So sad, need to vent... - Page 2

[peacelovingmama]

Originally Posted by aywilkes

The media and Researchers would have us believe that spanking occurs most in certain cultures and low economic levels, but the sad reality is that many wrongs that happen in affluent or middle class families that constitute neglect and/or borderline abuse don't get reported because those people are nto monitored - no need to go to welfare office, etc. Therefore, this education should maybe be more widespread for everybody - not just reported persons.

Absolutely -- the education should be directed at our society at large. I would never suggest that it be "aimed" at only one race/socioeconomic class. The problem of violence against children in our society, unfortunately, transcends both. And the anti-hitting legislation I support, as I said, should not carry penal consequences or remove children (unless in danger of serious injury/death).

Like all laws, we should enforce it equally. Do we do that with other laws? No. But that doesn't mean we don't legislate against domestic violence, assault on an adult, battery, etc. The disparity in enforcement is another societal illness and I don't think our children should lack protection for one more day with it as an excuse.

[peacelovingmama]

Originally Posted by rmzbm

Can I just say that I am now, officially, going to start cyber-stalking peacelovingmama? I always get so flustered & bent out of shape, not knowing what to say when it comes to stuff like this. Then she says it, eloquently, peacefuly, and always respectfuly. She's my GD hero! *swoon*

Aww - I just saw this. Thank you! I go out of my way to read your (and many others' posts) too, truth be told. I haven't posted too much lately due to morning sickness but I plan to be around more. And you all sure got an earful yesterday!

[vermont mom]

Originally Posted by peacelovingmama

Absolutely -- the education should be directed at our society at large. I would never suggest that it be "aimed" at only one race/socioeconomic class. The problem of violence against children in our society, unfortunately, transcends both. And the anti-hitting legislation I support, as I said, should not carry penal consequences or remove children (unless in danger of serious injury/death).

Like all laws, we should enforce it equally. Do we do that with other laws? No. But that doesn't mean we don't legislate against domestic violence, assault on an adult, battery, etc. The disparity in enforcement is another societal illness and I don't think our children should lack protection for one more day with it as an excuse.

Thanks, everyone, for not coming down too hard on me, or at least not in any personal way. I agree that families are dysfunctional at all levels of society. I think some laws are made and enforced more for the purpose of having control over a certain sector of the population than for their supposed reasons. Cf. the War on Drugs. It seems to me that a majority of the horror stories I hear come from fostering situations.

In case any one is wondering where I am coming from at a personal level, I am here because I subscribed to this forum. I subscribed because I am looking for more ideas on how to gently discipline my children. This has always been my way since I became a mom, but I haven't done a lot of reading about it. I have gotten both compliments on the gentle way I handled my children and dirty looks when I raised my voice or gave them time out. Life is getting so full and hectic now that I am looking for new ideas, hence thank you for all the wonderful ideas on this and other threads.

Also, I don't mean to ambush (is this the right word?) the thread. Bottom line for me in your situation, Somedaymom, is please just be very careful about this reporting on other parents thing. I know, that is why you brought it here - to vent but not necessarily report, and to gather feedback. Reporting can wind up having unintended consequences. You just never know - maybe that mom has a much harder time when she is out and about than when she is home with her kids. I know this is sometimes true for me.

[yequanamama]

How sad for those sweet little kiddos. Still, I must confess to you all, I feel sorry for the mother too. You KNOW she was treated just like that. She was her daughter 25 years ago, and her children will be her in 25 years, unless they're fortunate enough to learn from the pain and find a better way, as many of us here have.

That poor mother is carrying all the pain of her childhood with her, and missing all the great parts of being a mother - having a tiny helpless soul trust you, laugh with you, draw pictures just for you, and rest easier just because you're present. Oh! Too much sadness for me!

[rmzbm]

Originally Posted by peacelovingmama

Aww - I just saw this. Thank you! I go out of my way to read your (and many others' posts) too, truth be told. I haven't posted too much lately due to morning sickness but I plan to be around more. And you all sure got an earful yesterday!

Congrats on the baby, btw, hope you're feeling better speedily!

[Aeress]

My mom commented on how my family is raising our kiddo's and how we respond to things as a family and different my brother does it and i shouldn't look down on him becuase he has to do it his way.
I totally agree in allowing parents to parent in their own way and I do not want someone judging me but in a more public setting like a dentist office I think it is o.k. to make policies that are for the good of the children in your practice.

I admit that before I came to understanding that there was a different way to parent besides spankings, I spanked. Honestly I didn't know any different and was raised with spankings...so, after watching my own dd's face after one, I knew I never wanted to do that again but what was my alternartive? I did research and found other ways...but if I hadn't, i wouldn't have known.

I so see my mom's point but if we are to ever change some of the more negative aspects of our society, then we need to start a conversation about what the alternatives are.

[janerose]

*sigh* That's just really sad. My mom is an RN and refused to work in OB/GYN or pediatrics because she KNOWS she just can't handle situations like that. They had a case a couple years ago (she's a case worker now -- basically social work for the hospital) where she was covering peds for someone who was out on sick leave. This little girl was about 1 and got admitted for pneumonia. She had a HUGE chunk of her hair torn out of her head, bruises all over her, etc. The hospital did report her parents to CPS but for whatever reason CPS decided to let her go home with her parents when she was discharged. Mom said it took everything in her not to grab the poor baby & run...

Oh, and I think you should definitly post a sign in your office!

Holly

[aywilkes]

Originally Posted by yequanamama

How sad for those sweet little kiddos. Still, I must confess to you all, I feel sorry for the mother too. You KNOW she was treated just like that. She was her daughter 25 years ago, and her children will be her in 25 years, unless they're fortunate enough to learn from the pain and find a better way, as many of us here have.

That poor mother is carrying all the pain of her childhood with her, and missing all the great parts of being a mother - having a tiny helpless soul trust you, laugh with you, draw pictures just for you, and rest easier just because you're present. Oh! Too much sadness for me!

I hadn't thought of that but what you wrote makes so much sense. She is behaving based on where she is in her life - spiritually, mentally, emotionally. My DS (8) and I lived in Ecuador in a volunteer house for a few months last year and a 22 yr. old American woman lived with us. She was SO MEAN to my son and to the kids at the school where we volunteered. (e.g. my son was chosen by the museum staff to have had the best artwork during a field trip and got a special gift. ) When I was in the back of the house one day and he was showing the gift to another volunteer, I heard her comment that he didn't deserve it because so and so's picture was better than his. I of course had to say that was her opinion and it differed from what the museum staff thought. But she was like this ALL the time - couldn't help herself. or could if she would examine the root causes. She shared that her parents were really mean. (Dad would buy popcorn b/c she couldn't eat it (braces) and tease her about it). Spankings with pants pulled down at 13 while menstruating. Just a shame. But we have to take responsibility for our lives as adults and break the cycle.

[15yrsbetweenboys]

How awful-those poor kiddos OP is right though, in this area of the country (her hubby is a great dentist BTW) it is all too common to see/hear this type of thing-and honestly, if you are NOT one of these people you actually get more comments! No matter how "normal" this kind of thing is around here-it always shocks me and makes me so sad..........I just can't fathom being so callous and uncaring about children, especially my own. I think "kid friendly" or "No Spanking" signs would be a great idea, I mean really-if somebody is going to stop doing business with you because of that, do you really care about their business?

[SomedayMom]

15yrsbetweenboys...You know my husband? What a small (cyber) world I'd have to agree with you...about my husband of course and about the whole area. I took Simon to Toys R Us the other day to buy a ball. He's almost 2 and not at the age where he wants to get in the cart. If I try he'll kick and scream. He wants me to hold him or to walk, so I do. So, another mom and little girl who looked the same age came in and she forced her kicking and screaming into the cart and when she didn't stop crying she picked her up, hit her, and proceeded to carry her anyway. What the heck was the point in that? And my son had to see that. He's such a sweetie and you can see the worry on his face when other kids are crying. And I got reamed on a flight back home because I didn't keep my 9 MONTH old from making noise (not crying, just making noise...he could walk at that point and he wanted down, but you know how the planes out of SGF are...small!). Lady told me I was a bad mom because I had *no control*

Anyway, the signs are currently up for debate. It's tough because as much as I would agree that who cares about their business anyway...my part of the practice is more than half medicaid and I hate to drive away kids who have essentially no place else to go where the dentist will treat them kindly and they don't have a 2 year waiting list. I'm totally in this to do something good for these kids, so it's difficult to offend their parents and take away a safe dental haven for the kids...We're kind of torn on this one.

[TexasSuz]

Vermont Mom, I wish more people here would listen to your voice of reason. CPS does more harm than good - in my opinion. I also totally agree that they treat people with higher incomes better than they do poorer families. I know this from experience with two families that have had CPS involved - the poorer family has had them in their lives for years (with absolutely no results - just more stress on the entire family and probably more emotional abuse because of it). The rich family only got two visits and I suspect real abuse in their case. The CPS lady was so nice to them and apologized for brothering them! UG - they make me sick!

So put up a sign if you don't want to see spanking or hitting of any kind in your office but that is not going to change how people parent at home. Even CPS "parenting classes" don't do that!

[prettypixels]

The sign might not be a bad idea... especially signs/quotes about patience and the love of children which are more roundabout gentle comments (less alienating). But I wouldn't write that mom a letter and/or try to chase away her business. At least you (OP) know you are aware of the situation and will be able to in some small way, monitor it. Another dentist might not notice, or might not bother to pay attention, or might just shrug it off. If they keep coming to see you, you'll be able to tell if the situation really escalates in a major way and take appropriate action. Hopefully that will never happen!!!!

99% of the time I think kids are better off with their parents, even if they are bad parents. But it is so hard to see and watch. So, so hard.