a boy instead of society teaching boys that that sort of thing is just plain wrong. This sort of change will not happen over night, but it will never happen if we burry our heads in the sand and tell our daughters to cover up.

H
:
post #56 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommyto3girls
What was off topic? Telling you where I teach so you can understnad my point of view better.

Obviously, as I said, it is not the girls responsibility. However, anything to keep my daughter safer. And yes, the ones where they could feel bare boob would be more likely grabbed than the ones that they would get a handful of bra from.

Now I'm really going to bed
Quite frankly, I would rather not teach any daughter of mine to be ashamed of her body. I would rather show her what recourse and preventative measures she can use to protect herself. Rather than force a girl into a bra, I would offer self-defense classes. Karate. Jujitsu. I would help her find the proper retorts and the appropriate authority figure with whom to speak if she encounters any trouble. I would let her know that she is less likely to be victimized if she displayed her confidence in herself and her body. And most of all, if she encountered any trouble that she couldn't handle herself, I would fight like hell to protect her and to guarantee that anyone who disrespects her is appropriately punished.

I don't think teaching a daughter to wear a bra out of fear would serve her at all. I think it would damage her.
post #57 of 168
It's all about choosing the right tool:

1. Bras are the right tool for shaping breasts, lifting them, and making them seem symmetrical.

2. Kicks to the groin and jabs to the eyeballs are the appropriate tools for dealing with boys or men who sexually assault girls or women.

Wearing a bra won't help ward off sexual assault any more than kicking a dude in the groin will give you perky, symmetrical boobs.
post #58 of 168
Quote:
I would let her know that she is less likely to be victimized if she displayed her confidence in herself and her body. And most of all, if she encountered any trouble that she couldn't handle herself, I would fight like hell to protect her and to guarantee that anyone who disrespects her is appropriately punished.

I don't think teaching a daughter to wear a bra out of fear would serve her at all. I think it would damage her.
This is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO important. The girls that walk tall and proud and let the boys know if they step out of line are so much safer than the ones that have been told that it is their responsibility to dress modestly so that the boys don't lose control.

Until last year, I was a middle school teacher (Now I teach at an alternative high school). I have had girls wearing music video fantasy gear that walked down the halls unscathed, and I had a serious sexual harassment incident with a group of boys harassing a girl who wore very "decent" clothes each day. But she oozed "victim" out of her every pore.

It is also my experience that when something does happen, the girls with a strong sense of self bounce back quicker--they place the blame squarely where it belongs--with the perpetrator, whereas the ones that have been told that they need to dress and act in a certain way to be "safe" blame themselves.
post #59 of 168
RIGHT ON!

Making young girls ashamed of their bodies, I think only encourages the gropping and bra snapping. They look like targets. Being all bent over and slumped, hiding within themselves. Putting on fabic body armor to prevent boys from looking and maybe even thinking about them later, is just plain silly. And as someone who knows some 11 year old boys, not many (if any at all) are interested in boobs or girls.
I had a dear friend who was "huge" in 5th grade, but she was proud and stood tall, and had few if any comments made to her, even at 10-11 years old.
If we teach our dd's to be proud of their bodies (no matter how much or how little breast they have), teach them that they are not objects to be groped (but not to teach them to hide themselves), and on top of all of that teach boys to be respectful of female bodies (and their own bodies for that matter) then maybe this wouldn't even be a topic.

H
post #60 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog
Wearing a bra won't help ward off sexual assault any more than kicking a dude in the groin will give you perky, symmetrical boobs.
If it weren't that I'd have to explain it every time, I'd make this my new sig!
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Mothering › Mothering Forums › Childhood and Beyond › Preteens and Teens › forced bra wearing?-updates pg. 5 and 7