Bad midwife, glowing recc. What to do?

[Daisie125]

There is a midwife I know of... let's just call her Liz. I am not one to badmouth someone, expecially in public, but I need some advice.

I have heard horrible stories about Liz from many different sources, including people who have birthed with her, people who have worked with her, and people who have handled major complaints about her.

We are talking about things like missing births (like MANY with no warning, so many she lost some credentials) is very hands on if you aren't birthing the way she thinks you should, has a tendancy to rub people the wrong way and in general a risky choice (expecially since there are many other midwives around her)

In spite all of this, I see & hear glowing reccomendations for Liz ALL the time. Obviously, she can't be all bad, but I cannot imagine so many different & reputable people having so many awful things to say about her if they aren't true.

I see people giving these great reccomendations for her, and I cringe. I don't know if I should PM the people asking and give them another opinion, or if I should just keep my mouth shut. I'd hate to hear of someone having a terrible birth knowing I could have said something, but I also hate to "bash" someone when I don't have first hand knowladge....

Any input is welcome.

[kerikadi]

This is my opinion
Because you have not personally worked with this midwife you cannot give a first hand account. If you see someone ask about her I would refer that person to someone you know who has worked with her. You could say something like "If you are interested in working with Liz, you might want to talk with my friend Jane that birthed with her last year."

Second hand information is just that, second hand and as a homebirthing woman I would rather hear the whole story straight from the horses mouth.

I have heard through the grapevine that at least one person has dissed my MW on the internet. I personally cannot imagine that. Every Mama I konw that has worked with this MW has been happy with their care, this will be my 3rd birth with her and cannot imagine it without her. I love my MW but obviously not everybody does.

I guess my point is that the information should come from the Mamas with first hand experience with this midwife.

Keri

[JanetF]

This is complex stuff especially given how difficult the position of midwifery is in our communities. I wonder how you or others around you would feel if she were a different birth professional, say a surgeon? Sometimes I see a lot more public criticism (even with names) of surgeons than I do of MWs because so many women are unwilling to speak out when they have had poor experiences. It's not popular in hbing communities to be critical. Before my first birth I only heard glowing stories of the MW I'd chosen but afterwards (after she showed no interest in supporting me when I was suicidal with PTSD after a TF to c-sec from a hb on her recommendation) I heard from a number of women who hadn't liked her style or manner much. Sometimes it's a "horses for courses" thing and some personalities are going to gel better than others. Sometimes however the MW is crap and anyone wronged by her should have no hesitation in saying so to help other women avoid being traumatised or endangered by her. Tough call but I come down on the side of the consumer, not the professional. Doesn't give us a license to slag someone but does mean we have a duty of care to other women to not be silent if we have reasonable grounds for complaint. Definitely refer anyone you know to someone who's complained!

[pigpokey]

Hard dilemma.

[Defenestrator]

There are probably 20 homebirth midwives within 60 miles of my house. I am a new midwife, in practice for about a year and a half, and boy has my perspective changed on midwife rumors since I became a midwife myself.

I have gotten a whole new level of access to malicious information about my fellow midwives and the one thing that I have noticed is that there is a pretty direct relationship between the amount of competition in an area and the amount of negative information that circulates about my fellow midwives. In my little town we went from 2 midwifery practices to 6 within a year and what was a supportive, laid-back environment is getting more cutthroat. I also see rumors persist long after the information that they convey is no longer valid/relevant, like the rumor about a local midwife who opened her practice with very few births under her belt (but who now has far more than any other newbie midwife would several years later).

Sometimes great midwives get burnt out and provide rotten care. Sometimes decent midwives have major life crises and provide rotten care and then resolve their life crisis and provide excellent care again. I think that women with direct experience with these midwives should speak loudly and clearly and tell their bad stories. Absolutely. But I have seen how the rumor beast can get out of hand and how much it is fed by factors that don't have anything to do with the way that a midwife serves her clients. Once those stories start to get retold by other people they gain a life of their own.

In my area, there are a couple of midwives who don't get along. One of them has almost made a hobby out of shaming and slandering the other one. An effort of such energy and passion usually has a lot more to do with the slanderer's issues than with the slanderee.

I guess what I am saying is that I, personally, have taken a vow not to feed that beast. It is impossible to know how much second or third-hand information was altered by the perspective of the person who originally experienced it or the bias of their acquaintances. A story about a woman who hemmorhaged and was cared for at home can be a story about a midwife who spent all day with her client postpartum and nurtured her and helped build her body back up to stability with low-tech methods, preserving her original wishes to stay home, or it can be a story about a midwife who allowed a woman to bleed a lot and didn't take action to get her the most efficient, powerful help.

So, when I see people looking for a midwife in my area (or another area I know well) and I see a midwife I am not fond of recommended, I usually try to respond with another very positive, detailed recommendation. If I really feel there is something I want to share with a homebirther, I will advise them to ask really specific questions that focus on the big issues or area of danger. "Have you ever missed a homebirth?" How many times? Why did that happen? Have you ever had a baby admitted after you left the house? Why did that happen? Have you ever had a woman tell you she was not happy with your care? etc.

[Snowdrift]

I was on the receiving end of some advice to steer clear from a particular midwife because, according to the person I talked to, she was highly interventive and unwilling to avoid certain interventions. I ended up not talking to that midwife for that among other reasons.

Then I met and became very friendly with a woman who had a phenomenally wonderful experience with that midwife.

Then I ended up gratefully accepting the *very same* intervention from the midwife I ended up choosing. It made the last twelve hours of my labor *so* much easier and more productive. I really kind of regret having listened to the first woman's advice.

I'm happy with the midwife I ended up with--very happy, and will use her again, but I think that one woman's experience is not necessarily informative.

She misses births? Is she willing to take on client who perhaps live further away than may be feasible to reach quickly?

She is interventive? With good results or poor? My birth was in some ways highly interventive, but I ended up with a 33 hour labor. If I'd had a UC style totally hands-off birth it could have taken much, much longer (babe was posterior/asynclitic--midwife helped position her through various interventions. I've read of UC's where the babe took days to reposition herself.)

I know a few local personally who have told me thier detailed birth stories and in one case I would not want that midwife anywhere near me. Most of the others, it all varies with the woman's perceptions.

So I agree, if you have qualms, refer anyone who is thinking about hiring her to talk to someone who has had her for a birth. Second hand information about this stuff is probably not very good.

[Guest*]

I know a midwife like you describe. While my experience with her was mostly positive, she's done some things out of the scope of midwifery with disasterous results, so I no longer recommend her. Unless someone asks me personally for my opinion, I don't say anything. I usually cringe and hope they're willing to educate themselves enough to avoid some risky recommendations she may make.

It's too bad that quite a few of us have this dilemma to deal with. It probably wouldn't be such a hard decision if midwifery weren't so fragile. I'm assuming most of us only want to promote the profession and do what we can to encourage it's growth and credibility, so we are at a loss when we meet or learn of a midwife who doesn't uphold or seem to value the highest midwifery standards.

[alegna]

I started out with a "Liz" Glowing reviews. She answered all my questions right. She was not at all who she made herself out to be. BUT my info is first hand. I agree with the pp who said- put the first hand people together.

What I do is offer that I used her for a bit and open myself to their pm/email/call etc if they want more info. I don't post anything outright negative online (I may have posted once or twice that I just wasn't pleased, pm me for more info)

-Angela

[abclan]

Because you have had no first hand experience about her, I do not feel it is appropiate to speak negitively about her. However, I would enthusiatically suggest a potential client seek several midwives before making a choice.

This type of situation is no fun - been there.

[MamaSong]

Giving birth is physically,emotionally and spiritually challenging. Women are forced to stretch, grow and change into mothers. I think that some women meet this challenge with grace and others do not. And, I believe that this is where some "issues" with MW's come up. I think that some women like to lay too much responsibility back on the MW when labor and birth do not go as planned. I guess that's my round-about way of saying that I agree with everyone else -that unless you were there - then you really don't know.

[Kellym]

I agree with those who have said that you haven't personally worked with her so you really can't speak from first hand experience. I agree with Defenestrator that in this area, it is getting more and more cut throat. The anger and animosity between midwives has gone to an all new high (or low, depending on which way you want to look at it). Rumors start and have no real basis or are so twisted that it would make you sick. A midwife friend of mine had this happen (and if you live in this area, you very likely could be talking about her). I'd love to help set the record straight. She was an hour from a birth and the lady called and said she was in labor. She had been working with this apprentice for several years and sent her on ahead to assess the situation. She also had delivered 2 previous babies with this woman and both of those were long labors. The apprentice didn't call and when she DID call, it was too late. This woman went VERY quickly and the mw would have never made it on time, even had she left promptly at the first call from the client. The midwife didn't have time to get there and ended up arriving just moments after the birth. The lady had a great birth experience and even sent an email to the midwife praising the apprentice and saying she was so pleased with her experience. In comes a rival mw who has had issues with the main mw for many years. She placed fear into this lady (who had the PERFECT birth mind you) on all the 'What if's that could have happened. The 2nd mw contacted the midwife group and the main mw had to do a lot of fighting on her end. This has long passed but the animosity and rumors still fly. Rumors are just that though....rumors! If you haven't dealt with the midwife personally, please be careful at the mudslinging and mw bashing. Remember that this is an organization that is supposed to thrive on caring, compassion and women's choices, not on anger, animosity and revenge. To fuel that only damages the whole mw community and art of midwifery.

[Full Heart]

I like to say that there is a mw for every woman. Liz might not be the kind of mw some women want but just the mw other women need. If someone asked You directly tell them you have no personal experience but here is the name and # of someone who does (given with that persons permission of course). Of course interviewing that mw is also a good idea even if the reviews aren't that great. Give her a chance to speak for herself.

[Momof3Girlz]

Originally Posted by Full Heart

I like to say that there is a mw for every woman. Liz might not be the kind of mw some women want but just the mw other women need. If someone asked You directly tell them you have no personal experience but here is the name and # of someone who does (given with that persons permission of course). Of course interviewing that mw is also a good idea even if the reviews aren't that great. Give her a chance to speak for herself.

I love what you're saying here.

[pamamidwife]

Originally Posted by Defenestrator

Sometimes great midwives get burnt out and provide rotten care. Sometimes decent midwives have major life crises and provide rotten care and then resolve their life crisis and provide excellent care again. I think that women with direct experience with these midwives should speak loudly and clearly and tell their bad stories. .

this is SO true...and it's true for me.

I think that firsthand accounts of care is vital. I think referring someone to talk to a mother that had her own experience with said midwife is so vital. Heresay is difficult to pass on without facts getting mixed up, feelings get in the way, exaggerations being told.

Besides, I think that we should all be accountable for speaking out against poor care. Obviously, if the midwife in question isn't willing to listen, there has to be an outlet for supporting a woman and her experiences - even if they are negative with a *gasp* - homebirth midwife!

[BetsyPage]

Wow, I'm in Ann Arbor and had a homebirth... my MW was completely new to the area and I had a great experience. I got a recommendation for her from another local MW that someone I know used and had a good experience with. I'm glad I didn't call around too much, it would have been really confusing to hear good/bad from different sources. But I was shocked to learn *how many* MWs there are here after I had my baby!

[rnchrista]

[QUOTE=Defenestrator]

I have gotten a whole new level of access to malicious information about my fellow midwives and the one thing that I have noticed is that there is a pretty direct relationship between the amount of competition in an area and the amount of negative information that circulates about my fellow midwives. In my little town we went from 2 midwifery practices to 6 within a year and what was a supportive, laid-back environment is getting more cutthroat. I also see rumors persist long after the information that they convey is no longer valid/relevant, like the rumor about a local midwife who opened her practice with very few births under her belt (but who now has far more than any other newbie midwife would several years later).

QUOTE]

uh, oh, should I be having 2nd thoughts about this?
I've got enought stress in my life without having to worry about scandulous, soap opera stuff. I dont want to be caught in the middle of that.

[maciascl]

The mw I had with DS was the same way, some love her, others hate her. I personally did not go back to her because I had some minor issues with her during my prenatal care & then did not feel she did her job well at my birth. I mean she delivered my baby fine, the technical stuff was no problem, but I felt abandoned when I didn't want to be & should not have been. I also have heard many stories from friends who also saw her that were not good. In spite of this some people still really like her. I think it just depends on the person & their experience.

However the missing birth is serious!!! That is something I would want to know about my mw. If you know someone planning to use this mw, you don't have to really bad mouth her, but mention that you've heard she has missed births fro no real reason. I personally would appreciate that information. If I had known more about my last mw & knew that I had other options I would not have continued to see her.