Letting 14yo quit an AP World Civ class? *Update*

[KentuckyDoulaMama]

My 14yo dd is in over her head with an AP World Civ class this year.

The class is VERY demanding. My 16yo dd actually took the same class last year but what a difference a teacher makes.

There is just too much work. Too much. If it were her only class, fine, she could devote all her time to it. But its too much. I'm having a hard time helping her muddle through this stuff. She is stressing alot over this class and the workload, her other classes are suffering, her main interest is drama and she doesn't have time for practicing for the school play she got a part in, she doesnt have time for Wednesday night church activities, ect....Her great GPA is gonna take a nosedive.

The teacher is not sympathetic to the workload, kids have complained alot but he just says "you all are the best and brightest in the school, this isn't too hard or too much."

She's just not ready for this class.
So, if it were your child, would you let her drop the class? I really don't like giving her the impression that if something is hard, then you quit.
BUT this is really over her head, maybe she could try it again next year. Heck, its over my head!

I know the school is going to give me a VERY hard time about letting her out of the class. But her best friend was let out last week, with a "secret agreement." (she is an office aid during that class time now) If they let one out, shouldnt they have to let all who want out, out?

Anyhow, anyone have any opinions?

[Greenie]

I don't see why not! I, personally, dropped classes and changed my schedule w/o my parents knowing.. I just felt like my school time should be mine....

But I think that that they should be more than happy to let her out if you ask for it.

[talk de jour]

Most schools don't even allow kids below junior level to take AP courses, and I really question their judgment at allowing your dd to enroll at all.

I would let her drop it in a second. It seems like too much, too soon.

[terrordactyl]

let her drop it and try again next year it seems like its way to over her head and she needs to focus on other stuff. as for the school not letting her drop it if they have let other kids do it they have to let your daughter do it.

[bu's mama]

Let her drop it!

I don't think you're teaching her to quit when something is too hard, but showing her how to prioritize...almost everything else is suffering and for what? Especially if she can enroll next year or the year after. As a teacher, I'm all for setting the bar high & expecting students to rise to that level, but there's also a point where the demands are unreasonable.

[bu's mama]

Oh and the school not 'letting' her drop it...that deserves a phone call to the principal if that's really the case.

[Moon Faerie]

Originally Posted by talk de jour

Most schools don't even allow kids below junior level to take AP courses, and I really question their judgment at allowing your dd to enroll at all.

I would let her drop it in a second. It seems like too much, too soon.

: I took a whole slew of AP classes in high school. I was basically a poster-child for over-extended over-achievers, and I think that's too early for a class that demanding.

[Meg Murry.]

I teach AP, and I'll be honest with you: my first three weeks are spent weeding out the students who honestly should not be there, or should not be there yet. No offense to them, but the AP is nothing to mess around with. It is a difficult exam, and I have no desire to teach students who are either unwilling or unable -- for their sakes as much as mine.

Really, I'd advise your dd to take it some other time, like when she's a junior. Hopefully, having had a taste of it already, she'll know what she's getting into and there won't be a conflict.

Originally Posted by KentuckyDoulaMama

My 14yo dd is in over her head with an AP World Civ class this year.

The class is VERY demanding. My 16yo dd actually took the same class last year but what a difference a teacher makes.

There is just too much work. Too much. If it were her only class, fine, she could devote all her time to it. But its too much. I'm having a hard time helping her muddle through this stuff. She is stressing alot over this class and the workload, her other classes are suffering, her main interest is drama and she doesn't have time for practicing for the school play she got a part in, she doesnt have time for Wednesday night church activities, ect....Her great GPA is gonna take a nosedive.

The teacher is not sympathetic to the workload, kids have complained alot but he just says "you all are the best and brightest in the school, this isn't too hard or too much."

She's just not ready for this class.
So, if it were your child, would you let her drop the class? I really don't like giving her the impression that if something is hard, then you quit.
BUT this is really over her head, maybe she could try it again next year. Heck, its over my head!

I know the school is going to give me a VERY hard time about letting her out of the class. But her best friend was let out last week, with a "secret agreement." (she is an office aid during that class time now) If they let one out, shouldnt they have to let all who want out, out?

Anyhow, anyone have any opinions?

[kimiij]

I have a slightly different answer. Before you decide to take her out (if you haven't already) I think you both need to sit down and determine if the class too much for her or if it is just different and challenging? If it is the latter, I think it would be great for her to stick with it. If it is too much, and would hurt more than help, then I would agree with taking her out.

Also, especially since school just started,the class may become easier as she gets used to the routine of the class and as the teacher lets down his guard (as they are sometime apt to do in an AP class).

Additionally, AP Classes are supposed to be college level, so its not surprising that the kids complain about there being a lot of work. I think that is completely normal and would be worried if the kids didn't do a little bit of groaning.

Just something to think about. Good luck!

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDoulaMama

I really don't like giving her the impression that if something is hard, then you quit.
BUT this is really over her head, maybe she could try it again next year. Heck, its over my head!

I think that sometimes in life we start things that we find out aren't a good fit for us and we should therefore stop doing them. It's unfortunate that this is called "quitting" and has such bad connotations, because sorting through what we want and don't want to put our time and engery into is complex, and there is a time to say "no, this isn't for me."

I think that having a real conversation about deciding when to step back from something is a good idea. People end up in jobs that take over their lives, but they feel they can't quit, people get sucked into volunteer organizations that just take and take and the person feels like they can't say no, there are people who stay in marriages where they are treated badly because they were taught to not quit, etc. Sometimes, quitting is a good thing.

Knowing when to quit and when to stay is difficult and I think that saying "don't be a quitter" ignores the real issue about making real choices with one's life.

[Red]

I would let her drop it. WHy make her miserable and have her hate learning?

[Tinas3muskateers]

Originally Posted by Red

I would let her drop it. WHy make her miserable and have her hate learning?

:

[2mama]

I would let her drop it, she has proven that she is a hard worker (or just very gifted) by being able to even get into the class. Why make the year a nightmare? Enjoy the year and let her pick something she will enjoy and be successful in.

[lisac77]

I would definitely take stock and see if there's really too much work, but if that turns out to be the case, I say drop it like a hot rock!

I did this in college a couple of times. When I saw that a particular class was going to usurp an unusual amount of time to the point where I couldn't get everything done, I would drop it an schedule it as a lone class for a summer term or in a lighter semester. Since AP work is college level work, I see no problem with trying again next year (and possibly taking into account her other classes for next year and scheduling them accordingly).

[KentuckyDoulaMama]

Thanks everyone.
She brought home her midterm today and she got a D for the class!!!

She's never, ever gotten anything lower than a B in anything, including advanced, gifted & talented classes, ect....

She has really, really put alot of time and effort into trying to make it work for this class. She's just not clicking with this college level stuff. Heck, I've been in college for almost 4 years now and I am very hard pressed to help her with this class. It is a very heavy workload, very heavy. Heavier than any classes I've taken in my nursing degree journey. The reading is very advanced and over her head. Truthfully alot of it is over my head & I have a very high reading level and she tested at a 12th grade reading level in second grade.

I agree that it doesnt make any sense to keep her in this. Like a pp said, maybe next year. Its causing her alot of stress, she's not getting enough sleep at night cause she's up past midnight working on writing papers and reading for this class. She's not comprehending alot of the material obviously.

So, I'm calling the counselor tomorrow. I'm expecting to be given a problem with withdrawing her. Apparently its not allowed??? Like I said in the OP, her best friend just dropped it last week and the counselor made her promise not to tell anyone and made a "secret deal" with her about it. She's now an office aide during that class period.

I hate dealing with school officials.
Dd told me tonight that other kids had talked about dropping the course and the teacher chastised them in front of the whole class. Said things like "What are you going to do, be a quitter your whole life?" "Whats the matter, you dont want to work hard enough?" "Are you too lazy?"
And when my dd's friend dropped the course, the teacher took a plastic skull and put it on her empty desk :

Wish me luck!

[Linda on the move]

Good luck!!! When you talk to the counselsor, let him/her know the whole story, including the skull.

If this is supposed to be like a college class, then dropping should encouraged! University professors usually state to be sure and drop before the drop date so you don't end up with an F. In college, dropping is normal, stopping going to class but not offically dropping is bad.

When she takes this again, is is possible to make sure she gets a different teacher? This one sounds a bit nuts.

Why can't she transfer into another history class? A nice normal one.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDoulaMama

Dd told me tonight that other kids had talked about dropping the course and the teacher chastised them in front of the whole class. Said things like "What are you going to do, be a quitter your whole life?" "Whats the matter, you dont want to work hard enough?" "Are you too lazy?"
And when my dd's friend dropped the course, the teacher took a plastic skull and put it on her empty desk :

Wish me luck!

Whoa! That is so uncalled-for. Speaking as a teacher, that's not only unkind, it's deeply unprofessional. I would seriously bring this issue up, frankly. That's WAY out of line. In all honesty, when someone drops my AP class, I'm glad. I'm not glad to see them go -- heck, early on, I hardly know them -- but I'm glad they're deciding for themselves early on before they get a grade that may mar their GPAs.

Selfishly speaking too, their AP scores are reported to the administration, so if they don't score well, I look bad. That may be my fault, sure, absolutely -- but if they're simply not ready for the class or don't have the time for it, it's *not,* but I'm still accountable for their scores.

I can't believe your dd's teacher's utter lack of professionalism. What a jerk.

[Meg Murry.]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDoulaMama

It is a very heavy workload, very heavy. Heavier than any classes I've taken in my nursing degree journey. The reading is very advanced and over her head. Truthfully alot of it is over my head & I have a very high reading level and she tested at a 12th grade reading level in second grade.

I agree that it doesnt make any sense to keep her in this. Like a pp said, maybe next year.

It's amazing the development between 14 and (for example) 16 in terms of global understanding and sophistication. World Civ really requires both, IMHO, even though that's not the AP I teach. It takes a really extensive, broad history background to build the necessary supporting structures for the information she's getting. My really strong advice would be to have her study world civ. on her own this year and summertime, starting from where the AP starts and teaching herself the fundamentals. That way, if she takes it again next fall, she'll be way more prepared by having learned those basics.

Good luck.

[PajamaMama]

Originally Posted by KentuckyDoulaMama

Her great GPA is gonna take a nosedive.

I would let her out of it. She's only 14!

I quoted you just because I want to ask if you are sure about this. Her AP class grade may be weighted differently than a mainstream history class. There were kids in my high school with weighted GPAs near 6.0 because they took nothing but AP/honors/etc classes. Of course my hs reunion is approaching and I don't work in the education field, so things may have changed a lot since then...

but maybe you should check into that, and even if she has to take a C or D for this quarter, it might not hurt her overall gpa as much as you think.

Oh...and the teacher sounds like a real ass. What a way to NOT motivate people!

[KentuckyDoulaMama]

Well, this morning I left a message for the counselor asking that she be allowed to drop. It went as I expected it would. I got a call back with a message saying that its getting to be too late in the year to drop a class and so he's really reluctant to let her. He said he'll meet with her Thursday and discuss her options (what options?!) for continuing in the class for the rest of the year.

Ummm.....no, don't think so. I can't STAND this type of school authority bullcrap. I'm her parent, I don't want her in the class, take her out. Period, end of discussion. How is it too late in the year? School is 5 weeks in, all they do is give kids who drop a study hall or assign them to be office or library aides.

It makes me soooo mad, my dd is not their child.
Yes, I have school authority issues :
So, now I have to get very demanding and be one of "those" parents and I have a hard time doing it and keeping myself levelheaded. :