3 yo still in diapers, help me undestand - Page 7

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by Stayathomemommy

I agree with MamaInTheBoonies maybe he just needs some encouragement to start PL. I am not saying he should be completely potty trained yet but he should be started by now.

Because you and MitB, and the others suggesting it on this thread know this boy better than his PARENTS who have said they are following his cues? :

What if she decided he did or did not need to be eating solids? Would that be an appropriate thing for her to be trying to introduce on her time table or the parents?

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by Stayathomemommy

I agree with MamaInTheBoonies maybe he just needs some encouragement to start PL. I am not saying he should be completely potty trained yet but he should be started by now.

I guess I am wondering what "encouragement" and "be started" means. Field trip to the toilet? Tell him what poop and pee is? Introduce the concept of underwear?

I'm just having a difficult time imagining a (typically developing) 3 yo who does not know those things, and who has never had a conversation with a caretaker about diapering vs pottying. A 3 yo in a literate family who has never been read a book on pottying. A 3 yo who hasn't figured out that other people use the potty. If a 3 yo is not yet "ready" to sit on a potty (ready being defined by the parent), I am going to assume the parent has a good reason for believing so!

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by mmace

I understand that it grosses you out, but honestly, if you were my child care provider and called me to come pick up my child because he had pooped, that would be the last day you would care for him.

ITA

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by joesmom

This is supposed to be a gentle discipline, child led parenting site. My child is FAR more important to me than the number of diapers he contributed to a landfill. No, I am not proud that we did not use cloth diapers or EC from day one, but at the time of his birth I did what I knew how to do. Believing 100% that my son, & many of the kids mentioned in this thread, would have been emotionally harmed by forcing them out of pullups is NOT a "ridiculous notion." It is a fact. I know my son. You do not.

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Well, here we differ. As the earth is more important for my family. Without the earth, we will die. The earth can live without us, but we cannot live without the earth.

I agree with Joesmom.

[rileysmommy]

boys are just different.
you can't keep them on the same page as girls.
on EVERY level, from potty learning to education.

i think on average boys are about 3 when they learn.
mine was 3.3
i have a 2 yo son now.. and he thinks the potty is a game.
i won't even attempt until close to 3.

but i do wonder if my dd will learn sooner then that.

don't fret.
try and gain some comfort with it.
you can't help how you feel, and i understand that.
but realize that you raised girls, so this boy thing is all new water for you!

and frankly, if PL is the only issue thats cropped up with caring for a 2 yo boy, after having had only girls, then you are lucky.
becasue 2 and 3 yo boys are a special thing, um.... well, yeah, i will stick with that word. SPECIAL.

you might get him to pee on the potty.
by casually mentioning it afte ryou ahve changed him, and before he get a fesh diaper put on( this is when my 2yo likes to sit on the potty).
but i would not push the issue.

[chfriend]

that boys are different thing is fine and dandy until it's a girl that doesn't potty learn before some prescribed time, sit still or who talks late, or....

Really, I had the experience of my dd1 talking late. People repeatedly said, "Well boys just sometimes get it later." Umm, how is that helping?

*Kids* are all different. They have their own needs and timetables. It seems like it's just not that hard to respect that.

[Sydnee]

[QUOTE=fuller2;6099025]My son started using the potty when he was about 18 months old, and I also have been occasionally babysitting 3-year-olds who still use diapers.

At the risk of inviting much displeasure (and knowing that my experience is unusual in our culture) I have to say that it seems that kids potty-learn much later these days then they used to. A day care provider I know who's been doing for 20 years says that kids start using the potty a year or two later than they did even 10 years ago--she blames disposable diapers and especially pull-ups, because they are so absorbent the kid can't really feel the 'outcome' of what they just did. Another problem is the day care environment--providers just aren't, in most cases, going to work on potty training because diapers are a lot easier that dealing with 'accidents'--and then when mom and dad come home from work, they are ALSO too tired to deal with accidents--so the diapers stay on.

Well, I'm a daycare provider, and I am more than willing to start PL with all my kids, WHEN they are ready, and I will not have them in underwear until they are going on a toilet on a regular basis. I do not want other kids' poop/pee in my carpeting: Call me what you will. But I do the every half hour going on the potty thing, works fine. DD#1 was PL in about a wee right after her second birthday. DD#2 was 3.5 before she literally woke up one day and has gone on the toilet ever since. So, in My experience, YE they can wake up one day and be PL!!!

[Sydnee]

Originally Posted by joesmom

Well, I can't say for sure that a child who had never seen someone use utensils would wake up one day & make a fork, but who knows? SOMEONE woke up one day & made a fork, right? They weren't here since the dawn of time. :

I don't understand your point about families who never had toilets- that almost certainly does not apply to anyone here. I did not lock Joe in a windowless room & expect he would one day break out looking for a porcelain container filled with water, into which he could evacuate his bowels & then flush it neatly away. He had a little potty, a seat to put on the big potty, a stepstool. He was (ALWAYS!! ) in the bathroom with me when I used the toilet. He knew what to do, & when to do it; he just was NOT comfortable with taking the next step. Just like he was not comfortable falling asleep without nursing until he was almost four years old. I can't see any of you, Mothering mamas, for Heaven's sake, being critical of me nursing my son until he weaned himself- so I guess it always confuses me when these threads pop up. I trust my son to know what he needs & when he needs it, in regard to nursing, sleep, food, education... why would I raise him like that but then force him to sit on the potty when he is genuinely NOT ready? : : Makes NO sense to me.





Not to me. Read the old parenting books. Kids were FORCED to sit on the potty, for loooong stretches of time. Ridiculed & beaten if they soiled their underwear. Mothers put their children on the potty at regular intervals. IMO most of those kids weren't trained at all- their mothers were. I am not saying that there aren't kids who can learn to use the potty at a young age- I do believe that some two year olds are ready & willing... I do believe that if you are committed to EC, it can be a good thing... but every child is different. The range for learning to walk, to talk, to read, varies sooo much- so why should every kid learn to use the potty at a certain age? I am genuinely confused.

LOVE this post, so true, so true!!!!!

[newmommy]

Why is this Thread on a AP website? I can't believe Parents are being judged because their child is not PL by Age 2. This is sad.

You wouldn't find this type of judgement on a Mainstream site.

PS, DS has ZERO interest in PL and I am not pushing him. He will learn when HE is ready to learn.

[Amylcd]

My child was well over 3 before she was interested in the potty. She was completely out of diapers within two months of starting her learning. I believe children should have complete control over this... they will start when *they* are ready. My 2 year old started to use the potty this spring and is now completely out of diapers.

I will not "train" my next child to use the potty either. I will always have it easily accessible to them... but i will not force the subject.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by Pynki

Because you and MitB, and the others suggesting it on this thread know this boy better than his PARENTS who have said they are following his cues? :

What if she decided he did or did not need to be eating solids? Would that be an appropriate thing for her to be trying to introduce on her time table or the parents?

Human beings have never sat in their own feces until recently. Don't even bother with extremes like the Inuit or other People's who live in areas where they cannot be naked.
EC is the most natural and GD way to teach our children. It is also the healthiest and most sanitary.

I would be more worried about teh other 3 yr olds who are gonna make fun of the child who reeks. I have done daycare and hae seen how the other kids are much more likely to tell the other kid to "get away from me! You stink!"

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Get a grip. Human beings have never sat in their own feces until recently. Don't even bother with extremes like the Inuit or other People's who live in areas where they cannot be naked.
EC is the most natural and GD way to teach our children. It is also the healthiest and most sanitary.

I would be more worried about teh other 3 yr olds who are gonna make fun of the child who reeks. I have done daycare and hae seen how the other kids are much more likely to tell the other kid to "get away from me! You stink!"

Did you just say "Get a grip" to a mother at MDC who feels it's a good thing to follow a child's cues? I'm growing increasingly saddened by the number of mamas who are new here to MDC who promote ideas that are not AP. But you have been here a long time and I just don't get this coming from you.


"Get a grip."??? wow, just wow.

[~member~]

Originally Posted by artgoddess

Did you just say "Get a grip" to a mother at MDC who feels it's a good thing to follow a child's cues? I'm growing increasingly saddened by the number of mamas who are new here to MDC who promote ideas that are not AP. But you have been here a long time and I just don't get this coming from you.


"Get a grip."??? wow, just wow.

And twice you have posted in this thread just to mock my posts and yet have added nothing to the discussion.

[~member~]

Humans are born defecating and urinating. They are not born able to eat solids, that is why we have breastmilk.
That is also why it makes sense to follow the child's cues on self feeding.

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

And twice you have posted in this thread just to mock my posts and yet have added nothing to the discussion.

I did not mock you, I asked you about your post, not the same thing. Just because I do not feel the same way you do on this issue does not mean my posts have added nothing to the discussion.

[Pynki]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Human beings have never sat in their own feces until recently. Don't even bother with extremes like the Inuit or other People's who live in areas where they cannot be naked.
EC is the most natural and GD way to teach our children. It is also the healthiest and most sanitary.

I would be more worried about teh other 3 yr olds who are gonna make fun of the child who reeks. I have done daycare and hae seen how the other kids are much more likely to tell the other kid to "get away from me! You stink!"

I've known plenty of three year olds have 3 boys age 3 and older now, and as long as you are changing the child there isn't any wallowing in fecal matter. Most of the time, the other kids don't even notice. The MOMS notice before the kids do.

[savithny]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Humans are born defecating and urinating. They are not born able to eat solids, that is why we have breastmilk.
That is also why it makes sense to follow the child's cues on self feeding.

And all apes and all hunter-gatherers wean, many non-gently, before a sibling is born. Tandem nursing is almost unknown. Yet I don't see anyone going over to the child-led weaning board and saying "Mothers instinctively want to wean, go with your parental cues." Instead, Mamas who are struggling with the desire to wean get lots of support for letting their children wean at their own pace and at a timetable which may be at odds with their own feelings, but in a way that works for their child.

Humans may be born defecating and urinating, but for millenia we didn't have toilets or clothing, either. Different peoples have come up with different plans for dealing with it. Many cultures swaddled infants tightly for up to a year, changing the wrappings and the diapering wadding only daily, if that. Not all those people lived in climates where they could not go naked. The variety in what is natural human behavior is HUGE - there is more difference between the behaviors of different groups than there is between *species* of other apes!

I don't think anyone is proposing keeping children completely ignorant of the existence of the toilet and what goes on there. Nor are they saying that those who choose to do EC are somehow hung up or abusive or not GD - why the insistence on calling those who are working with their older children *less* GD? Not everyone *can* do EC, given the demands of the rest of modern life, and if those who don't do EC do whatever they *do* with at least care to the environmental consquences of their decisions and with respect and love towards their children, why does it matter to *you*, and why should there be so much squick-and-judgement?

[Persephone]

Originally Posted by savithny

Tandem nursing is almost unknown. Yet I don't see anyone going over to the child-led weaning board and saying "Mothers instinctively want to wean, go with your parental cues."

Well, actually, I think that tandem nursing is "unnatural" in the sense that it's not biologically optimal. But I would NEVER go over to the bf forums and say that, cause I'd be flamed right out of there!

I also tend to lean on the side that 3 is a bit old to still be in diapers, and I do blame the manufacturers of the products for older kids in having a vested interest in keeping kids in diapers longer. But I don't know enough about PL or ages kids PL to really say one way or the other.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

I would be more worried about teh other 3 yr olds who are gonna make fun of the child who reeks. I have done daycare and hae seen how the other kids are much more likely to tell the other kid to "get away from me! You stink!"

My son NEVER had another child make a comment to him about stinking. When he pooped, I would take him to another room & change him; most kids were unaware that he was still in pullups. (Esp. when he got older, he would most often only poop when we were home. I imagine this is quite common.)

Originally Posted by artgoddess

Did you just say "Get a grip" to a mother at MDC who feels it's a good thing to follow a child's cues? I'm growing increasingly saddened by the number of mamas who are new here to MDC who promote ideas that are not AP. But you have been here a long time and I just don't get this coming from you.


"Get a grip."??? wow, just wow.

AMEN!!!: I am as shocked as you are.

Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies

Humans are born defecating and urinating. They are not born able to eat solids, that is why we have breastmilk.
That is also why it makes sense to follow the child's cues on self feeding.

I don't understand what your point is here- at all. Humans are born pooping & peeing, then they transition to the toilet. Humans are born unable to eat solids, so they nurse & then transition to solid food. I did not force my son to eat cereal at 3 months, & I did not force him to use the toilet at 2 years. :

Originally Posted by Pynki

I've known plenty of three year olds have 3 boys age 3 and older now, and as long as you are changing the child there isn't any wallowing in fecal matter. Most of the time, the other kids don't even notice. The MOMS notice before the kids do.

Totally agree!!

Originally Posted by savithny

I don't think anyone is proposing keeping children completely ignorant of the existence of the toilet and what goes on there. Nor are they saying that those who choose to do EC are somehow hung up or abusive or not GD - why the insistence on calling those who are working with their older children *less* GD? Not everyone *can* do EC, given the demands of the rest of modern life, and if those who don't do EC do whatever they *do* with at least care to the environmental consquences of their decisions and with respect and love towards their children, why does it matter to *you*, and why should there be so much squick-and-judgement?

[Venice Mamacita]

Originally Posted by Sylith

As the mother of an almost-4yo who still wears diapers about half the time, I can tell you I certainly feel judged and defensive when reading threads like this.

: Our son is 3y4m, and peed in his potty for the very first time on Saturday (hasn't done it since, either).

I sit here astounded at the judgment flying around this thread. Yes, it's true that in other cultures children PL earlier. I lived in China -- most "toilets" are merely holes in the floor, not the commodes we're accustomed to in the U.S. I never walked down the street there without seeing a child being held up so s/he could pee or poop into the gutter through a slit in her/his pants. Our at-home caregiver is Armenian, and she says they stop diapering children there at around a year old, mostly because no one can afford to keep buying diapers.

But none of this has anything to do with our son.

Yes, we've tried it all. Yes, I've read the books and scoured the MDC threads and the internet at large. Yes, he's fully capable of using the potty . . . and he just doesn't feel like it. I have full confidence that he will PL at some point before he goes to college. This doesn't make me a bad, ignorant or lazy mother . . . just like the fact that he still nurses doesn't make me a bad mother . . . and the fact that he still co-sleeps . . . and the fact that he's not circumcized or vaccinated . . .

. . . but MY mom sure thinks it does.