How to teach a baby no?

[sesa70]

Hello!

I am new to this forum, I usually hang out over in adoption

I am wondering what is the best way to teach a baby no? My dd is crawling and getting into everything. I have my house pretty well childproofed and I dont see anything dangerous to her, but there are a few things I cant move that I dont want her to play with.

One example is my computer desk! I have the wires and outlets covered up with a big hard plasic tupperware top (like from the huge 55 gallon storage things) so she cant get to it, but she can still get to the mouse and keyboard wires. She loves to pull them and then chew on them. She has also recently discovered the cat littler box, and well, thats just gross

So I have been telling her no in a firm voice and picking her up and moving her over. I then tell her something like wires arent for babies and give her a toy that is appropriate and tell her she can play with this instead.

The problem is she just doent get it! She laughs (espeically at my firm voice, that usually brings on giggle fits) and goes right back to it.

What am I doing wrong? How do I teach her no?

[ZeldasMom]

I am not into teaching babies no. I think it would be a drag to hear, no, no, no all the time, YKWIM? Also, I don't know that it really works.

In Living Joyfullly with Children Bill and Win Sweet talk about teaching little ones the concept of "this is a museum," which is basically telling them kindly and gently that X is a museum, a looking place but not a touching place. Then you let them look, but not touch. You do this many, many times (20 or 30, let's say), and supposedly they eventually get the idea. As an experiment I am doing this with our under the sink area (I have cleared away everything dangerous) with our 12 mo.

The big thing I do for areas I don't want DD into are (1) supervision and (2) babyproofing.

HTH!

[ShaggyDaddy]

move your computer up on to the desk and/or get wireless mouse/keyboard (they are cheap now)

There are lots of places a cat can get to that a kid (or even adult) can't... I would suggest moving the litter box.

I think a firm voice is a little harsh... If they are too young to disregard cat poo, they are too young to understand boundaries which include "you can see it and reach it, but not touch it"

With us the more "babyproof" we make the house, the easier our lives are. You don't have to constantly redirect if they can safely explore and play

[NiteNicole]

We are looking for kid or pet gates to go around our computer desks. Our dog has a bed next to my husband's desk that he hangs out in all day (he's a lazy kinda dog) so we want one of the gates to have a pet door. I think it's way easier to just make it in accessable than to fight her on it.

In all honesty, I just don't think there's any way to teach "no" at this age - well, no way that will be pleasant for either of you.

[rmzbm]

What Zelda's mom said. Just redirect. Too many "no"s at this age will make them useless.

[sesa70]

Thank you!

I totally agree... babies this age are into so much that I do feel bad with everything being no no no all the time!

I am also trying to teach her to be gentle, that is actually going much better. Her sister is disabled, and baby dd is in the eye poking stage... older dd cannot turn away quick enough so often gets poked. So, we take her hand and touch very softly and say gentle and smile. We also have a cat and dogs that we try to teach her to be gentle with. She seems to get it.

So, if your telling them that they can look but not touch, what do you do when they touch the thing they are only supposed to look at?

The wireless mouse/keyboard is a good idea, thanks!

Pretty much everything is baby safe, but there are always a few things that worry me, i dont know if I can ever do it 100%, kwim? Like the dog food bowl... not the end of the world for her to eat some dog food, but its just the right shape that she can choke on, so I dont let her in the kitchen unsupervised.

Just the other day I was vacuuming the house and she was crawling around following me, and next thing I know I turn around and she has the cord (plugged in and vacuum on!) in her mouth biting it. Thats the first time I ever used my firm voice and told her no and of course she thought it was hilarious. I am glad though that it wasnt too disturbing to her! What would you do in a situation like that where it can be really dangerous?

[ShaggyDaddy]

We say "ohhh, that scares me because it could hurt you." Cords are not for playing. Yeah we can't touch outlets because they could hurt Jet. And of course if the situation is dangerous, we will scoupe him up just like we would if there was an angry dog or a car comming or something like that. Because at this age he really can't really understand that he is doing something dangerous, but he can understand that he is in a dangerous situation and that his caregiver will help him get out of danger.

It is kind of funny seeing our 15 month old around an outlet... he will point at it and sort of taunt it. Like "stay away from me outlet, you aren't going to hurt me"

[Bartock]

We say well I do trying to train DH to stop saying no, "Please Don't touch" or "Please staydown" he listens, most of the time. And when he has stuff he should'nt, " Ta Ta to mommy, daddy, whoever" He will hand it to us sometimes but gets mad when we take it from him, so we will give him something else, like a trade.

[peacelovingmama]

I am glad to see these responses. I remember telling a friend that we hadn't told Halsea "no" yet (she was probably around 11 months) and the friend seemed so shocked. I started to question myself but it just never felt right to tell a baby "no."

We have always used redirection or positive phrasing (like "please color on paper" "doggies like gentle touch" etc.). Now that she is 2, I'm sure she has heard "no" but we really do limit it.

[sesa70]

Thank you everyone! I really do appreciate all the thoughful responses.

I am really at a loss as far as disipline (would it even be concidered discipline this young?) because we never had any these issues with my older dd. B/c of her special needs she doesnt walk, (or crawl) so she never got into anything.

Its funny, because I know what feels wrong and what I dont want to do, but I dont neccesarily know whats right or how to handle the situations appropriately, as they come up.

[sophmama]

I always used the word "ouchie" for anything dangerous. I also used it any time she got hurt or fell down or anything so she'd know what it meant. If something like cord chewing happened, I'd approach her a little dramatically saying, "Ouchie!! Ouchie!!" and grab her quickly so as to convey that there was danger in what she was doing. I never did try to teach "no" because it doesn't convey a reason. With things that were just "no" I tried mostly to babyproof.

I personally did give longer descriptions as to why certain things were off limit even though she was too young to understand. It's gotten me into a great habit as a mom of always always giving well thought out reasons to my kid as to why something is off limit. It also helps my kid (now almost 3) to know that mom only says no for good reasons - not just arbitrary rules. Giving explanations, even when they're too young to understand, really helps you as a mom see the situation from their eyes more as you try to put things in the simplest words possible.

For things like dog food, etc., I have always told my dd she could choke on something or it could give her tummy ouchies. I really found that the best way to reinforce the Ouchies thing was to refer to all pain felt by the baby (and as they start exploring they do get a lot of bumps along the way to give you chances to teach it), really enforces the idea that if mommy rushes over to baby and says, "ouchie!!" and points at the object, it means quite a bit more than, "No".

Worked for me anyways.

[ZeldasMom]

Originally Posted by sesa70

Pretty much everything is baby safe, but there are always a few things that worry me, i dont know if I can ever do it 100%, kwim?

Yeah, babyproofing is never 100% imo--that's why you need the supervision part.

About dog food, we have the same problem. I have been putting the dog food down for only so long and then put it up.

Originally Posted by sesa70

So, if your telling them that they can look but not touch, what do you do when they touch the thing they are only supposed to look at?

If you are doing the Sweet's approach you have to do the same routine, over and over again until they get it, each time doing it like you did the first time. Here is how they describe it:

You gently take hold of those little arms reaching out and say, with no tension, anger impatience, or yelling, "That is a museum in there, Sweetheart. A museum is a looking place, not a touching or grabbing place. Jut look, don't touch." You stand there repeating the words, and holding the child's arms until the straining to wrench free is relaxed. It is important that the child be allowed to look as long as she or he desires. Then carry on the same process again and again each time your child reaches out.

Okay, ZM here again. They encourage you not to overdue the areas designated as museums. They also say "Even though you know your child isn't able to understand you intellectually, accompany the physical limits you are setting with gentle words explaining the concept. The words and the actions both help the concept to gradually become a part of the child's consciousness...We call this Loving Learning, which is learning in an atmosphere where the child feels complete acceptance as a valued and appreciated person. There is no fear present in this atmosphere. Loving Learning supports joyful family living, and it is the most effective learning possible for children of all ages."

About forgetting they say:

When Ryan occasionally forgets, we gently repeat: "This is a museum (or a museum piece). Just look and don't touch," sometimes holding his arms while he looks. This is always done with kindness, relaxation, patience, and acceptance of the true Self of this individual...If Ryan grabs something and starts walking with it, we gently guide him back to the cupboard and help him put it back saying, "remember, Sweetie, all the things in there are museum pieces, just to look at, not to touch. Thanks for putting it back."

I should tell you that for me, ZM, this is all theoretical. With my first child I didn't try to teach him not to touch things, I just used babyproofing, supervision, and redirection (the nice thing about babies is it is generally pretty easy to get them interested in something else). I am just starting out trying the Sweet's approach with my second child. Also, they talk about doing this with toddlers, not babies per se.

[ASusan]

A comment on the laughing in response to your stern "no."

Infants and young toddlers laugh in response to your 'anger' in part, to repair the relationship between the two of you. It's a very fragile emotional dance that infant and caregiver do. Your 'anger' is threatening/frightening to her. Laughter and smiling, is a way to 'smooth over' whatever has just happened between the two of you.

[ZeldasMom]

Originally Posted by sophmama

I personally did give longer descriptions as to why certain things were off limit even though she was too young to understand. It's gotten me into a great habit as a mom of always always giving well thought out reasons to my kid as to why something is off limit. It also helps my kid (now almost 3) to know that mom only says no for good reasons - not just arbitrary rules. Giving explanations, even when they're too young to understand, really helps you as a mom see the situation from their eyes more as you try to put things in the simplest words possible.

It's helpful for me to hear this from someone who has done the explaining that the child won't intellectually comprehend. With my first child I didn't start with explanations until someone at LLL encouraged me to do it, and after I did it I wished I had started sooner. This is one of the reasons I was interested in trying the Sweet's approach with my DD.

[sesa70]

Originally Posted by ASusan

A comment on the laughing in response to your stern "no."

Infants and young toddlers laugh in response to your 'anger' in part, to repair the relationship between the two of you. It's a very fragile emotional dance that infant and caregiver do. Your 'anger' is threatening/frightening to her. Laughter and smiling, is a way to 'smooth over' whatever has just happened between the two of you.

I had no idea! Thank you for pointing this out. I seriously just thought that she thought it was silly that I firmly told her no! I feel bad now, poor little thing.

See... I am so glad I found you group of parents!
I was talking to my gma the other day and we were talking about dd and how she is into everything... I said it with a smile, because I am proud of her curiousity and her newfound ability to explore. She said I should be 'punishing' her and teaching her, that she was too young to hit but I should just slap her on the hand until she was older, then it was ok to hit her. Umm, hello! Isnt slapping on the hand hitting? It really made me sad that she thought she had to tell me not to hit my infant daughter. I will never hit her, and told her that, and of course she just laughed and said just wait.

I want to do better for my kids than my parents did for me. Thanks for all the support!

[ZeldasMom]

Originally Posted by sesa70

I want to do better for my kids than my parents did for me.

That's what alot of us are trying to do.

[sesa70]

Originally Posted by sophmama

I personally did give longer descriptions as to why certain things were off limit even though she was too young to understand. It's gotten me into a great habit as a mom of always always giving well thought out reasons to my kid as to why something is off limit. It also helps my kid (now almost 3) to know that mom only says no for good reasons - not just arbitrary rules. Giving explanations, even when they're too young to understand, really helps you as a mom see the situation from their eyes more as you try to put things in the simplest words possible.

Actually, I am pretty good about doing this too. My older dd is non verbal, but very bright. She is also visually impaired. So, ever since she was about 6 months old (she is 7 now) I have been talking and explaining everthing to her. I tell her what we are doing now, what we are doing next, what the duck at the pond is doing and why, etc. It just seemed to carry over to my baby dd as well. I always try to tell her why she has to be gentle and what happens if she isnt, why I dont think she should do something etc. When I was a kid, my aunt used to say all the time 'because I am the adult and you are the child' it used to drive me batty, and still does to be honest. I think thats one of the reasons I really strive to make sure my kids know what is going on and that its clear to them why something is the way it is, not just because I say so.

[TripMom]

Great Article - "What Does your Child under Three Really 'Know' about 'no'"

Here is a great article about what a baby/toddler really understands about the word "no" - please take a look - I think it will really give you a better framework to understand the issue.

http://positivediscipline.com/articles/no.html

I think you'll need cut and paste this in your browser to work. Let me know if there are any problems.

[ZeldasMom]

Originally Posted by TripMom

Here is a great article about what a baby/toddler really understands about the word "no" - please take a look - I think it will really give you a better framework to understand the issue.

http://positivediscipline.com/articles/no.html

I think you'll need cut and paste this in your browser to work. Let me know if there are any problems.

That is really good TripMom--thanks for sharing!

[sesa70]

Thank you tripmom for that article! It was very helpful. I emailed it to dh at work too!