forced bra wearing?-updates pg. 5 and 7 - Page 5

[prettypixels]

Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog

It's all about choosing the right tool:

1. Bras are the right tool for shaping breasts, lifting them, and making them seem symmetrical.

2. Kicks to the groin and jabs to the eyeballs are the appropriate tools for dealing with boys or men who sexually assault girls or women.

Wearing a bra won't help ward off sexual assault any more than kicking a dude in the groin will give you perky, symmetrical boobs.

Mommyto3girls... I really don't see how a white supremacist protest is relevant to this discussion at all. That said... there are racists everywhere. There are bad people everywhere. And especially if I lived somewhere where there were heavy gang activity I'd want my daughters to know how to protect themselves, so that when a guy grabs their boob they can defend themselves instead of standing there and being a victim. (I want my kids to know how to protect themselves regardless... but I wouldn't let living in a less than desireable neighborhood make victims out of me or them.) I wouldn't want her to feel she has to dress in a certain way because someone, someday, "might" try to touch her. I want my kids to feel safe in their own skin, no matter what that skin looks like.

StormBride... *applause!* For sharing your experience! I had people make fun of my boobs too when I started getting them, and mine weren't even big.

[prettypixels]

Hippies and hippie wannabes????

[Momof3inMI]

My DD1 is 12 and it is her choice to wear a bra eveyday. I to wear one,butI am a Double F the last time I was fitted (I have gotten bigger since). I can hear boys make comments on her while in a bra. A bra has nothing to do with it. Boys look at that age or any age after purberty hits!
If your DD is comfortable going "Free" then the school should stay out of it! Next it will be girls need to shave their pits and legs. Heaven for bid they have co-ed swim....They might tell them you shave other spots too.:
This is NOT what school should be about! I am tired of schools telling out children how to dress with other that a basic dress code. School is for learning teachers are for teaching, not for giving us or our children their opinions (unless asked).

[numom499]

Originally Posted by aniT

I think it would really depend on what size your child is.

Say if she wears an A that is small and many adults that wear A's dont even wear bra's. But if the child wears a B or bigger, in my opionion she should be wearing a bra. On that note however, I don't think it is the schools business to tell you so. I mean a bra or undershirt? As long as her shirts are not see through what is an undershirt going to acomplish? :

You might try talking to the teacher to find out where she is coming from and go from there. Then if you still feel she has crossed the line, go from there.

I'm a 38d right now, and there are many days I don't wear a bra. I am so glad I am not in school....

[Nankay]

Holy moley, didn't know this would open such a can of worms! I appreciate all the points of view! I have NOT talked with the teacher yet (That will be today) and my daughter does not know about the note. As for teasing at school, no, I don't think so. DD is one who would tell me if she were being harassed or if someone had said anything. She hasn't had PE since last week, so I don't think that's the issue. I DO look to see if anything is noticeable , but with the things she wears I have never seen a nipple or areole at all. I "made' her pick either a bra or undershirt today to wear until I could get this all straightened out. She sighed, rolled her eyes, but put one on. (I couldn't see a difference) Personally, as for 'seeing" a nipple through clothing, I can't stop myself from thinking, 'so what??"

I'll keep you posted.

[Momof3inMI]

Sorry double post.

[Mommy Piadosa]

So many many great points- and many of you had me giggling too. But it was a sad laugh since I am aghast at the fact that anyone thinks that a child is responsible for another's thoughts.

How the hell do we teach girls at the age of eleven that their new breasts must be hidden, at all costs, from the roving eyes of uncontrollably masturbating sexstarved boys, and then expect them to proudly and confidently expose those breasts to feed their children five or ten or fifteen years later?

Yeah that!!!

There are hippie or hippie wannabes on this site who think they're questioning authority -- but a lot of time what I see is dismissing authority just to show everyone how (supposedly) cool, unconventional or otherwise free-spirited they are or for hippie group cred, without thinking through the rationale for the request or rule and making a logical decision whether it makes good sense to abide by it.

I'm a hippie and my dd is the hippie wanna be- yes I have taught her to question authority- and yes if she does not want to wear I bra I will never make her! I have thought about whether it makes sense to force a bra on an unwilling child- it does not especially since the reasoning is other people's reactions.

[bczmama]

What can I say -- sometimes the "hippier than thou" and "who can most live like its the Dark Ages with a modem" contingent start to wear...

I'm not ashamed!! I hate tie-dye, the Grateful Dead and incense and I'm not afraid to say it! Give me refined sugar, Ann Taylor clothes and smooth legs any day!!

I gotta talk to the mods about getting once of those hippie smilies with an X through it to represent my "tribe" (oh god, how I hate that -- might as well just call it a clique) of one.

[Nankay]

"To each, his own", bczmama. and I think this may be what this issue is truly about.

[Storm Bride]

Somehow, the whole thing about nipples showing went right past me. umm...I wore a pretty heavy-duty bra, because that was what was comfortable for me. My nipples still showed (still do today, in fact) a lot of the time. The bras that most of the girls wore at middle school age (we didn't have middle school) were incredibly thin, wispy things...if you could see the nipple and areolae through their shirt, you could see it through their bra, too. So, all a bra did was lift them up a bit.

Okay - can't believe I'm still posting. I can't believe anybody thinks that a note from a teacher saying "make your daughter wear a bra" with no explanation is acceptable...I can't believe that anybody thinks that making our daughters "hide" their breasts because otherwise pubescent boys might think about them is acceptable...I can't believe anybody thinks that bras "hide" breasts in the first place...I can't believe anybody thinks there is any force on this earth that will stop pubescent boys from thinking about breasts... wow...just...wow...

[prettypixels]

I can't believe that anyone would equate not wanting a teacher to dictate the state of their daughters breasts with the Grateful Dead and incense. I mean, seriously... wtf????

Hippier than thou??? Are you serious??? LOL!!!! I don't believe anyone resorted to calling you names Bczmama, surely we can debate like intelligent adults without such silly comments.

[mamaofthree]

OP: Is this crazy or what!

bczmama: If you want to wear Ann Taylor, shave your legs and wear a bra... be my guest. If I want to question unreasonable authority, be a hairy hippie booby hanging mom, I will do that too. No one called you names, or was nasty to you... your are being rude. :

Back to the topic... very well put. I don't think wearing a bra "hides" anything. If they are more comfortable for the woman/girl who wears them... wear them. If they are no... DON'T wear them. Your not a "hippie wanna be" for being comfortable. And you can still be a "hippie" if you wear a bra. That isn't some requirement.
I just recently had a talk with my dd (who is twelve) about what is and is not exceptable touching and questions. She is getting to an age where she is liking boys. She just started school and there will be some attention she will be getting. Like I have stated before... it is calledd EDUCATION if the parents are not doing it, the schools need to. NOT tell girls to wear burkas to keep boys from looking, but teaching what is OK and what is not. Bra snapping, boob grabbing, name calling, is not OK. It is wrong. If my dd got an unwanted boob grab, that boy would be hurting.

Anyway, I guess that is all I have to say. All I am doing now is repeating myself and getting all pissed off.
OP: I hope the talk with the teacher goes well. I hope you are doing good and I am glad to hear you dd isn't too phased by all of that. Good luck and hugs to you both!

H

[papercranegirl]

I would be upset if a teacher was checking the status of my daughter's underwear. I think it borders on sexual harassment. A lot of people still have nipple popping through even with a padded bra. I do. It is unacceptable to make your daughter feel uncomfortable about her changing body in an educational environment. If this was an issue of hygeine, a note would be appropriate but this is ridiculous.

[lml41981]

I have a problem with the idea that we should wear clothing to prevent the dirty thoughts or actions of other people. We already have too many women who won't report rapes and assault because they believe the sick idea that they somehow asked for it by wearing whatever it was they had on.

Also, I have a problem with the idea that an 11 year old girl ought to wear a padded bra to prevent visible nipples. She's 11...why make her breasts look larger and more appealing/sexy just to hide a little bit of nipple or areola?

Call the teacher and ask the reasoning behind the note. Maybe she is getting comments and she's too embarrassed to say anything. Or she could be getting comments and she is strong enough to just let them roll off her back. I do agree that there is no point in getting worked up prematurely.

[Just_Isabel]

I think that the teacher asking your daughter to wear a bra is . I don't wear a bra most of the time, I don't like them, they are tight on my back, they're bad for my circulation.

I agree with that the OP should talk with the teacher and ask for her reasons, but it was wrong for the teacher to demand her to make her daughter wear a bra or undershirt without giving one.

The reasoning about "boys will look, your daughter should cover up" makes no sense, that sounds like blaming the victim mentality.
I totally agree with the PPs who said that if the boys are an issue, better teach the girl to defend herself than to make her think she's responsible for a boy's lack of self-control!

[cottonwood]

What can I say -- sometimes the "hippier than thou" and "who can most live like its the Dark Ages with a modem" contingent start to wear...

I'm not ashamed!! I hate tie-dye, the Grateful Dead and incense and I'm not afraid to say it! Give me refined sugar, Ann Taylor clothes and smooth legs any day!!

Right! Because as long as you eat refined sugar, wear Ann Taylor, and shave your legs, there are no social and psychological ramifications to forcing a girl to disguise the shape of her breasts!

[MomInFlux]

FTR - I have small breasts. Today, for a business meeting, I wore a Blue Canoe cotton bra, a tank top, and a crisp white shirt. My nipples were still visible, but I'm pretty sure I didn't scandalize any of the 40-50 year old men in the meeting

Nankay - I think your daughter's teacher is nuts : Go get em!

Eightyferretoes - Yes, yes, yes! How crazy is it to teach our daughters to be ashamed of their bodies as adolescents, yet expect them to be proud of them as young women?

bczmama - you know where you're at, right? : MDC - THE NATURAL FAMILY LIVING COMMUNITY

[Nankay]

update

update --talk w/teacher

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I saw dd's teacher today. I said I was wondering why she felt the need to send a note home regarding dd's bra (or lack thereof). The teacher looked at me blankly and said, "because she's not wearing one." (Umm, ok, duh) I asked if that was a problem. Her answer was, "We wear bras when we have breasts. It's just a basic appropriate clothing/hygiene thing." I said I was trying very hard to not make this an issue for either dd or the teacher. I didn't want to force dd to wear a bra when she wasn't comfortable with one. The teacher again re-stated that it was a matter of dressing appropriately and that dd "would get used to wearing one ' if she had to everday. I told her that I would gently encourage dd to wear a bra or undershirt, but I would not FORCE her to wear one and left it at that.
I am determined not to make this a battle. The teacher can send home another note if she likes, but I think she knows now that she cannot force my dd to wear a bra just because she says so.

[Storm Bride]

How is it a hygiene thing???

I think you handled it really well. I honestly think I'd have blown my top and gone nuts!

[moondiapers]

My 10yo daughter wears a bra or undershirt everyday. If she forgets it's OBVIOUS. You can see the entire outline of her areola because she's got breast buds and her whole nip and areola protrude. The only time she doesn't need a bra is if she's wearing a sweater or sweat shirt.