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forced bra wearing?--updates pages 4 & 6 - Page 6

post #101 of 130
This is kinda OT, but the subject of "what the boys are thinking" has come up several times, so I thought I'd mention it.

When I was a teenager, I was into the heavy metal/hard rock scene. I mostly just got into the music, but occasionally I read some of the magazines. I remember reading an interview with someone from...Cinderella, maybe? He was asked what kind of girls he liked. I obviously don't remember his exact words, as this was about 20 years ago, but he commented that "rock hounds" (the "metal girls" - low cut shirts, tight jeans, lots of makeup, etc.) were a total turn off, and what really got him going was the "secretary or librarian" type. (Yes - I do realize this is major stereotyping.) He said that he liked long skirts, blouses that covered everything, glasses, little or no makeup, and severe hairstyles.

So....what are the boys thinking? Who knows? Depends on the boy, I'd say. I'm certainly not going to make dd think she's responsible for whatever's going through a boy's head.
post #102 of 130
Thanks everyone for the healthy breast links! I love this site.
post #103 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride

So....what are the boys thinking? Who knows? Depends on the boy, I'd say. I'm certainly not going to make dd think she's responsible for whatever's going through a boy's head.
EXCELLENT point and I totally agree. I have boys, so it's a little different. But I think it's very important for girls to understand the difference between acting in a safe manner - don't walk around drunk alone downtown, etc. and drawing a line between their actions and the *re*actions of other people.
post #104 of 130
I also have boys. I know which girl ds1 had a crush on last year, and it wasn't the "hot" one that people would expect to make boys think "like that". She was a little on the chunky side by today's standards, dressed nicely, but not "sexy", etc. (Actually, she's a great girl, and I'd love it if he wound up with someone like her, but that's beside the point.)
post #105 of 130
"We" tried not wearing a bra today, because "we" are easily influenced by mamas at MDC. "We" did not like it at all, and "we" were grateful to harness in the girls with cloth and an underwire!

:

That being said, that teacher is so far over the line she can't see it anymore :
post #106 of 130
"We" should try not wearing a bra for a period of two weeks or so. After years of wearing a bra, "we" found that it took some adjustment.
post #107 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joannarachel
"We" tried not wearing a bra today, because "we" are easily influenced by mamas at MDC. "We" did not like it at all, and "we" were grateful to harness in the girls with cloth and an underwire!

:

That being said, that teacher is so far over the line she can't see it anymore :
post #108 of 130
We are not wearing a bra today as we do not want to get mastitis. Our ducts are plugged! We are the braless, you will be assimilated!
post #109 of 130
Well we hate bras, but we have permerect nipples from nursing for so long, and we hate constantly looking "cold", so we wear a bra fairly often. Especially when our 6yo child tells us we are drooping.
post #110 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajody
Now onto my OT comment, since dress code was brought up, we had no dress code provision for undergarments at my old school, but we would send girls home for wearing thongs that showed above their pants. You couldn't see any of their butts, just the strap of the thing. Aside from the issue of 8-11 year olds even having the OPTION of wearing them, never mind to school, do you think it was OK to send these girls home to change? What affect do you think seeing the girls underwaer had on the boys. The OP's DD doesn't wear a bra, her choice. But don't think the boys haven't noticed who does and who doesn't and who "should be" but isn't. Don't you remember having your bra snapped by some idiot? How about having them go to snap it, and you aren't wearing one? You wanna hear teasing? That would do it. Motifying.

.
I was thinking of the dress code at my school. It says you can't have under garment showing. So, a kid might be more in line with the dress code by not wearing under garment than if they had something showing! I doubt the dress code says anything about this. I teach 6th grade, too, and I have to say I have never noticed the state of the breasts in our room, except when a girl breaks the dresscode with a low cut top!
post #111 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog
We are the braless, you will be assimilated!
Resistance if futile :
post #112 of 130
Robin926,

I know you aren't picking on me, but I want to look at an issue that you brought up in these passages:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin926
If I choose to dress a certain way, and it affects a male in a certain way, it's not my fault. It is HIS choice to be affected, to have whatever thoughts he has. The way I dress, including whether or not to wear a bra or for my underwear to show (although I don't do the thong out of the pants thing anyway), is something that I do for myself, my own comfort, my own sense of style, whatever. It seems to be not a far cry from "Well, she deserved to be assaulted; she dressed like a slut!"

I just don't think it's a good idea to put other people's hangups onto our daughters like that. Especially when you can dress "appropriately" and keep your early-developing breasts in a bra, your age-appropriate underwear well hidden, and your developing body completely covered by shapeless clothing, and some boys are still going to tease, grope, or otherwise inappropriately harrass a girl. It really isn't about what she is or isn't wearing, kwim?
I think this is projecting very adult attitudes onto elementary school children. These kids don't have "hang-ups" yet, but they are learning them. We are talking about newly hormonal adolescents who are greatly influenced by media, and their peer group. I am not suggesting our daughters should be forced to dress in shapeless ugly clothing to prevent boys from having unclean thoughts. I was giving an example of young girls wearing sexually suggetive clothing to class. I should also have mentioned that boys in that school aren't allowed to sag their pants to the point where their boxers were visible. This due to young men literally hanging out of their pants. Frankly I am shaking my head at the thought that any parent would think it was ok for their ELEMENTARY school student to wear sexually suggestive clothing, or clothing of any kind in a sexually suggestive way, and call it for their comfort. I think situations like these are a distraction to both sexes at a time when they are not socially or emotionally equipped to cope with them, and I don't think it belongs in the classroom.

This being said, the OP's daughter hasn't done anything inappropriate, or immodest, but I think the teacher may have acted initially to protect her from situations like this.

BTW, I graduated in 94, so I was there for the same fashion crazes you were, and yes, when I was 10, 11, 12 I found it very confusing as to why ANYBODY would want to show their underwear, or why they were allowed to do it by their parents. I wasn't some prudish shrinking violet that never wore anything tight either. And I didn't wear a bra until 11 grade with the exception of gym class. Why? I didn't need it, and that was totally obvious to everyone. I didn't much care.

To the PP who mentioned how the boys stuck up for her: You had a great bunch of guys in your class, good for them, I am sure they have turned into wonderful men and fathers. I hope they teach their kids the way they were taught. The behavior of the girls in your class was just awful. I wonder why the teachers didn't take a more active role in stopping stuff like that. I know mine did, and I know I myself did. Often writing discreet notes home to parents in an attempt to head off real trouble before it happened. hmmmmmm
post #113 of 130
Thread Starter 

another update

I had dd in for her annual physical and I must say we have the coolest ped. in the world. I brought up the teacher's note and she was PO'd She said "there's no evidence that a bra is EVER necessary! That's sooo not any of her business! Do you want me to write a note?! " and "I am angry about that for you!"
Wow...hmm..I should have asked if she was posting on this board.

My DH saw the note but didn't say anything to me until tonight. He was waiting for my reaction. HE was PO'd too. Before I said anything, he said, "That's way out of her area to say anything like that, isn't it?! Is that any of her business??"

YAY hubby!
post #114 of 130
I'd have to do like my mother always did when the teachers sent home "off" notes about me. One time the principal called my parents in for a conference because my hairstyle was "disrupting the school". I had hot pink hair, but there was nothing against it in the dress code so there wasn't really anything they could do. Anyway, Mom shaved all of her hair off in a crewcut and showed up for the meeting like that. Then she made the principal cry

I'd meet with the teacher very obviously not wearing a bra (pregnancy has made me an H cup--it's obvious if I don't wear one) and challenge her on why she thinks bras are necessary.
post #115 of 130
I'm just : at the updates. Seriously I'm speechless. I think you handled it well. I'm at that teacher, though. First, she's staring pretty intently to even figure out your DD isn't wearing a bra, which is just creepy and gross. Second, she's pushing her beliefs on your family. Third, she's acting like it's no big deal and that's how everyone must think!

I wouldn't even know what to say in a situation like that.

Do they also require girls to shave their pits and legs? Are they going to dictate what type of menstrual supplies she uses? :
post #116 of 130
That teacher is way out of line! It sounds like it's her own personal issue. I remember getting pressure from other girls in my class when I was 11 and caving to that pressure, but the idea of having a teacher send home a note and then say some awful thing like, "We wear bras when we have breasts" is ridiculous. That is a choice that many make, like shaving their legs with a razor sharp piece of metal, but it's not mandatory.

I may have missed this, but is your Dd aware of what the teacher has said? I hope not. I would talk to the teacher and tell her not to mention it to my Dd. If I felt that she wasn't getting it, I would tell her that I was going to talk to her supervisor. I would make it an issue before I'd let her be twisted with my daughter's development.
post #117 of 130
I am constantly then then
I am so concerned over my previous behavior as a teacher before children. I am curious if the teacher has children? Because I thought that I knew kids until I had kids and then I realized I previously was full of
This thread is so important because we are the ultimate teacher of our children and we must remind our teacher friends while we respect their opinions that they(their opinions) are just that. I was always taught when talking to a parent about their child to say words like "What can we do to make this better," thus allowing the parent to make the descision.
Good Luck Nankay!
post #118 of 130
Thread Starter 
In answer to a couple of pp's questions...

No, DD doesn't know about the note. She would be mortified. The teacher has 3 kids all college age..she is in her late 40's .
post #119 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nankay
In answer to a couple of pp's questions...

No, DD doesn't know about the note. She would be mortified. The teacher has 3 kids all college age..she is in her late 40's .
I think your instincts are right on this one and am very glad you're handling it so well. It's no small matter how women's breasts are perceived in this culture.

I was at a beach in Europe once and there happened to be an international motorcycle conference there with thousands of bikers. I saw a mom, dad, and pubescent girl standing on the upper board walk, all topless, just surveying the scene of so many bikes and bikers. Thye were all soooo very casual and unaware of their bodies and I thought how very self-conscious our culture virtually forces us to be, particularly as we are developing. I think it's terrible, yet people assume that's the way it has to be. It does not.

I wish I would have been able to be so free when I was developing to just stand there topless around thousands of bikers, not to mention both my mom and dad. Wow, fantastic. None of the bikers thought anything about it, either. "É normal!"
post #120 of 130
I know many adult women who do not wear bras. (I only wish I could get away with it but I'm too large and uncomfortable w/o one ). I don't think it's anyone's business whether your daughter wears a bra or not. If the girl is being teased, etc., then I could see the teacher possibly mentioning it to you. I think the teacher should have offered an explanation for her request.

Oops..posted this w/o realizing there were 6 pages here. Anyway from just reading the first page, this is my opinion...
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