Kefir in ultrapasteurized milk?

[Plummeting]

I absolutely already know that this is totally subpar, but I still want to know if it's possible, long term. DD absolutely cannot tolerate cow's milk, even raw, even raw cow's milk kefir. She can tolerate goat's milk, but the nearest goat dairy is 3 hours away and I simply do not have the freezer space to keep large amounts of it or the money to take a trip up there every couple of weeks. I've been growing the grains and feeding tiny pieces to her in yogurt, but it takes so long to get enough for us to eat them! (I have to do the same because she's still nursing.) Our grocery stores only sell ultra-pasteurized goat's milk, so I bought some and tried it. It definitely works. It tastes just like the cow's milk kefir, gets effervescent and all that other good stuff. It takes longer, though - much longer.

So anyway, my real question is if this will eventually kill my grains. Will the lack of usable vitamins and minerals eventually kill my grains? If so, can I go back and forth between cow's milk (raw and sometimes pasteurized) and the UP goat's milk?

[elelvee]

Yes if you can get UHT milk to do something still give it some real nutrients as often as you can afford to go.

Is there really no store selling regular-pasteurized milk?! Wow.

Can you trade trips to the dairy with someone else = car pool?

You might go back-n-forth with raw milk and coconut milk. It should be a lot easier to find than raw milk.

[Plummeting]

There are stores selling regular pasteurized cow's milk, just not regular pasteurized goat's milk.

[bluets]

there has been some discussion on dom's yahoo kefir list about doing a round of kefiring in coconut milk - it is supposed to increase the creaminess of the result. i just did this and found that folks are correct. also, according to the ones in the know, using pasteurized or ultrapasteurized milk for kefir won't kill the grains - in fact, kefiring said milk will actually add vitamins/minerals back into the milk.

[tboroson]

bluets, could you clarify your point for me, please? Do you mean, if I take my grains and kefir coconut milk with them for one round, then return them to milk as usual, my milk kefir will turn out more creamy? I've been meaning to try coconut milk kefir anyway. I love goat's milk kefir, it always turns out thick and creamy for me. Cow's milk always turns curdy and won't strain. So, if I'm understanding you correctly and doing this will make cow's milk kefir creamier, I'm in!

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by tboroson

I love goat's milk kefir, it always turns out thick and creamy for me. Cow's milk always turns curdy and won't strain.

I had also noticed that cow's milk kefir gets more curds in it. I thought it was just me. My goat's milk kefir never does that. Well, not unless I leave it for waaaayyyyy too long. I guess that's evidence of the difference in proteins?

[bluets]

Originally Posted by tboroson

bluets, could you clarify your point for me, please? Do you mean, if I take my grains and kefir coconut milk with them for one round, then return them to milk as usual, my milk kefir will turn out more creamy? I've been meaning to try coconut milk kefir anyway. I love goat's milk kefir, it always turns out thick and creamy for me. Cow's milk always turns curdy and won't strain. So, if I'm understanding you correctly and doing this will make cow's milk kefir creamier, I'm in!

theoretically, yes. be advised (speaking from experience here) that coconut milk kefir separates A LOT faster than cow's milk kefir. and if you let it ferment as long as you would let cow's milk kefir ferment, then you'll get really coarse grainy coconut milk kefir. and this is why i just finished a round of 1/2 organic UHT heavy whipping cream and 1/2 organic whole milk (also UHT); first 12 hours on the counter, 2nd 12 hours in the fridge - made for a super creamy product.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

I had also noticed that cow's milk kefir gets more curds in it. I thought it was just me. My goat's milk kefir never does that. Well, not unless I leave it for waaaayyyyy too long. I guess that's evidence of the difference in proteins?

i'm going to go out on a limb and say that it isn't different proteins, per se. my hunch is that the proteins are themselves the same, it is just that they have different sizes and conformations in different animal species. first, both GenBank and the Protein DataBank only have limited entries on this topic. second, i have only perused them for casein data, not much else.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by bluets

i'm going to go out on a limb and say that it isn't different proteins, per se. my hunch is that the proteins are themselves the same, it is just that they have different sizes and conformations in different animal species. first, both GenBank and the Protein DataBank only have limited entries on this topic. second, i have only perused them for casein data, not much else.

Yes, they are basically the same, with the main difference being the size of the casein and lactalbumin structures, but that didn't seem relevant when I posted.

[xenabyte]

From what I have read/experimented with:

Goats milk is totally fine long term and the grains will adapt to the proteins in it just fine. As a matter of fact, some kefir used to be 'raised' in mare's milk...so if you have any lactating horses around....

I used to let my regular cow milk kefir sit in coconut milk once or twice a month, and yes, it resulted in super creamy kefir the next time I had them in cow milk....plus it makes for yummy smoothies.

It's mainly when you take a 'milk based' kefir and let it sit in non dairy products for too long, or too often that the bacteria/yeasts get kinda wonky and upset.

....and you might end up with a more 'yeasty' brew down the road, as the extra sugars in non dairy tend to feed those cultures more...(ie, like grape/fruit juice soaks and such)