mystery rash on 6 month dd face

[Lemon Juice]

I'm not sure if this fits here or not..or where to post this!? But my dd has has these horrible "rashes" on her face (like below the cheek on sides of face...and on a spot in the back of head) Well we see a reg ped and she didn't know what it was. It's been happening since birth. It'll get red hot..little bumps then she attach scratches it and is crying, upset, you name it! And they bleed b/c she's scratching so hard They often leak a kind of clear stuff from them (looks orange due to a bit of "blood" in it at times b/c of the scratching).

We thought it was heat rash at first b/c we live in Seattle and the first time it was 75 it popped up and then would fade away...only to pop up when "warm" again (which is very warm to us!). Then we went to TX to visit family and it was full force rash! She was miserable there w/ the heat to begin w/ but her rash would calm down once inside and AC on (which was a nice cool 78 degrees ) So we came back..nice cool WA summers and she was fine for a while. Until is popped up again but only on back of head!!! grrrrr...

This time doc thought it was cradle cap that was getting mad. So we removed all the cc and she gave a medicine (I didn't want to use stuff like that on dd...but she was miserable!) So my hands felt tied....It did go away and all was well...until it was gone. Then it popped up on cheeks only and never again on back of head!! So her cheeks are full force rash..all the time. Goes away..and a few hours after getting better and healing..comes roaring back!! I don't think it's food related...I just don't know what it is! And I don't want to go back to the doc b/c I don't want a harsh medicine that could harm her (the old stuff used won't work b/c she can touch her cheeks..get it on her hands..and we don't wanna go there!)

Are there any natural things I can do to help my babe? Poor thing is covered in a rash..and it's all people notice about her. Not how sweet...how amazing she is..just "what is that" "oh no...poor thing..look at that rash"

any help would be soooo great!

[Plummeting]

Are you sure it's not eczema? It really sounds like it could be, but I'm having trouble believing a doctor would be so inept as to not recognize eczema. Here are some pictures of baby with eczema on their cheeks (keep in mind that the pictures for these websites are always severe, so if your baby's isn't that bad, it could still be eczema - of course, it sounds like your baby's really might be this severe):

http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/atopic.html

I hope you get it figured out!

[Lemon Juice]

Thanks soooo much for this link! And yes...she is that severe It did sound like eczema..but she has been getting it since she was a newborn...so it said on the site it could be this: "Seborrhoeic dermatitis is a common, harmless, scaling rash affecting the face, scalp and other areas."

Which may be itchy...and the pics looked just like it (but so did the ecsema..but she attacks it so much that may be why it looks so bad) And she had the yucky scales on the back of the scalp (so this is actually what our doc thought it was...b/c she said it was related to cradle cap). The cream she gave did work and cleared that up great (and it was so bad..and in a circle shape..like mentioned on the site) and I thought it would never go away! I'm so concerned on what would help clear this up...something natural or not so harsh since it's on her face.

I am so grateful for your help! If I could figure out how to post pics (can we post pics to our posts like on the babywearer? or just links?) I will try to take a pic and post it tomorrow. I'll snap one while she's sleeping right now and get it up tomorrow....thanks again!!!

[Plummeting]

I think it *is* eczema, if it looks like the picture. (BTW, I responded to your last post last night, but it disappeared into internet oblivion and I was too tired to type up another one. ) DD's eczema started out as "seborrheic dermatitis" behind her ears. I don't know how they can decide that it's automatically not eczema until they reach a certain age. That doesn't really make sense to me, kwim? Basically, with DD the doc kept telling me she had cradle cap behind her ears. Then all of the sudden at a year, the doc started calling it eczema. I had been saying it was eczema for a loooooong time already by then, but whatever.

So, for eczema, the things your baby needs are:

zinc
cod liver oil
primrose oil (orally and topically)
vitamin c
probiotics
avoidance of all known allergens

If you haven't tried an elimination diet, I would highly recommend it. I think most people would recommend that you eliminate all dairy and soy from your diet (you're nursing, right?) and your DD's diet, in all forms. Not only does that mean you have to eliminate the obvious soybeans, soymilk, soy oil, butter, milk, cream, cheese, etc. It also means you have to eliminate things that contain:

monosodium glutamate (MSG)
lactose
whey
casein
sodium caseinate
lactalbumin

Sometimes "natural flavor" also includes dairy or soy, so unless the package specifically says it's dairy and soy free, it might be in the natural flavoring. Soy and dairy are in practically everything and are major allergens, which contribute to eczema in many people. You would need to completely eliminate them for 4 weeks, before you could say for certain it was or was not related to dairy and/or soy, because it would take 3 full weeks just to get the proteins out of your milk, then you need to give your baby at least a few days for her body to calm down and heal. It might have nothing to do with anything you're eating, but it might and you're better safe than sorry, kwim? If you eliminate them and that doesn't help, at least you'll know you tried.

I really hope some mamas who've had serious eczema problems give you some more advice. I think I'll ask Jane to reply. She's had a lot of experience with this and has worked through it - from what I understand, her son no longer has eczema, just through dietary changes and supplements.

[Lemon Juice]

Thanks for the advise! dh has yet to download pics...hmmmm.

I know what you mean about the "label" of having it or not. B/c I ask EVERY time and she's like "no..it's probably cradle cap...or caused from it" And I do believe it has now turned into eczema Poor things had a BAD night last night...it goes in cycles... calms down and then when she breaks out in a rash, she's in so much pain (crying, scratching, upset). It really breaks my heart.....:

As for the elimination diet, I have not yet tried (since we thought it was cradle cap..or heat rash..etc). I shiver at going through this again. I did this w/ my first ds and it was HORRIBLE!!! I had to eliminate all dairy and soy (for over 3 months)...and being vegetarian it was not easy! Especially since soy is in everything! I lived on allergy websites and I so vividly remember looking up every single ingredient to see if it was a hidden dairy/soy product. IT was sooooo not fun! The hardest part was being around all the yummy food and not being able to eat (I really feel for people w/ allergies to food..it must be very difficult to have to avoid it when it's all around, especially children).

Then at the time dh's family came to visit and I met them for the first time (his mom, brother, and sis in law) and they wanted to go out to eat a LOT..and I could not eat...I sat there...they felt weird..I felt weird...blah!

Ah well....I guess i will have to eliminate once again for the sake of dd. You are so right...better safe than sorry!

[Plummeting]

So was your son actually allergic/intolerant or was it something else? If he was, then I would definitely suspect that in your daughter. Allergies aren't a genetic disease, but they run in families. I think it's just stupid that your doc keeps saying cradle cap. Cradle cap doesn't cause that kind of discomfort. Honestly, if she's miserable I would try medicating it. : It isn't the most natural thing, but eczema just isn't natural, period. All that scratching and broken skin could result in impetigo, which could then require antibiotics, etc., etc. First I would try the primrose oil applied topically, but if that didn't work fast, I'd suggest using some topical medication until you get it all sorted out. (Not Elidel, though, as it's been linked to cancer.)

[JaneS]

This could also be yeast, have you had thrush or digestive problems?

Is she EBF? Start her on bifidus supplements, I think Solaray Baby Life is dairy free. If she is allergic to foods, it is likely b/c the gut flora didn't seal up intestines.

Don't vax it will stress her immune system further.

The fats you eat pass directly onto your babe... so a diet high in vegetable fats, omega 6's, will contribute to this problem. Try to get more omega 3's and saturated fats in your diet. Also trans fats will block omega 3's, avoid them like plague.

Some eczema kids need EPO, some need flax or cod liver, Dr. Leo Galland's book Superimmunity for Kids explains why.

Quercetin is a great anti histamine.

Yes, Elidel suppresses the immune system quite badly. It's viewed as safer than steriods and that is totally wrong. Steriods also suppress immune system and lead to asthma for atopic kids. Driving the symptoms inward is not what you want to do, you want to get to the root of the problem.

Most vegetarians can be deficient in vitamin A, essential for skin and immune system, consider high vitamin cod liver oil.

[Lemon Juice]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

So was your son actually allergic/intolerant or was it something else? If he was, then I would definitely suspect that in your daughter. Allergies aren't a genetic disease, but they run in families. I think it's just stupid that your doc keeps saying cradle cap. Cradle cap doesn't cause that kind of discomfort. Honestly, if she's miserable I would try medicating it. : It isn't the most natural thing, but eczema just isn't natural, period. All that scratching and broken skin could result in impetigo, which could then require antibiotics, etc., etc. First I would try the primrose oil applied topically, but if that didn't work fast, I'd suggest using some topical medication until you get it all sorted out. (Not Elidel, though, as it's been linked to cancer.)

Doh! I didn't even tell ya why we did the whole elimination thing! well...here goes: (so off topic..but an interesting story none the less!)

When ds was like 6 weeks old he began having greenish bm's w/ tiny...very tiny blood spots. So he we were told to do the elimination diet of dairy and soy by a gatstro doc (who was a YALE grad btw....bah!). We did this and his blood level was tested as well. They thought he was allergic to one or the other and his blood count was low...alarming enough for them to try and force us to give ds 200% iron drops EVERY DAY!!! : (which I refused to do!) So...a few months before ds was born...dh was tested for something and turned out he had Thalassemia minor (just carried the trait, jic you don't know..it shows low blood count when in fact they are fine..but if I were to have the trait as well...our babes could have thalassemia MAJOR and that is bad...blood transfusion all your life and most pass away at a young age, etc) Anyhow...we had it confirmed by another doc after this happened to our ds. Dr. Yale would NOT believe ds carried that trait (b/c he was "from a country where his people carry this trait..he knows it and knows for a FACT that our ds does NOT have it...blah blah blah". All the while he's gaining weight...happy and hitting milestones on target...pretty much being a normal baby (but w/ green poops...and once in a while blood spots). No discomfort...no pain from any of this, either. SO..we keep going in and out of Dr.Yale's office. Finally it has been months...no dairy/soy and still no diff results. He then accuses me of sneaking a piece of "cheese" or "possibly taking a bite of a cookie when no one is looking" : GRRRRRRR!!! Words can NOT describe how much I dislike this jerk.

He finally tests ds for thalassemia after we bother him all these months and more to shut us up, I think! And...YES ds DOES have it.. man that was a nice moment..when he had to eat his words ..admit he was wrong in front of us! (but then say he couldn't believe it b/c he's never wrong about "these things"!)

So he orders a colonoscopy for ds at 5 months old! (which was INconclusive!) Dh wants to go ahead w/ it..at this point we were beside ourselves and felt like we were being judged by everything we did (from him and all of his staff). OH and the best part? He insisted that I STOP BREASTFEEDING!!!!! B/c formula would be BETTER than breastmilk ...and he's "obviously allergic" to my milk so a DAIRY based formula would do the trick! HE tried very hard to force us to stop and put him on that expensive allergy formula that we couldn't even afford b/c it was like a car payment! That aside..we told him we would never stop nursing (he was exclusive..no bottles of breastmilk either..just all boob all the time) and every time we went to his office we had a printed out copy from the internet about the importance of breastfeeding...why it's BETTER than formula ...etc! Can you believe this??? They treated us like we were too young and stupid (I was 21 at the time) so he assumed I was on formula anyway and/or that it would be "no big deal" to put ds on formula! GRRRRRR!!!

I was beside myself that a healthcare provider was telling me my milk was no good and I was hurting my son (when they couldn't even prove what was wrong w/ him!) I cried every night b/c all I wanted to do was breastfeed him and I was being told I was " bad parent" for doing so! Seriously. I almost wrote an article about it to share...but it was too painful (it was going to be called "Our (for dh and me) Struggle To Breastfeed".

SO..right when he started bleeding, a week before I was (i felt) tricked into getting a depo shot. I started to bleed the day before ds. When I slowed down...he slowed down (the green poops, blood spots). BUT we were told it was NOT related to that "no way". So we look into ....no research at that time (in 02) about what can happen when you bf and take the shot! NONE
SO i stop bleeding (I bled for four months straight w/ that darn thing) one day...like magic..gone! And the NEXT day ds stops...and his poops are yellow and normal, like it never happened!!!! Crazy, huh?! Or maybe not.

Needless to say...after the colonoscopy proved no results we never went back to Dr. Yale's office again. Cut him off...switched ped. and never looked back! He'll be 5 in a couple weeks now!

[Lemon Juice]

Originally Posted by JaneS

This could also be yeast, have you had thrush or digestive problems?

Is she EBF? Start her on bifidus supplements, I think Solaray Baby Life is dairy free. If she is allergic to foods, it is likely b/c the gut flora didn't seal up intestines.

Don't vax it will stress her immune system further.

The fats you eat pass directly onto your babe... so a diet high in vegetable fats, omega 6's, will contribute to this problem. Try to get more omega 3's and saturated fats in your diet. Also trans fats will block omega 3's, avoid them like plague.

Some eczema kids need EPO, some need flax or cod liver, Dr. Leo Galland's book Superimmunity for Kids explains why.

Quercetin is a great anti histamine.

Yes, Elidel suppresses the immune system quite badly. It's viewed as safer than steriods and that is totally wrong. Steriods also suppress immune system and lead to asthma for atopic kids. Driving the symptoms inward is not what you want to do, you want to get to the root of the problem.

Most vegetarians can be deficient in vitamin A, essential for skin and immune system, consider high vitamin cod liver oil.

I heard it could be yeast also (from another mama I know). Yes, she is EBF. I'm a bit confused as to some of the stuff you posted...b/c I don't know what it is! sorry

Like epo? and what kind of sat. fats are okay? examples?? please And bifidus? what exactly are these things? Also we do vax...she's had everything she's "suppose" to have for a 4 month old. We have not done the 6 months and up stuff. I'm so terrified to not vax tho....soooo terrified! what if she gets sick from something? : what if she catches something from not vaxing? and my other kids don't b/c they are vaxed...and dh would flip out if I didn't...and I would feel so horrible if something were to happen to her b/c I didn't vax. I never have touched this subject b/c I alway felt it better to vax b/c the risk was too high not to? kwim?

[Plummeting]

I think you'll find that a large, large percentage of the mamas at MDC do not vaccinate their children. I don't. JaneS doesn't. Take a peek in the vaccinations forum. There are hundreds of posters in there - almost all do not vaccinate and we are very, very educated about vaccines. This isn't something we did because we thought it just wasn't natural. This is a decision made based on tons and tons of research. I know more about vaccines and the diseases they are supposed to prevent than any doctor I've ever met in real life. There are a couple doctors and researchers that post in that forum, though, who also do not vaccinate. Vaccines aren't all they're cracked up to be and there is no reason you should believe it's "too risky" not to vaccinate.

[JaneS]

Originally Posted by cldistefano

I heard it could be yeast also (from another mama I know). Yes, she is EBF. I'm a bit confused as to some of the stuff you posted...b/c I don't know what it is! sorry

Like epo? and what kind of sat. fats are okay? examples?? please And bifidus? what exactly are these things? Also we do vax...she's had everything she's "suppose" to have for a 4 month old. We have not done the 6 months and up stuff. I'm so terrified to not vax tho....soooo terrified! what if she gets sick from something? : what if she catches something from not vaxing? and my other kids don't b/c they are vaxed...and dh would flip out if I didn't...and I would feel so horrible if something were to happen to her b/c I didn't vax. I never have touched this subject b/c I alway felt it better to vax b/c the risk was too high not to? kwim?

EPO=evening primrose oil as Plummeting suggested. More in "The Eczema Tribe" thread.

Info. on fats here: http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

Bifidus is a probiotic, a different type than acidophilus for example. Bifidus (aka bifidobacterium) is the dominant good bacteria in the intestines of healthy breastfed infants. This dominance is the key factor that helps their gut seal up after birth and is very protective against Rotavirus. Things like antibiotics, thrush, early formula or solids, and also vaccinations, disrupt this intestinal flora balance. Some kids' guts never seal up, stay "leaky" and therefore have more of a tendancy to react to food and environmental antigens as the proteins are attacked by the immune system without the natural buffer. Healthy gut flora/bifidus dominance aids the infants' immune system in figuring out "self" and "not self" as it learns to react to the bombardment of foreign proteins a new human is exposed to.

What I know now about how the vaccines damage the developing immune system of a child ... I think it is much too risky TO vax. I'm personally terrified of vaxing. One trip to the Vaccine Adverse Events Database (VAERS) shows that reactions are quite common these days. I feel that an immune system that is already under seige from everyday life, exhibiting serious eczema, is too fragile to deal with more and has more of a likelihood of a reaction.

The diseases are not so horrible to deal with once you learn about how to treat them effectively. Most are quite rare and normal childhood illness. (Chicken pox is being marketed as a killer disease now that there is a vaccine! please!) And with the case of chicken pox, the vaccine wears off, and an adult who hasn't gotten it, is more likely to get shingles ... a much more serious disease.

At least consider waiting until you do more research and she is older and might be past whatever her immune system is having trouble handling now. Especially the live viruses: MMR, Varicella.