a great anti-spanking argument!

[siobhang]

I was chatting with a friend recently about why we don't spank - this is paraphrased/condensed - I was in the zone with the anti-spanking rationale and I had to share.

Him: "I don't see the problem with spanking - it taught me right from wrong. I was spanked rarely when I was a kid, but I know I deserved it when I was!"

Me: "really, what did you do wrong that caused the spanking?"

Him: "I have no idea. I must have deserved it, though, for me to get spanked."

ME: "But what exactly did you learn? What lesson did you actually take from those spankings?"

Him: "I don't know, I was just a kid, it was a long time ago."

Me: "But you remember the spanking, don't you? You vividly remember the punishment but you have no memory of the 'crime'. So what exactly did you learn from the spanking?"

Him: "Huh, I don't know. I guess that if you do something bad, you get spanked."

Me: "yeah, but only if you are a kid. I mean, if your boss or your brother spanked you today because you did something wrong, what would you do?"

Him: "probably deck him! Or get him arrested or something."

(that is where the conversation ended).

My friend later told me he really starting thinking hard about what caused the spankings and what kids really learn from them.

[ejmom777]

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
I love this.
I've been wondering what to say to my family & others who oppose my reasons for not spanking. It's cool how you turned it around on them to explain their reasons for why they do. They always say that their spankings did them good by teaching them a lesson for their bad behavior.
I hate their narrow minded views of babies & children and how they think that childrens motive behind their "bad" behavior is defiant or malicious.
It's so sad.
thanks again
Leah

[peacelovingmama]

That's a great dialogue to get people thinking. Keep up the good work!

[Jude Rose]

This is a helpful tact. I'm in the beginning phases of educating DH about hitting and have my work cut out. Mainly the 'problem' is all his siblings and he turned out quite well, in spite of spanking. So it's hard for him to wrap his mind around cutting out a new paradigm and thought process.

I was relieved last night when I recounted a story from this board of a very young baby getting hit and he said, "that's too young" and was really upset. That encourages me that we have a basis to go from there, because really when does one decide a child is old enough to hit?

[claras_mom]

My mother said something to me recently about our growing up--to the effect of she hoped her parenting hadn't left us with lingering issues (not her phrasing, but I can't remember exactly). Anyway, I said, "huh?" And she said, "I was really barely holding it together; I yelled at you kids a lot."

And you know? I don't remember being yelled at--not as a little kid, which is what she was talking about--but I do remember being spanked. We talked a little about it: she spanked because her parents had. I don't--and won't--not because of lingering damage, (I don't think! : ) but because the thought of it makes me sick. And...as I said to a co-worker one day who had said she thought that it was okay to "swat" now and then:

How can we expect our children not to hit if we hit? How can we expect to have a non-violent society if we resort to violence to "solve" problems with our kids?

My mom, by the way, has expressed a lot of admiration for what she sees as "newer" ways of parenting, practiced by my siblings and I. What strikes me, in thinking about all this, is that it really is about modeling behavior. We're not only modeling behavior for our children, but for other parents and for society at large.

[CaraboosMama]

Awesome!

[sparkprincess]

Originally Posted by claras_mom

My mother said something to me recently about our growing up--to the effect of she hoped her parenting hadn't left us with lingering issues (not her phrasing, but I can't remember exactly). Anyway, I said, "huh?" And she said, "I was really barely holding it together; I yelled at you kids a lot."

And you know? I don't remember being yelled at--not as a little kid, which is what she was talking about--but I do remember being spanked. We talked a little about it: she spanked because her parents had. I don't--and won't--not because of lingering damage, (I don't think! : ) but because the thought of it makes me sick. And...as I said to a co-worker one day who had said she thought that it was okay to "swat" now and then:

How can we expect our children not to hit if we hit? How can we expect to have a non-violent society if we resort to violence to "solve" problems with our kids?

My mom, by the way, has expressed a lot of admiration for what she sees as "newer" ways of parenting, practiced by my siblings and I. What strikes me, in thinking about all this, is that it really is about modeling behavior. We're not only modeling behavior for our children, but for other parents and for society at large.

Yeah, my favorite is when I see my friends swat or spank their kids for hitting another child....:

[peacelovingmama]

Originally Posted by claras_mom

How can we expect our children not to hit if we hit? How can we expect to have a non-violent society if we resort to violence to "solve" problems with our kids?

.

My fave too, especially the second part. While it is true that many kids who are hit do not hit others, I do think that teaching children to accept and embrace violence has a huge (and tragic) societal/cultural impact. I think it is one of the reasons our society is so accepting of violence generally.

[aywilkes]

Originally Posted by Jude Rose

I was relieved last night when I recounted a story from this board of a very young baby getting hit and he said, "that's too young" and was really upset. That encourages me that we have a basis to go from there, because really when does one decide a child is old enough to hit?

Former spanker here. You may still have a long way to go. I don't think I spanked my DS until he was 5 - maybe I tapped his butt when he was 4 though. I think/hope that even spankers recognize that babies are really delicate.

I will tell you what helped me start examining my discipline tactics:
1. Historical reasons why I spanked. I'm African American and truly believe that spanking in our community stems from slavery. Slaves were whipped into submission - a mindset passed down from owner to slave to child and so on.
2. I learned that you shouldn't spank out of anger and SO MANY TIMES I found myself wnating to spank BECAUSE of anger. Plus, many times after I calmed down, I didn't have the desire to spank and when I did my "heart just wasn't in it".
3. My son flinching sometimes in anticipation of getting whacked when he saw that I was upset. I never spanked often, but I did NOT like seeing my son react to me that way at all.
4. Learning that discipline is a tool for teaching and wondering just what was I teaching by spanking other than when you can't get a person to act the way you wnat them to, you hit them.
5. Listening to and observing GD moms and their creativity. I realized I had to get creative. I needed to respond to situations but I needed to think outside the box and not fall back on old accepted standards.

I would suggest that the professional GD moms ask probing questions to pro spankers like, what if you did this in response to X behavior? Do you think the results would be less effective? or Once you realized what behaviors caused you to get spanked as a child, how did you react? Did you just get wiser so you could get away with those behaviors?