Slight rant about NT-type books (even though I mostly agree with them!)

[OHmidwife]

Hi all
I’m happy to find this forum. I was introduced to this type of eating by Nina Planck’s book, Real Food: What to Eat and Why. I’ve been reading here off and on for a few weeks and it seems everyone here is into Fallon’s NT book, so I recently got it from the library. I’m happy to see there is a cookbook for this type of eating, but I have to say I’m a little disappointed with NT. First, I don’t like the way it is organized. I wish all the nutrition info was in one part of the book, and the recipes in another. I find all the little sidebars annoying, especially the “guess what these crappy ingredients are” ones. Yeah, we already know industrial food is full of fake stuff. You’re preaching to the choir, lady.

The other thing that bugs me is that there seems to be a bunch of junk science mixed in with the good info, eg: there is a sidebar about how the rise in suicide rate after 1968 is attributable to the increase in sugar in kids diets. While I’m sure it’s possible that that is a contributing factor, there are way too many variables to jump to that conclusion. Planck’s book is guilty of this to some degree too- science mixed with pseudo-science and personal opinions. I'm a science girl. I want the facts. I don't want to base my diet on other peoples opinions. Oh well. I still like both books overall and I’ve been seeking grass-fed meat, eggs, etc, eating more coconut products, and cutting out all those polyunsaturated oils that I used to think were good for me. Also, eating more really dark chocolate.
Anyhow, sorry to make one of my first posts here a rant about these books. I’m just curious of anyone else felt the same way. Also, I haven’t seen Planck’s book mentioned much here and am wondering what others think of it.

[TopazBlueMama]

Hi and welcome!

I haven't read Planck's books before.
I know it is frustrating being a recipient of the nutrition world! I don't know, I guess I've just gotten over it all after reading so many "facts" and theories in all the books. Really, they are all just men and women who have put together in one place all the things they have studied or discovered. But I do usually still find at least one hidden treasure in them all to take away for myself.
But I know, I totally wish there was one perfect book that laid it all out for us to take out the guess work. Oh well, we'll keep dreaming! Too bad we're all not cookie cutters and the same!

[aprilibarra]

i just finished mine copy today. I like the sidebars and she does have a very extensive bibliography. I like the book and i like the recipes, but I didn't like seeing recipes calling for white sugar and every third vegi recipe involving some sweet additive. Didn't she just say to try to not have sweet and to try to not be addicted to sugar? But we live in a fallen world, she can't please everyone.
But i have to say, i've studying nutrition since i was twelve, and this really knocked me off my feet.

[kmamma]

While no book is perfect, including Sally Fallon's, I do have to say that it met most of my expectations. Personally I love the layout of the book, especially the sidebars. I disagree that she is preaching to the choir--just check the profits of any junk food manufacturer! Even for us more nutritionally enlightened folks, it helps to be reminded about just why it's so bad for us.

My only complaint is that not all the recipes are tried and true, and I know many of you agree with me on that.

As for the science, I have not checked any of the studies to see which ones hold and don't, but it's fair to say that all studies have countless variables that are not always considered. Although I also am a bit of a science girl, I acknowledge that the scientific method is just that, a method of inquiry that isn't 100% fool proof, so I sometimes go with less scientifical methods of inquiry...

[saratc]

Welcome, Blayne!

The thing is, for many, NT was the first book of its kind that we read and what got us into leading the WAP/NT lifestyle. True WAP's been around for awhile, but somehow, websites and foundations just don't have the same impact as books do.

There's actually a thread here that discusses a bit about what people like and dislike about Sally Fallon's works and other books. After rereading NT and being on an NT/WAP way of eating for awhile now, I too have some gripes about the NT book. But I am neverless grateful that there are books out there like that and probably would choose that as one of the best primers for recruiting some of my friends who are eating a mainstream diet -- TV dinners, fast food and diet sodas, blech!

[spughy]

I agree - my beef with Fallon's book is that it preaches good nutrition but completely ignores the perils of physical inactivity - and doesn't even mention this as a possible cause of declining health, esp. cardiovascular health. Physical inactivity has been on the rise for as long as polyunsaturated oils and IMHO equally to blame for the ills of society etc. etc. I honestly don't think you can rely on even a strict NT diet for health without some form of regular physical activity.

K, thanks for the rant arena!

[lilsparrow]

I just finished Nourishing Traditions. I enjoyed it and found it to be very enlightening. This is coming from somone with no prior nutritional knowledge. A typical lunch for me was a snickers and a coke. I had never heard of WP. When I encountered the "novel concept" of eating what you are supposed to eat (that has been eating what it was supposed to have been eating,) I felt the lightbulb go off, while blinders fell off. In that DEEP TRUTH recognizing way. It was a spiritual moment for me, one that led me to praise God.

I don't feel that it was the book so much that God chose that moment and that particular book to open my eyes to a NEW WAY OF THINKING. (Thank you, Jesus.) But that he could have used any way He chose. For me, it was that one and I am grateful to Sally that she wrote the book, with it's inviting and appealing cover, and especially that "crash course" intro.

That said, I felt that an author whose topic is nutrition would have more positive things to say about breastmilk. Most of her comments seemed to even kind of have a negative vibe to it. And she did not one time state the positive health benefits of breastfeeding. There was one sentence where I thought she would, but she ended it with saying that breastmilk was deficient in a particular vitamin (can't remember which one.) I refuse to believe that. I believe it is a baby's perfect food. And although she didn't come out and say it, it seemed like she only mentioned breastfeeding reluctantly and with resentment. I could be wrong, but that's the vibe I got.

The sidebars, I read on the potty. They are short and can be read in short spurts. No pun intended. I thought she kind of presented this way of eating as the world solution to all the problems, which I found kind of self aggrandizing (is that a word?)

As for the "guess the product" sections, I thought would have been cool if the pages were referenced. That way I could have looked at the list of products and chose the ones I wanted to learn more about.

I've left the book with the a desire to eat healthier, and actually looking forward to doing so. I will be concentrating on eating grassfed meat and eggs, raw dairy, organic fruits and vegetables and eliminating sugar and refined foods. I am still on the fence about the broth. Just am not sure if it's worth all the effort. I am REALLY BUSY! I am not doing the CLO at this point, it just sounds gross! But that may change.

[guestmama9916]

Originally Posted by lilsparrow

I am still on the fence about the broth. Just am not sure if it's worth all the effort. I am REALLY BUSY! I am not doing the CLO at this point, it just sounds gross! But that may change.

Lilsparrow - Your experience sounds very similar to mine with the exception that I found the WAP website and started reading that. I've never been this passionate about nutrition before in my life. I do believe it must be Divine Intervention. I just wanted to say that the CLO isn't as bad as you may think. I had my first dose of it yesterday. I bought the cinammon tingle flavor. I only took the recommended dose of 1/2 tsp which is a very small amount and not hard to swallow. I don't even like fish but the CLO didn't bother me in the least. As far as the broths go, I'm in the same boat as you (I'm a full time WOHM). However, I did see organic bone broths in the organic section of my grocery store so I think I'll give those a try until I get a chance to make some on my own.

Kim

[Wolfmeis]

Junk science makes me crazier than just about anything else.

It especially bothers me in this book (among others) because I would assert that on the whole, NT and books like it have it right. The tone of the book comes across as angry to me, and the sidebars came off as more of the attention-grabbing infotainment fluff.

The only reason that would bother me at all is because it will definitely prevent me from recommending the book to my less-than-crunchy companions who would otherwise pay attention. When one starts stacking half-truths in there, it's harder to receive the greater message.

I'm actually glad that I read it (a RT good friend loaned me her copy, thank you ma'am), because it's substantive message echoes books that I have read and really enjoyed; books and nutrition information that have informed our entire diet. It is refreshing to at least know where I am compared to people on here who are saying things like "NT-legal" and whatnot.

ETA: went to the other thread mentioned here, and it's a great discussion!

[Ruthla]

I personally found Eat Fat, Lose Fat to be much more readable than NT, though I'm still not 100% happy with the layout, nor do I agree with her extensive use of coconut oil as a supplement.

[Panserbjorne]

Wolfmeis- you are dead on. It comes across even more in other lectures Fallon does. She is an aggressive person and relies very heavily on the psuedo-science. I wish the tone was very different, but I also wish she could have stuck to the facts.

I also feel the negativity about the breastfeeding. It really gets my goat.

[Panserbjorne]

Ruthla, you mean you aren't over there eating a pound of coconut at a time? It is a far better read IMO. I do use coconut oil, but not nearly as mcuh as she would have me do and I use ALOT!

[lilsparrow]

Originally Posted by kimbernet

Lilsparrow - Your experience sounds very similar to mine with the exception that I found the WAP website and started reading that. I've never been this passionate about nutrition before in my life. I do believe it must be Divine Intervention. I just wanted to say that the CLO isn't as bad as you may think. I had my first dose of it yesterday. I bought the cinammon tingle flavor. I only took the recommended dose of 1/2 tsp which is a very small amount and not hard to swallow. I don't even like fish but the CLO didn't bother me in the least. As far as the broths go, I'm in the same boat as you (I'm a full time WOHM). However, I did see organic bone broths in the organic section of my grocery store so I think I'll give those a try until I get a chance to make some on my own.

Kim

The organic bone broths sound like a good idea!

[yitlan]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I personally found Eat Fat, Lose Fat to be much more readable than NT, though I'm still not 100% happy with the layout, nor do I agree with her extensive use of coconut oil as a supplement.

I never recommend NT to interested friends. I only recommend chapter five of EFLF. And I try to emphasize that coconut is the focus of that book, but not necessarily traditional diets, though I use coconut oil quite a bit.

[Persephone]

Yes, as an introduction to NT styles of eating, I'd recommend Real Food or Full Moon Feast over NT. However, I do like the beginning part of NT for it's quick run down of the basic principles of the diet. And of the few recipes I've tried, I liked them. And I liked the sidebars, cause it repeated some of the stuff that I'd felt for a while that I couldn't verbalize.

[Fermentula]

I second the comment about Full Moon Feast! I feel it is the best representation of the NT-diet because it is well written, easy to read, and the recipes have actually been tested.

Speaking of Full Moon Feast, has anyone checked out www.threestonehearth.com which is Jessica Prentice's community supported kitchen in San Francisco. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it on this site yet. You can't order things to be shipped to you, so it only works for people in the Bay Area but I always love looking at what they have offered every week and it gives me recipe ideas. Most of the things they sell are recipes either directly from or variations of items in Full Moon Feast.

My 2 cents,
Marc

[Kittymom]

Yes, I am also frustrated. I can't seem to find a single book or website on what I consider to be good nutrition that I would use to try to persuade my son's scientist grandparents. I can't even convince them that refined white sugar really is different from eating other forms of sugar, and there is nothing I have found that would sound credible to a scientist. They always mix in too many junk science statements or pure inaccuracies. Sigh.

[provocativa]

Have y'all read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration? Or Pottenger's work? Or the Framingham Heart Study? I agree Fallon's style pushes the envelope, but the bibliographies are fine starting places for more scientific inquiry.

[ConsCathMamma]

So, I am a newbie (I just bought raw milk for the first time today) and am trying to transition into a real foods diet. I have read a ton at the WAP site, and as soon as we get the Amazon gift card from our credit card points in the mail, I was planning on ordering Nourishing Traditions. I am pretty well convinced of the nutritional superiority of the foods WAP endorses. The junk science is why I would be selective in how to present these options to others, but after reading enough of the science stuff, really, the philosophical nature of it all took over. It just fell in line with my other choices: when we try to improve on God's design, we screw things up! But, I agree, the junk science inserted in things is annoying.

However, I do need to buy some sort of book as a guide for implementing these changes. I have been soaking oatmeal for breakfast (we are big cereal eaters! --imagine my shock when reading how ALL cereals were made, even the "healthy" ones I was giving my family ) and trying to use the food I have in the best way I know, but I would like more detailed instructions on soaking different grains, preparing them, sprouting and grinding your own flour, and the different methods for preparation. Not to mention making butter, soft cheeses, yogurt, etc... Some good recipes would be nice, but I am a pretty good cook and already change around recipes to make them healthy, so, I see myself modifying a lot, but I need to learn the techniques and how to make the staples necessary.

So, to make a long post longer, which book would you ladies recommend in this case. The junk science isn't so much of an issue if the technique is layed out right (though, it would be nice to be able to loan the book, yk?). Your advice would be sooo appreciated!

[Brookesmom]

Yes, someone posted about this within another NT thread a couple months ago and I checked it out. I just wish it had started before I moved out of the Bay Area last fall. ALthough, wow, those lactofermented beverages are pricey. It has inspired me to make my own.

I *love* Full Moon Feast. I find it very spiritual and holistic as well.

-Kelly

Originally Posted by Fermentula

I second the comment about Full Moon Feast! I feel it is the best representation of the NT-diet because it is well written, easy to read, and the recipes have actually been tested.

Speaking of Full Moon Feast, has anyone checked out www.threestonehearth.com which is Jessica Prentice's community supported kitchen in San Francisco. I'm surprised no one has mentioned it on this site yet. You can't order things to be shipped to you, so it only works for people in the Bay Area but I always love looking at what they have offered every week and it gives me recipe ideas. Most of the things they sell are recipes either directly from or variations of items in Full Moon Feast.

My 2 cents,
Marc