Help Define CIO - Page 2

[karin95]

Originally Posted by dukeswalker

: I've nursed while sitting on the pot..... : just so dd wouldn't have to cry all alone....

Sure, with a small baby that just wants to nurse, of course there's nothing wrong with peeing and nursing. But what about a 16 month old that won't just sit on your lap while you pee? she wants to crawl around the (not childproofed) bathroom and dig in the litter box for "treats". I'd much rather leave her in her room where she is safe and has toys and can hear me talking to her. If she cries, then it'll still be 5 minutes at most and I *know* she doesn't actually feel abandoned.

With our foster daughter (the aforementioned 16-month-old), we are actively teaching her to self-soothe more and fall back to sleep when she wakes up and doesn't need anything (like a bottle or a diaper change). Usually she just fusses - which is very different than a cry - so we let her go at it for 10 minutes. If she escalates or go longer, then we go in and soothe her for a few minutes and leave again. (foster parents aren't allowed to co-sleep).

If this were my forever baby, I may not choose to do this in the way, but she's going to be going to live with a family member soon and I *know* they're going to just let her CIO, so if we can teach her to sleep better through our modified CIO, then she won't have to learn through hardcore CIO.

She knows that we'll usually think to give her teething tabs when she seems to need them, we'll always change her poopy diapers, and we'll give her a bottle when she really wants one.

During the day, she's in the room with one of us almost all the time, but when we think she's up for it, we'll leave her alone to play for as long as she's willing. She needs to learn to be alone for short periods because we have no idea how often that will happen when she leaves us. We have to give her skills that, maybe, our "own" baby wouldn't need at her age.

Doing foster care and having to tread the line between what I think I'd rather do and what I know the babies will experience when they leave me has really made me think long and hard about what I truly find important.

[chelsmm]

I agree. I know that there are times when a baby's cries get to you. If you have to put your dc down for a minute while you take a breather, then do it, but come right back and comfort them. If this is a daily occurence, there's a problem. I think I've had to put ds down crying maybe twice in his life because I was frustrated, and it's been for 1 or 2 minutes, not 5 or 10. That seems like a very long time for a baby to be crying alone. I've peed many times with ds on the floor, and in the middle of the night, latched on to my boob. I shower at night when dh is home and ds is asleep. I can't always do what I want to do, when I want to do it.

I think it is very important for moms to know that it is OK for this to happen...In my dd's 11 months, I have had to do this once. I was sleep deprived, alone for about a week (dh was on business), and hormonal. She was crying and I couldn't take it. I knew I wouldn't physically hurt her, but I wanted to scream at her to stop crying. I'd rather walk out for 2 min and clear my head, than scare her by yelling. I put her in her crib, a safe place, and walked onto the porch to take a deep breath of fresh air. I needed to clear my head. It probably took 2 min, if that, but when I returned, I was ready to care for her in the way that she deserved. I was calm and ready to help her. This happens to even the best moms. We need to realize that this is NOT letting a baby cry it out. I didn't do this to get my baby to stop crying. I knew she'd still be crying when I came back. I did it to calm me down.

As far as showering, etc. I always had dd in the bathroom with me so I could interact with her. Now that she's mobile, she sits in the tub with me. I tried a few times to leave her in the crib with some toys, but I had to jump out of the shower before I was done because she was crying. I am not ok with leaving her to cry so I can shave my legs or wash my hair.

[aussiemum]

Originally Posted by Pandaora114

Can we all agree that:

Letting child Cry in room alone to train him/her to sleep = Bad

Putting Child down in safe spot *room alone even* to cry for 5 minutes while momma gets brain together and child HAPPENS to fall asleep = Good

Um. Well. I'm not entirely cool with that. It's fine to put down your child & walk away & call for help when you are at breaking pont.... Of course!!!! Let's not have any more Andrea Yates, okay?

And if you are alone & at pre-breaking point & feeling stressed, of course you can put your screaming baby down & walk away & you should not feel guilty. Five minutes is a long time tho- have you ever counted that out with a timer? That's a long time to scream with no answer, ime, unless a mama is in trouble....


................


I know.

I've been there.


.................




Talk to someone close to you. (a family-bed-friendly person, if at all possible) Pm me if you are having trouble connecting with other parents who are in the same boat..... I can be a sounding board, & I might be able to redirect you towards a temporarily more helpful org... depending on the situation of course...

hope that helps a bit anyway. Will be thinking of you...

That is my response to the OP. I'll go back & read the rest now....

[Pandora114]

Originally Posted by aussiemum

Um. Well. I'm not entirely cool with that. It's fine to put down your child & walk away & call for help when you are at breaking pont.... Of course!!!! Let's not have any more Andrea Yates, okay?

And if you are alone & at pre-breaking point & feeling stressed, of course you can put your screaming baby down & walk away & you should not feel guilty. Five minutes is a long time tho- have you ever counted that out with a timer? That's a long time to scream with no answer, imo, unless a mama is in serious trouble....


................


I know.

I've been there.


.................



Talk to someone close to you. (a family-bed-friendly person, if at all possible) Pm me if you are having trouble connecting with other parents who are in the same boat..... I can be a sounding board, & I might be able to redirect you towards a different org....

HTH.

Sweetie: This was when I was a single mom. Living alone, well semi alone...for all intents and purposes I was alone...I had no support, the only family I had was my half sister who was so self centred that she thought everything revolved around her. Couldn't call her at 2am...or things would have been bad...

Now, I have a husband, I have resources....then...No...none, zip

[Mommy Piadosa]

This has been brought up before in poll form Here
Personally I think that intentionally leaving a child to cry without comforting them in any way for more than 2-3 minutes is CIO. Not saying I haven't done it- but I think situations come up... (ie big brother asks for help and it turns out he's thrown up all over himself and the bathroom) and I do not think it is CIO if you are soothing them in some way- "Mommy's coming baby- I love you and I'll be right there."

[alegna]

Originally Posted by karin95

With our foster daughter (the aforementioned 16-month-old), we are actively teaching her to self-soothe more and fall back to sleep when she wakes up and doesn't need anything (like a bottle or a diaper change). Usually she just fusses - which is very different than a cry - so we let her go at it for 10 minutes. If she escalates or go longer, then we go in and soothe her for a few minutes and leave again. (foster parents aren't allowed to co-sleep).

THIS is not okay IMO. Sorry. I respect that you're trying to do what's best for this child, but IMO "fuss" it out is not ever okay either.

-Angela

[Cujobunny]

[quote=aussiemum]And if you are alone & at pre-breaking point & feeling stressed, of course you can put your screaming baby down & walk away & you should not feel guilty. Five minutes is a long time tho- have you ever counted that out with a timer? That's a long time to scream with no answer, ime, unless a mama is in trouble....quote]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. I'm wondering if people are exaggerating saying that they leave the baby for 5 or 10 minutes, because that is a very long time. IME it only literally takes 1 or 2 minutes to leave the room, take a deep breath and walk back in to your crying baby.

CIO is leaving a crying baby hoping that they will comfort themselves. If you've left your baby because you are tired of trying to get them to stop crying... and you leave them long enough that they stop crying, you're baby has just CIO, intentionally or not.

It doesn't make you a bad parent, for sure. No one is perfect. I think the main thing is, is this a habit? Once in a while, like you say aussiemum and others agree, it's happened only a few times in their baby's life. If it's a daily occurence, then there's a problem.

[Gem'sMama]

Originally Posted by aussiemum

And if you are alone & at pre-breaking point & feeling stressed, of course you can put your screaming baby down & walk away & you should not feel guilty. Five minutes is a long time tho- have you ever counted that out with a timer?

Is there actuially a time limit for a mother who feels she may physically harm her child? I'd rather the baby cry for hours than risk a mother who is capable of causing physical harm to her baby going to that child. My advice to anyone who feels they may harm baby...put the baby down somewhere safe, call your mom or a friend, whatever you need to do to calm down, and go back when you no longer feel that you are a danger to the baby.

[Valian]

This may stir the pot but I've seen this mentioned around before.

I think that letting your baby cry while you stand there and pat their back/sit nearby in a chair/sing while holding their hand, etc. is CIO.

IMO, refusing to pick up your baby while trying to otherwise comfort them while they're crying in bed is also pat of CIO. Especially if the crying could be helped by holding, rocking, nursing, etc.

[Zach'smom]

I have another question to throw in. Is it CIO to let your child cry in their carseat while you are driving down the interstate or stuck in a traffic jam or otherwise cannot get off the road to a safe place to pick up the child?

I have been in that situation before. I talk and coo and sing and do anything
to try to soothe baby while I am driving, but sometimes he ended up crying until I could find a safe place to stop and remove him from his carseat to nurse, cuddle or do whatever he needed to settle down.

OR

What if you have multiple babies and they are all screaming at once? Or older child is sick and you need to attend to their needs now. Before you can get to a baby it falls asleep from screaming. Is that CIO?

[aussiemum]

Gem's mama, yes, that is what I am saying. If it all goes to hell, & you are struggling with meeting basic needs & parenting, then I think the custodial parent needs to hand over until she/he can get their sh!t together....

Time limits aren't really a part of it for me, tbh, there is no time limit for anything we do..... It all just is..

As long as you are moderatly respectful of course. Articulate helps, too......

But that still doesn't mean that is the truth....


Bed time for me!

[Gem'sMama]

Originally Posted by RockStarMom

I'm pretty hardcore anti-CIO, so I don't even find your second situation acceptable. .

You have obviously never been a situation where you felt you may harm your child then. Good for you. I hope you never are.

[paxye]

I responded on another thread about my definition...

CIO is CIO...
It is crying in order to teach something, it is crying when a need can be met but a parent chooses not to meet it...

CIO can be done alone, when the parent is on the room or even in arms... if you CAN do something and choose not to it is CIO...
I also believe that just putting baby down to compose yourself for a few minutes, or can be the time that you go to the bathroom, or even crying in the car can be CIO... the baby is going through the same emotions and it has the same negative effects but what changes are the intentions of the parents...
Sometimes, you have to choose the lesser of two evils... no parent is going to be perfect all of the time and sometimes, some parents are forced to make decisions that they wouldn't do so otherwise, but it can't become an excuse for doing it every night KWIM? Also, once it is done, then you have to deal with the negative effects that it might have and you have try to put yourself in a position that it won't happen again... not just dismiss it and say that it has no negative effects and no harm was done... (that just leads to others saying that it is fine IMO)

Anyways... that's just my opinion...

Some here may not agree... but that is fine...

[poetesss]

Originally Posted by Gem'sMama

You have obviously never been a situation where you felt you may harm your child then. Good for you. I hope you never are.

I think we all need to realize the severity of such a situation. I once read something a while ago that really made an impact on me--it was about a father who was coping with some OCD issues and was weeping as he said (paraphrased), "Sometimes I just have horrific impulses to take my child and put her in the pressure cooker." Now when someone is pushed--whether by mental illness or life circumstances--to go to the extreme where they feel like doing some physical harm to their child, it's so important that they *get away from that child* whether or not she will cry or not. It's probably hard for many of us to imagine such an extreme situation, but it happens. Whether you want to call it CIO or whatever, in that moment that parent should not be near the child for the child's own safety.

[Mommy Piadosa]

it is crying when a need can be met but a parent chooses not to meet it...

And at what age does this apply? Is it CIO if my 6 yo ds thinks he "needs" a soda and I do not meet his need and he cries and cries.
As a single mama with four children I see this definition as too restrictive. I do not always jump to meet my almost 2 year olds needs since I am only one person and I have other children. Believe me I am in no danger of harming my children and I have my act together- BUT I'm curious at what age it is no longer CIO to let them cry and wait for their needs to be met?

[GooeyRN]

Originally Posted by moonfirefaery

Sometimes, you can't come immediately. Sometimes it's better if you don't come immediately. I can't come if I'm going potty. It's not good for my son to nurse while shampoo drips into his eyes. If your child is cholicy or has been up all night, you're protecting them by taking a break to relax, regain your thoughts, and recharge. Stressed out parents are more likely to be abusive, and I'd rather see a child left alone to cry for five minutes than to be yelled at or even hit because mom has been instructed never to put down a crying baby even when she's going nuts. That's not refusing to respond immediately to a child's cries; that's doing everything you can for the child, then getting out of the room for some peice and quiet so you can come up with a new plan to handle the situation, have a few minutes to ponder what' could be wrong and what other methods could help soothe the child, and calm down so you don't lash out.

I pretty much agree with you. When dd was colicy I had to put her down a few times for a few minutes to go in the other room and cry. She would scream/cry for HOURS no matter what i did or tried to do for her. If I didn't, dd was going to be thrown down the steps or out the window. PP hormones can us do really strange and horrible things, esp when baby is crying for hours on end and you have no help!

And... I do take time to wipe my bum and wash my hands before picking up dd if she is crying. (she can always see me the whole time) I don't want to get my nasty butt germs on her or into her mouth.

[PatchyMama]

Originally Posted by Madre Piadosa

And at what age does this apply? Is it CIO if my 6 yo ds thinks he "needs" a soda and I do not meet his need and he cries and cries.
As a single mama with four children I see this definition as too restrictive. I do not always jump to meet my almost 2 year olds needs since I am only one person and I have other children. Believe me I am in no danger of harming my children and I have my act together- BUT I'm curious at what age it is no longer CIO to let them cry and wait for their needs to be met?

Meeting their needs doesnt always mean giving them exactly what they want. As a baby it is likely to mean that, but as they get older it may just be a matter of helping them through whatever issue is making them cry. My 5 year old will absolutely cry when I say not to the gumball machine at the store. I do my best to comfort her and help her get past it.

[paxye]

Originally Posted by Madre Piadosa

And at what age does this apply? Is it CIO if my 6 yo ds thinks he "needs" a soda and I do not meet his need and he cries and cries.
As a single mama with four children I see this definition as too restrictive. I do not always jump to meet my almost 2 year olds needs since I am only one person and I have other children. Believe me I am in no danger of harming my children and I have my act together- BUT I'm curious at what age it is no longer CIO to let them cry and wait for their needs to be met?

I think that communication skills makes a big difference and also the extent of the "need"... A 6 month old's need for nursing is not the same as a 6 yo's "need" for Soda.... for one, the 6 yo can understand why you are denying it though they may not agree with it... and also... as much as some people may think it is... Soda is not a "need"...
I would never deny my 4 yo cuddles (though I might ask him to wait a few minutes)... but I might deny Ice cream because as much as he may want it... it is not a "need"... kwim?

However, Some children do not have the same communication skills, and at 3 yo trying to teach them to sleep by making them CIO may as well be as damaging as doing it at 6 months old... it really depends on the child...

Of course some people might not believe that a 6 month old needs to nurse anymore but it doesn't mean that it is the truth... (the ped around here beleives that at 8 weeks old a baby should no longer eat at night at all)...

[<<>>]

I have walked out of a room after putting my crying infant down.
Sometimes they are crying for no apparent reason. They are fed, dry, warm, but something is wrong and they are still screaming. So you pace the floor, you use the rocking chair, you sing, you do everything to calm the baby down, and after a few hours YOUR nerves are shot. Your crying right along with that baby.
Some mothers then have terrible impulses to hurt these precious babes... I have had those moments (in the first 6m or so)
And walking out of the room and clearing my head, and crying and regrouping helped me NOT hurt them.
My child was hurt by the 1-5m of crying alone, but not like the pain I would inflicted If i hadn't walked away........

[liawbh]

I have to object to the comment that if you have to leave the room you're doing something wrong. My 1st cryed aaaalllllll the bleep-ing time. Seriously. Like up to 5 hours total a day. Often from 11pm to 2 straight. So I'd sling, rock, nurse, walk, dance, vacuum, etc. But over the 3 months of never getting more than 2 hrs sleep at a stretch, there were a few times when I really was going to freak out. So I'd lay him down and go pee, or step out on the front step adn take deep breaths. or stick my head in a pillow and let out my own scream.

My 2nd is so different that I can now see why people don't understand colic. It's like nothing else. Maybe the OP was a bit too brief when she said "get brain together." I'm not talking about when you're a little tired and frustrated that you haven't fixed it. I'm talking about when you've had less than 6 hours sleep in 48 hours, you and babe have both been crying for the last hour, you've used up every little trick in your parenting skills bag (including peeing, showering, eating, cleaning with babe in arms; and staying home for 3 days b/c he cries as soon as his butt touches the car seat.).

Back to the OP, I think CIO to sleep, or to "teach" a babe to wait, or toavoid "spoiling" is all wrong.

A