Need help with 6 year old - consequence for a BIG lie

[Mytwokids]

Where to start. My dd is 6 and just started at a new school in first grade. I work 3 days/week and on those days she goes to a sitters house. She has to take a different bus on those days (Tues-thurs) then on the days I'm home (Monday and Friday). I made a big deal out of her remembering which bus to take what day. I wrote an index card with the schedule and put it on her back pack. I have a schedule taped to her desk at school. We talked about what to do if she came home on a day she wasn't suppose to (get in the house and call me).

Well today it happened. She took the wrong bus home. But not because she forgot she intentionally choose to take the wrong bus home "because I wanted to know what it felt like". Fortunately our neighbor picked his kids up from the bus stop and called me at work and he kept her until I could get there. After talking with her she told me she did it on purpose. She had a lie ready to tell me which was that she saw the other bus leave so she just got on the wrong bus. But I knew this was a lie because my sitters son who was on the bus she was suppose to be on saw her getting on the wrong bus. So I prompted her that I knew some of the truth and expected to hear the truth from her, so she told me she did it on purpose.

I'm at a complete loss here. I had know idea she had it in her to think through doing such a thing, to intentially get on the wrong bus and come up with a lie to boot! My dd isn't perfect and I know that but she (or I thought she didn't) doesn't lie to me like this.

I have remained very calm. I have told her that I am deeply dissapointed and saddened. I told her she was extremely lucky that our neighbor was there and we talked about the bad things that could have happened. I feel like I need to punish her. I don't normally do that but I feel I have to stress the importance of this issue and I don't know what to do ! What is a logical consequence in this situation. The only things I can think of are not allowing her to take the bus at all but those just don't work. I'm so extremely angry and I don't want to go over board but on the other hand if I don't make a huge deal out of it her safety could be at stake. Please help! DH is on his way home and we are going to discuss it then but I need some rational help. we are not rational at this point. We are too emotional and angry with her.

TIA, Micky

[Fuamami]

I don't know, I honestly think that's not such a big deal. She told you she wanted to know how it feels, now she does. She saw your reaction, she saw how much it worried you and how scared you were. Why punish her?

I think kids should be able to try on "bad" behaviors. Everybody should lie a few times in their lives and get away with it, just to see how it makes them feel. Those guilty feelings of dishonesty that a person with a strong moral center get when they do something that goes against their morals are what really keeps us all in line, not the fear of punishment, IMNSHO.

For example, when I was in 6th grade, I shoplifted a candy bar on the last day of school. The bus always stopped at the gas station on the last day so everyone could get treats, but I forgot to bring money. So I stole it. And I felt awful. The memory of that feeling greatly reduced any future temptation to shoplift. No one ever knew, so I don't know how it would have changed if I had been punished. But I do know I'm glad I had to process that feeling and decide not to do that again without any interference.

[alegna]

Originally Posted by natensarah

I don't know, I honestly think that's not such a big deal. She told you she wanted to know how it feels, now she does. She saw your reaction, she saw how much it worried you and how scared you were. Why punish her?

I think kids should be able to try on "bad" behaviors. Everybody should lie a few times in their lives and get away with it, just to see how it makes them feel. Those guilty feelings of dishonesty that a person with a strong moral center get when they do something that goes against their morals are what really keeps us all in line, not the fear of punishment, IMNSHO.

:

I think she will understand how scared/upset you were and that's enough of a consequence. I don't understand what would be gained with a punishment.

-Angela

[captain optimism]

Wow. That is very scary!

I have not BTDT. I am interested in what people who have been have to say. My first thought was, "I bet the kid never forgets this because of how upset her mom and dad are!"

[sehbub]

We had a similar situation with our 4yo who punched her teacher in the stomach and then told us that the teacher called her stupid. We knew this was not the case, as the teacher is a wonderful woman, and when we told DD that the teacher would lose her job and not be able to work with kids anymore if she really called a child stupid, DD got very quiet and then fessed up that she punched the teacher because she was upset that she had to go to the back of the line for pushing another child. (clearly, this was during her instigator phase)

We just made it clear that we were disappointed and sad that she did that, and then explained the consequences of lying about another person. So far (about 6 months) so good. No more lies, and no violence toward others.

I don't know how I would feel if my kid intentionally got on the wrong bus, but as a PP stated, a strong moral compass will impose all the guilt necessary.

I know I definitely would have been scared, that's for sure!

[mollyeilis]

I can only approach this from the viewpoint of the child.

I'm with the others, who think that now she knows what it's like, and what it's like is that EVERYONE KNOWS what she did, and she was, basically, caught before she even got on the bus! She didn't know she was caught, but she was. And she'll remember that.

I do wonder about the bus system, and I suppose it has changed. When I was riding buses (we were latchkey kids), we were not allowed to get off the bus at another stop, unless we had a note or it was pre-arranged. So on our piano lesson days we could get off at the stop where the teacher lived, but on a non-lesson day we could not. Has it changed so much, that kids aren't watched by the driver, to make sure they are on the right bus? Or maybe it's just that the year is so new.


Lastly..."talked about the bad things that could have happened"... Like what? This is a scenario you guys have already covered, by coming up with an action plan of her calling you at work, if it happens by mistake. So if you are now saying that bad things could happen, won't that terrify her needlessly (if she believes you)?

[**guest**]

nak
i agree with others that telling her how sad, disappointed and frightened you were, is enough of a consequence.

[Roar]

You may not like my response, but here goes....

I think you are asking a lot, probably too much, of a six year old. I'm wondering what other options there could be? Could a teacher or someone help her find the right bus for the day or remind her what bus to go on? Could you travel to the sitter's location to pick her up on Monday and Friday? Is there a back up plan for what she should do if she ends up at the bus stop on any day and her pick up person isn't there?

Another thing I want to toss out there is that often when parents feel really angry there is an underlying emotion. In this case I think it is fear. Is there some awareness that you are asking a lot of a kid that age? Really kids aren't perfect. They all make mistakes and try out different behaviors. Is there a way you could modify this system so the consequences wouldn't be so extreme if she messes up?

[Mytwokids]

Normally I would agree with all of you and I try to allow natural consequences, guilt included, to teach my children. My issue is this actually felt pretty good for her. It all worked out in her favor. She was able try out doing the home alone drill and when she wasn't able to get the phone to work to call me she had back up, the neighbor. And then she got to play with her friend for an hour. I know she knows that we are upset and that we were worried and what she did was wrong. I want to believe that is enough to stop it from happening again and I know that no punishment is going to guarentee it won't happen either. But I don't know if I can trust that she won't do it again. Which is basically the most natural consequence she has to deal with, we don't trust her right now and she is now aware of that. The fact is so many things could have gone wrong today, our neighbor isn't always there, she could have been locked out of the house, she could have tried to walk to the sitters, gotten lost, hit by a car, taken by a stranger.....

There is no way for her to understand the enormity of what could have happened.

I'm not sure if what we did was punishment or not. But I feel it made an impact so I'm okay with it. Beside explaining how we felt and what could have happened we had her write apology letters to everyone she impacted with her choice (me, neighbor, sitter). And she has been begging to have a play date with a new friend at school. Her friend wants her to come to her house straight from school (on the bus). WE haven't met the girl or her parents yet and we have been telling her that we needed to talk to the parents first which hasn't happened but tonight we told her that it won't happen until she can show us she can handle the responsibility of the bus. That we need to gain some of our trust in her first before we can allow her that type of responsibility.

It is very scary for me and I know that is where this feeling to punish is coming from. Logically I know a punishment isn't going to keep her from doing it again and that really I need to trust in her moral compass, but she is 6. I hope we're doing the right thing.

edited because I can't spell.

[mirlee]

This is a very huge deal. What if your neighbor wasn't there to pick up his kids? Where would she have gone? Would she have sat at your place or would she have wandered the neighborhood? What if someone approached her and said, they would take her to her mom?

She needs to understand that what she did was wrong and she should never do that again. It is too dangerous.

Aren't teachers there to monitor the buses? At our school each teacher has a list of what child in their class gets on what bus and and what day. When I made a change to my son's bus, he only takes the bus to his after school program, I called the bus coordinator. I also wrote a note and spoke to his teacher. She then passed my note to the school secretary who verified the bus number and drop off point with the bus coordinator. Everyday the teacher walks her students and delivers them to a sign in the school where the children for that bus gather. They are all walked to their buses by a designated teacher who actually carries a sign with that bus color. They designate all the buses with a color and a number. No child gets on the wrong bus.

I think you need to not only talk to your daughter, but also the school. While she is there, they are legally the custodian of her. They have to make sure she gets on the right bus at all times. I would schedule time with the teacher and the principal together.

[Mytwokids]

I have worried that it is a lot to ask of a 6 year old. But quite honestly I thought the remembering part would be hard. I have a schedule on her backpack and taped to her desk and the teacher knows it. We always ask her in the morning which bus she is taking home. She knows it. It wasn't that she forgot or got confused at all. She made a choice to go home when she knew no one would be there. And honestly I'm not all that surprised by that. She is extremely independent and I gave her all the tools she needed if it happened. It bothers me that it was so well planned and she thought through the whole process of the lie. I guess we all need to go through the process of lying to learn how it feels when we are caught in one. But its still distrubing being that its the first time. Not the first lie but the first one that I've noticed that has been days in the making.

Its funny for me to be on this side of the argument, normally I would be saying what you are all but it hit home today. I realize now that its much easier to make the judgements when its not your kid.

[Mytwokids]

Originally Posted by mirlee

I think you need to not only talk to your daughter, but also the school. While she is there, they are legally the custodian of her. They have to make sure she gets on the right bus at all times. I would schedule time with the teacher and the principal together.

I plan to do that. I know the teacher has her schedule but obviously someone wasn't paying attention. I don't know exactly how the buses work in the afternoon but I had been assurred there were helpers out there. I plan on calling her teacher tomorrow. Thanks, Micky

[geekmediainc]

Originally Posted by natensarah

I don't know, I honestly think that's not such a big deal. She told you she wanted to know how it feels, now she does. She saw your reaction, she saw how much it worried you and how scared you were. Why punish her?

I think kids should be able to try on "bad" behaviors. Everybody should lie a few times in their lives and get away with it, just to see how it makes them feel. Those guilty feelings of dishonesty that a person with a strong moral center get when they do something that goes against their morals are what really keeps us all in line, not the fear of punishment, IMNSHO.

As a mom to a daughter of the same age, I wouldn't punish her more than "how it felt" already did.

I totally feel for you, I was 20 seconds late getting her off the bus today and my stomach dropped when I read that your DD had no one to meet her at the bus either (well, other than your neighbor). She was honest with you, and I think that any major consequence would discourage her honesty in the future.

That's my feedback, feel free to take it with a grain of salt.

[aywilkes]

[QUOTE=

I'm not sure if what we did was punishment or not. But I feel it made an impact so I'm okay with it. Beside explaining how we felt and what could have happened we had her write apology letters to everyone she impacted with her choice (me, neighbor, sitter). And she has been begging to have a play date with a new friend at school. Her friend wants her to come to her house straight from school (on the bus). WE haven't met the girl or her parents yet and we have been telling her that we needed to talk to the parents first which hasn't happened but tonight we told her that it won't happen until she can show us she can handle the responsibility of the bus. That we need to gain some of our trust in her first before we can allow her that type of responsibility.

It is very scary for me and I know that is where this feeling to punish is coming from. Logically I know a punishment isn't going to keep her from doing it again and that really I need to trust in her moral compass, but she is 6. I hope we're doing the right thing.

edited because I can't spell.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with your response and understand where you are coming from. I don't think the serious natural consequences were felt by your DD because nothing "bad" happened and I am sure you don't WANT that to ever happen to her because bad could mean more than just being locked out of the house on a dry day. I love your approach for dealing with her too. It sounds like you're doing the best you can with what you have.

[mollyeilis]

Wait, why was she locked out?

"We talked about what to do if she came home on a day she wasn't suppose to (get in the house and call me)."

If that's in the plan, shouldn't she have a way to get in the house? I know that now is not the time you feel like making sure she has a key, but since there IS the possibility of an actual accident happening (please don't consider herself a liar from now on, that happened to my husband based on one incident (where he actually lied after telling the truth because he wasn't being listened to anyway), and it turned him into a liar), she should have one!



Someone mentioned being late in meeting their DC for the bus...man, how different from my past life! My mom worked retail, NO WAY she could have gotten out to meet us (if she had, she would have just picked us up), we were on our own to get off the bus, get down the street, and either to the neighbors or to our house!

[Mytwokids]

Originally Posted by mollyeilis

Wait, why was she locked out?

"We talked about what to do if she came home on a day she wasn't suppose to (get in the house and call me)."

If that's in the plan, shouldn't she have a way to get in the house? I know that now is not the time you feel like making sure she has a key, but since there IS the possibility of an actual accident happening (please don't consider herself a liar from now on, that happened to my husband based on one incident (where he actually lied after telling the truth because he wasn't being listened to anyway), and it turned him into a liar), she should have one!

The plan was for her to get into the house and call me. She can get in using our garage key pad. She knows the code. It would be a fluke if she couldn't get in, garage not working for some reason. Then she is to call me. My work phone # was on the card in her backpack and by our phone. For whatever reason she couldn't get the call through though so she gave the phone to the neighbor. Our neighbor said she knew exactly what to do. Honestly I think we went through the drill so much she just wanted to try it out. I don't really question why she did it and I don't think she is horrible or is a liar because she did it. It was shocking to me that she did it because it is so over the top from anything she has done before. But its not totally surprising when I think about it either. BUT, I do think she really needs to understand how serious this is. At least we think its serious. Choosing to come home to an empty house at 6 when she is not suppose to is just not a good idea, IMO. I think and hope she understands that know and I just have to make sure the school lives up to their responsibility.

Micky

[Joannarachel]

Others may not agree with me, but I think your decision in consequences is spot-on. They are natural, not punitive. When we hurt and frighten others, we need to make it right (letters of apology). When we show we can't be trusted with a simple task, we need to show that we can be trusted before we move on with a more difficult one (going home with another girl on a different bus.)

Truly, I think you've handled it brilliantly

[jrayn]

I did something similar to this around that age, me and my best friend at that time decided to walk home instead of taking the bus. We didn't tell our parents, we were latckey kids (parents worked until 6pm or so, so they were clueless).
We decided to take the back way which was probably 3x longer but we were scared of the dogs on the road that our houses were on. On the way there, a man in a van stopped and asked us for directions, my friend said she didn't know then when he started to drive away we ran in someones yard and hid in the bushes, he turned around after he drove away.
Thinking back, there were 2 things wrong with that, why would a grown man as 2 obviously very young girls for directions when just down the road was a handy way? Then why did he turn around if he was trying to go to that location, to turn around meant going into the country where there is absolutely nothing except woods and a few houses, that road lead to nowhere. I am wondering if we had walked to the van to give him directions or if we hadn't ran and hid would we have been kiddnapped????

I say educate your daughter that kidnappings happen all the time, maybe even show her the lost pictures of little kids. That is why it is important for you to know where she is and for her to be where she is supposed to be - that type of thing.

[Twocoolboys]

My first thought was to wonder why the school personel let her get on the wrong bus. I'd be concerned there and would definitely talk to them. Our school is pretty strict about that issue and has several aides and teachers out there making sure the kids go to the right bus. Maybe the teacher or an aide could escort her directly to the correct bus for awhile?

[EnviroBecca]

I think the consequences are exactly right. It sounds to me like she was excited by the idea of having an emergency procedure and did not fully understand that it's unacceptable to create an emergency on purpose. Now she knows.

Next time you need to instruct her about what to do if things go wrong, role-play the procedure and then remind her, "Now you know how it feels. You know that it works. Never do it on purpose, only in a real emergency."

IMO, there is nothing to be gained by telling her horror stories about kidnappers. Instead, I would emphasize her responsibility to the family: You are counting on her to go to the right places on the right days so that you know where she is and can do your work rather than worrying about her or having to go pick her up; it's okay if she makes a mistake, but it's not okay to pretend to make a mistake.

I agree that the school should be making sure kids this age get on the right busses. However, I think you're absolutely right to give your daughter instructions and tell her to be responsible for following them. The idea is for the school to be her back-up in case she really does forget.

Mirlee wrote:

Where would she have gone? Would she have sat at your place or would she have wandered the neighborhood? What if someone approached her and said, they would take her to her mom?

If you are uncertain about the answers to these questions, go over them with your daughter. Try to find two neighbors who are usually home at that time (so that if one happens not to be home, the other probably will be) who can call you if your daughter has a problem getting into the house or using the phone.

From the original post:

She had a lie ready to tell me which was that she saw the other bus leave so she just got on the wrong bus.

You may have addressed this already, but if not, make sure she knows that if she misses the bus she's supposed to take, the correct response is to have the school office call you--or whatever is the correct response, but not getting on the wrong bus.

She says she "wasn't able to get the phone to work." Maybe some practice using the phone is needed.

Overall, I think you handled this really well. It's common for kids this age to experiment with lying. Appropriate consequences can help to nip it in the bud.