Bad Children

[Qestia]

Do you believe that some children are "bad"? I used to, before coming to MDC, and all I can say is THANK YOU! I am so glad that I no longer label little kids that way.

I am on another forum and a daycare worker posted about this "brat" she watches. Given, this was her first day on the job, he was two years old, and she's going on about how awful he was. There was a time in my life--like, 30 years of it!--when I might have been like her, but after being here my perspective has totally changed. And instead, reading her post, I thought, what else is going on with this kid to make him act out? Gee, could having a --brand new DCP have anything to do with it?

Needless to say I was the only person who felt that way about her story.

I guess all I really want to say is THANK YOU MDC! I am a better parent because of you guys. I am a better person because of you guys! I am not 100% AP and honestly, don't want to be, but my attitude towards kids has done a 180 since coming here, from adversarial to, um, whatever the opposite of adversarial is! .

[angelpie545]

I think children are very much products of their evironment. Genetics play a huge part too as well-each kids are programmed differently, but parenting plays a huge role in determining the overall outcome.

[LoveMyJonah]

I agree that at least my ds's moods are a total product of his environment. If he's having a day where he didn't get to play with his tooth brush long enough in the morning, he holds grudges. In the last daycare he was in before we pulled him out, he had a different teacher every week. He had one teacher who was consistant and he wouldn't let her out of his sight without having panic attacks. They said he was having "discipline problems." No, he was reacting to an unstable environment, do you blame him?!
My neice is also a very bright, sensative and deep-thinking little girl. I see how badly she wants to behave sometimes but she acts out for the attention that she does not get from her mother. So I don't really believe there are "bad" children. We make it a point not to use that word in our house if DS is getting into something that could hurt him or he's acting out in frustration, we just try to point him in a more positive direction.

[rmzbm]

Originally Posted by angelpie545

I think children are very much products of their evironment.

[zipworth]

I've never believed that any child in all my years of working with children was 'bad'. There are bad choices, but no 'bad' children. Thank you for posting this, I feel that children are far too fabulous and complex to be labelled so negatively.

[NiteNicole]

I think some children come into the world way way WAY more challenging than other children and would be that way no matter who parented them or how.

I believe that there are a lot of complexities when it comes to children and their behavior and personalities. Environment plays a part, but I think we're all born with a little spark that's just "us" at the core.

[Mama Poot]

The inner city kids that have been in and out of juvenile jail for armed robbery, vandalism, assault, drug dealing, it goes on and on and SOME OF THEM AS YOUNG AS 12....Most would say those kids are "bad". I don't think they are bad. I think they have a horrible life and need a lot of help. DH worked at a facility with youth just like this. They were there because they either had no family or they were ordered to be there by a judge and as soon as they graduated they would be going to jail. Most of them were good kids who did their work. They just needed someone like DH to give a damn. There are no bad children, IMO.

[siobhang]

The concept that any child is believed to be inherently bad saddens me deeply. I also don't believe that people can be inherently good or bad, but they can certainly be made that way.

I do believe that kids are the results of personality mixed with context - and some kids, as a result of bad evironments, challenging medical/emotional conditions, and/or other factors, can get *broken* in fundamental ways (a la the Unibomber, Hitler, Jeffery Dalmer, etc).

I think it is key to NOT see children as inherently good or bad - so we can try to avoid creating more *broken* adults.

[mollyeilis]

I think "bad" always depends on who is doing the defining, and I rarely trust anyone else's definitions.


I once worked with kids with disabilities (of ALL sorts) in their phys ed program. There was one boy, a very large boy, of 11. I was told he was "profoundly deaf" and therefore could not hear ANYTHING, and that he was a bully, and I was to watch out for him. Well, one day I saw him look up at the ceiling, just as a plane went overhead. And another day I forget he was "profoundly deaf", and said (not yelled, not called, just SAID) his name while I was behind him, and he turned around to greet me. (he had no hearing aid, by the way) Not only that, but his "bullying", I noticed, was only done to children who were actively defying the teachers!!! If a teacher asked another child for a ball and the child refused, this boy would go hit the child. If two other children were arguing, he would go "discipline" the child instigating it. But since there were many children in the program and only one special ed teacher in their classroom, and only one phys ed special ed teacher for all of them, it seemed no one ever caught it. So he was a BAD boy, when from my perspective (I had NO say, they would NOT listen to me, and absolutely rejected my thoughts that perhaps he had Tourette's when I listed the behaviours I felt matched up, I was only a student helper from the local college) he was a (slightly) hearing boy with undiagnosed problems who was trying to help, albeit in a wrong way.


Also, my DH was labeled a "bad" boy, as well as a liar, very early in his life. He hadn't yet lied, but was beaten for lying when his father just would not accept his explanation (something about the boys on the bus taking half of a candy bar he'd bought for Mother's Day, and his father refusing to hear that, and finally bullying DH into a false confession that he himself had eaten it), and ever since that day, he was The Liar of the family. And later, he BECAME a liar. Even now his mother won't listen to him, she will listen to me say the same thing and accept it from me, but always assumes he is lying. Problem is, she also doesn't understand the intricacies of English, the "if/then"s cause her problem, so if we are discussion a HYPOTHETICAL situation, or a longterm plan, she thinks it's set into motion, so later, if it didn't happen, she assumes he was lying about it. Augh! :

DH is proof that you can take a good kid and turn him into something, just by labelling him that early on, and never accepting anything as truth. Oh, and he would get punished JUST as much if he confessed instead of being found out in a lie. Something he is only NOW talking to his mom about, at 34, b/c talking openly to them at the time was "talking back", and was worthy of physical punishment.

[peacelovingmama]

I don't think human beings are inherently bad/evildoers.

It's kind of like with a dog -- even if you start with a gentle golden retriever, if you beat it enough, you WILL have a problem animal on your hands. I don't mean to analogize children directly with canines, but people seem to "get" that analogy.

I think kids are product of their treatment and experiences (with very few exceptions, like mental illnesses -- doesn't make them "bad" either, just makes them sick, IMO).