3 yo still in diapers, help me undestand - Page 4

[witchbaby]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

I think the lesson she was suggesting is the lesson that pooping yourself is inappropriate. Not a lesson we all teach. I do.

All of you who are critical of having expectations of one's children that they will start using the potty when they are able, examine if you don't have similar etiquette expectations for your child. E.g., you don't eat yogurt with your hands when you're old enough to use a spoon, you take off your muddy shoes before you track through the house. I'm not sure how different it is to decide that you want to channel your child to eliminate in potties or toilets.

We all pick our battles. I don't, for example, worry about water tracked out of the bathtub. Saves me energy not worrying about that. I did PL early. Not nighttime ... I wait for that to come on its own. Not naptime ... I wait for that to come on its own. But my kids PL'd earlier than any of their friends I can think of. Why? Took away the diapers, that's why. Bare bottom'd 'em. They weren't punished or ridiculed. They did have to help wipe up accidents. It's their eliminations, not mine. Pottying is a dignifying activity, not a degrading one. They were enabled.

So my son's diapers went away in June. He's now 19 months, and he probably has one accident a month in the house, and it's a little slower than I'd expect out of the house because his other significant people are less committed and let him use a pullup as a diaper out of the house. With me? He's good out of the house. He trusts I will get him to a potty when he asks for one.

I was in diapers as a three year old. My mom picked other battles. She just didn't want that one. To each her own.

I found that by doing it young, we had no battles. Diapers gone. If they're young enough, they don't look back so much.

i've tried that. we took away the diapers and gave k her potty and panties.
know what she did? held her urine so long she gave herself a uti complete with fever.

[Mylittlevowels]

Oh...I would LOVE to see some of you with the early trainers deal with my Super Poop Withholding DD You might just change your tune. We had her about 85% trained at one point. She both peed and pooped and was dry at night. Then she decided pooping hurts and started holding it (she's been doing this on and off since she started solid foods around 8 months old ) She'll hold for a week and get tummy cramps and what finally comes out plugs the toilet. There's no way to convince her that she's 3.5 and diapers are "inappropriate" Puh-lease. All I know is she poops more in the diapers than out and our pediatrician told us to BACK OFF. Just let her work it out in her own little mind.
I'm sorry that disgusts some of you :

[Momtwice]

None of my kids was ready at three. Pediatrician Did Not Care, thank goodness. I have read that the average age is OVER three, so perhaps the kids you have known just happen to be earlier than average. Whether your kids were EC or not they may have just happened to be on the early side.

If it makes you uncomfortable, I wonder if you were potty trained by parents who were stressed about it and it brings up these old feelings? That would be understandable, most people I meet are stressed about it and the previous generation or two were even more so. Our culture is so harsh about it!

[boobjuice]

Potty Power Video at Amazon Books

my boy was 3 when i trained him. he is also special needs. i didn't think anything about it until my daughter was born, she was so small and breast fed stools, i started getting grossed out changing his diapers, he was also the size of an average 5 yr old.

i got this video and several times a day we watched it TOGETHER, and we sang all the songs and danced TOGETHER, and within a week he was trained and we have had no accidents, yeah!

Good luck.

[artgoddess]

Originally Posted by joesmom

Originally Posted by artgoddess
I agree with the idea of asking the mother for underwear. Because then if it were my son in the care of a person who was not comfortable with my son being normal 3 year old I would want to know about it. Asking for the underwear will give the mother a heads up she should look for childcare elsewhere that is a better fit to her parenting ideals.

Glad I read this closely- I was thinking, you AGREE with asking the mom for underwear? I know I would not have been at all ok with someone else trying to potty train my son- he was adamant enough about it when I brought it up. To have had a caregiver try to override MY parenting would have been waaay over the line.

Yeah, I was mild in my response wasn't I?:


What I wanted to say was : What the F#@&!!! Did you seriously just suggest that this woman UNDERMINE another mother's parenting? If a mother here found out her daycare provider was using formula instead of expressed breastmilk to feed a child, there would be outrage on the board. What the hell???!!! It is completely normal for a 3 year old not to be interested in using a potty.

[northwoods1995]

Well this thread has been interesting to read.

My DS is 3 and he pees in the potty (and stays dry at night) but he will not poop in the potty. He asks for a diaper and he goes and then I help him change back to underwear. If I do not put a diaper on him he will not go. I don't want him to get to the point of being constipated and hurting to go b/c I think that will just prolong the cycle. I haven't pushed him b/c I thought that would do more harm than good.

I thought on this website, of all places, that I would be more likely to read about letting them do it in their own time and not forcing the issue.

I'm really surprised by some of the comments I've read on this thread. Like how it's inappropriate and possibly even parental neglect?!? to mention a couple.

-- I'm unaware that there is any research that shows that gentle later potty learning is in some way harmful in the long term?

I'm wondering about this too. Is there any research like this?

[fuller2]

Hmm. If a 3-year-old still in diapers makes me 'uncomfortable,' it's not because I had any major uptight PT issues myself (in fact, to this day my mother's voice often makes me relax and have to, um... )... I guess I am more interested in the subject anthropologically or historically. I think it is really interesting that the age at which a kid learns to poop wherever you're supposed to poop in that society really varies, even over the span of a few decades in the same society.

I should also say that though my son started to show interest in the potty at 18 months and we began PL, I didn't actually have time to REALLY ditch the diapers until about 3 months later when summer vacation started. My mom came to help, we took the pants off completely, let him pee/poop on the floor a few times (obviously not making a big deal out of it) and it only was about 2 weeks before he had it basically figured out. I do think that letting him pee in the yard was a major promotor (nothing like watering the flowers).

I also actually give him a snack and he sits and eats on the potty--he will sit there for like 45 minutes playing and eating--it's break time for me! And I let him use the potty pretty much wherever, like in the middle of the living room, his bedroom (I have 3 of them) along with the bathroom. He actually only uses the 'real' toilet maybe once or twice a day, though lately it's getting more frequent. (It's still pretty big for him, and twice now he's accidentally slammed the seat down on his penis---OUCH!)

I wonder if having him take the dog for walks with me all the time also helped. He was in the backpack/front pack for months watching the dog poop and pee outside and watching me pick up the poop (I live in the city right now). Being around animals has to help make stuff like that seem normal and not scary.

When you're sitting on the potty and your kid is watching, how do you know they know what you're doing? With dad it's obvious, but with mom?

Anyway: If someone feels defensive or embarassed because your kid is still in diapers I'd go on over to child-led weaning and take some cues from there. These kids will wean when they are ready, and your kids will use the potty when they are ready. Right now you have to respect the age they are at and how they see the world, and we all know how a 3-year-old can be. I guess I would say that maybe the AP way would be to integrate the diaper/potty issue into normal life as much as possible, to accept that this is what it is and not try to force any changes.

On the other hand, teaching is not the same as forcing, and I don't think it's wrong to keep on gently teaching what those body parts do and what the potty is for, or to remove the diapers even if the change is a little scary.

[pigpokey]

Originally Posted by witchbaby

i've tried that. we took away the diapers and gave k her potty and panties.
know what she did? held her urine so long she gave herself a uti complete with fever.

Please don't scare people First, you took her diapers away much later than I did with my kids. An older 2 year old is much different from a one year old in terms of pliability of habits and desire to control universe. Also, and probably more importantly to this situation, I'm not sure my kids *could* hold it 6 hours at the age when I took away their diapers. So the chances of them hurting themselves that way are almost nil.

I've heard some people say there's a window for doing it easily when they're one year olds and want to do everything like you, and then you might as well wait until three when they can be talked through it.

[Momtwice]

I've heard some people say there's a window for doing it easily when they're one year olds and want to do everything like you,

Never heard that and I don't believe it for a minute. Reminds me of myths about weaning.

And at the idea that my kids didn't potty learn until "late" because I forgot to teach them. I taught them! I had ds in pullups for months and months because I believed something Dr. Sears had written about when he would learn : Oh the landfill space I could have saved if I knew earlier to let him be himself.

[Leatherette]

Both of my kids, a boy and a girl, have been using the potty in the daytime for pee and poop since 2 and a half. But my daughter, almost three, still wears diapers at night. My son wore them at night until he was five. They were dry for the last 6 months of it (unless he was sick), but he insisted that he still needed them. He would say, " Mama, I'll be ready when I'm 6." But at five he decided he was ready.

They both learned within a week with few accidents, so I feel like it all worked out. I was glad I waited. I had several friends who tried earlier with girls, and the process was so drawn out and accident-ridden, and they were pulling their hair out. I did have a potty sitting around when they turned two, and offered it for a while before going into full-on potty learning.

L.

[katallen]

If it makes you uncomfortable (and it would me too) then consider talking to the mother about working on encouraging potty learning at home. It may be that she is assuming that he will get up one day and decide to go in the toilet without any encouragment or instruction and he may, but I think it is unlikely that he will learn to use a toilet without knowing what to do and getting encouragement and the reassurance that accidents are okay and everyone makes mistakes and he can try again next time. He will probably just get used to having pee and poop against his skin and by the time his parents get tired of changing him they will have to go through a lot of effort to teach him and you will be stuck changing huge very disgusting diapers.

If they won't teach him at home maybe you could teach him what to do at your house by letting him watch while the other children use the toilet, encouraging trying about every two hours and reading him a story while he is on the toilet. On top of this, try to make diaper changing time as quick and as boring as possible. There is a lot of attention given during a diaper change and if he learns to expect that while he is on the toilet he may decide that it is more fun to use a toilet.

[joesmom]

Originally Posted by witchbaby

i've tried that. we took away the diapers and gave k her potty and panties.
know what she did? held her urine so long she gave herself a uti complete with fever.

Originally Posted by Mylittlevowels

Oh...I would LOVE to see some of you with the early trainers deal with my Super Poop Withholding DD You might just change your tune. We had her about 85% trained at one point. She both peed and pooped and was dry at night. Then she decided pooping hurts and started holding it (she's been doing this on and off since she started solid foods around 8 months old ) She'll hold for a week and get tummy cramps and what finally comes out plugs the toilet. There's no way to convince her that she's 3.5 and diapers are "inappropriate" Puh-lease. All I know is she poops more in the diapers than out and our pediatrician told us to BACK OFF. Just let her work it out in her own little mind.
I'm sorry that disgusts some of you :

Thank you guys for posting. I know this happens a lot... I babysat a little girl who was rushed into training & she developed encopresis:

http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/WELCO...ncopresis.html

There was NO way I was going to risk doing that to my son... & I hope that no one else ever has to experience it; it was such a hard thing. She was in 1st grade when Joe was born & I quit babysitting her- I don't know when she overcame the problem, it was still going strong when I left.

Originally Posted by artgoddess

Yeah, I was mild in my response wasn't I?:

What I wanted to say was : What the F#@&!!! Did you seriously just suggest that this woman UNDERMINE another mother's parenting? If a mother here found out her daycare provider was using formula instead of expressed breastmilk to feed a child, there would be outrage on the board. What the hell???!!! It is completely normal for a 3 year old not to be interested in using a potty.

THAT'S more like it.

Originally Posted by fuller2

When you're sitting on the potty and your kid is watching, how do you know they know what you're doing? With dad it's obvious, but with mom?

Um... I told him. Mommy is peeing, Mommy is pooping now... he could hear the pee splash & he could see the poop in the toilet when I was finished.

Originally Posted by pigpokey

Please don't scare people First, you took her diapers away much later than I did with my kids. An older 2 year old is much different from a one year old in terms of pliability of habits and desire to control universe. Also, and probably more importantly to this situation, I'm not sure my kids *could* hold it 6 hours at the age when I took away their diapers. So the chances of them hurting themselves that way are almost nil.

I don't think ing at a mama whose child had a severe UTI & fever is appropriate at all. I don't think she is trying to 'scare people;' she is trying to make them aware of the very real possible consequence of forcing a child to train before he is ready. & I don't think a one year old is ever ready to train. (Unless EC has been used since birth, or you plan to do nothing for a month except follow your BABY around- training yourself.

Originally Posted by katallen

If it makes you uncomfortable (and it would me too) then consider talking to the mother about working on encouraging potty learning at home. It may be that she is assuming that he will get up one day and decide to go in the toilet without any encouragment or instruction and he may, but I think it is unlikely that he will learn to use a toilet without knowing what to do and getting encouragement and the reassurance that accidents are okay and everyone makes mistakes and he can try again next time. He will probably just get used to having pee and poop against his skin and by the time his parents get tired of changing him they will have to go through a lot of effort to teach him and you will be stuck changing huge very disgusting diapers.

If they won't teach him at home maybe you could teach him what to do at your house by letting him watch while the other children use the toilet, encouraging trying about every two hours and reading him a story while he is on the toilet. On top of this, try to make diaper changing time as quick and as boring as possible. There is a lot of attention given during a diaper change and if he learns to expect that while he is on the toilet he may decide that it is more fun to use a toilet.

Did you READ this thread? I thnk asking the mom for underwear is highly inappropriate. You are assuming that the child is not trained because of ignorance or laziness on the part of the parents. Like I said before, if someone had volunteered to "help" me potty train Joe, I would have been sooo angry. Our kids are only little for so long- yeah, I changed poopy diapers till he was almost five- if he lives to be 100 that is less than 1/20 of his life. Not a big deal to me. (& when I changed him, it was quick & matter of fact. I did not sing to him or give him candy when he pooped in his pullup. I just changed him & knew that one day he would be growing up & moving on & I thanked God for the privilege of changing him & helping him.

This thread...

[twilight girl]

Wow, I too am a little disconcerted at the judgement going on in this thread. Holy cow!

Every child is different. I think if the OP is uncomfortable with what's happening, the OP should politely decline to babysit this boy anymore.

I had DD in cloth, when she reached 2 I set a potty chair next to the big potty in the bathroom. She showed absolutely NO interest in the potty chair for a couple of months. One day, she up and decided to sit on it to pee. Once SHE demonstrated that she was ready to explore this option, then we commenced potty learning. Since when is it my decision to tell her when she is developmentally ready for something?

DD also self-weaned just before her 3rd birthday. MANY people in the US would vehemently disagree with me for letting her nurse so long. However, she told me when she was ready to cut that apron string.

Now at 4 and half, I have quite an independent, self-assured little girl. I try not to force things on her that she's not ready for. I don't want to set her up for failure, so instead I follow her cues. In our case, it works pretty well.

FWIW, DD got out of diapers probably a full year before my friend's son, who is 6 months older than DD.

Boys are generally slower than girls at this. And I don't think it is at all unusual for a 3 yo boy to still be in diapers.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by joesmom

Thank you guys for posting. I know this happens a lot... I babysat a little girl who was rushed into training & she developed encopresis:

http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/WELCO...ncopresis.html

There was NO way I was going to risk doing that to my son... & I hope that no one else ever has to experience it; it was such a hard thing. She was in 1st grade when Joe was born & I quit babysitting her- I don't know when she overcame the problem, it was still going strong when I left.



THAT'S more like it.



Um... I told him. Mommy is peeing, Mommy is pooping now... he could hear the pee splash & he could see the poop in the toilet when I was finished.



I don't think ing at a mama whose child had a severe UTI & fever is appropriate at all. I don't think she is trying to 'scare people;' she is trying to make them aware of the very real possible consequence of forcing a child to train before he is ready. & I don't think a one year old is ever ready to train. (Unless EC has been used since birth, or you plan to do nothing for a month except follow your BABY around- training yourself.



Did you READ this thread? I thnk asking the mom for underwear is highly inappropriate. You are assuming that the child is not trained because of ignorance or laziness on the part of the parents. Like I said before, if someone had volunteered to "help" me potty train Joe, I would have been sooo angry. Our kids are only little for so long- yeah, I changed poopy diapers till he was almost five- if he lives to be 100 that is less than 1/20 of his life. Not a big deal to me. (& when I changed him, it was quick & matter of fact. I did not sing to him or give him candy when he pooped in his pullup. I just changed him & knew that one day he would be growing up & moving on & I thanked God for the privilege of changing him & helping him.

This thread...

Great post.
Katallen- I am laughing because it is strange that anyone would think that diaper changing is fun (and therefore a kid might not learn to use the potty because getting diaper changed is so much better). What the heck? I'll remember that one. If my DS doesn't potty train by exactly 3, I'll blame myself for cooing at him during diaper changes.

[Cardinal]

Originally Posted by twilight girl

Every child is different. I think if the OP is uncomfortable with what's happening, the OP should politely decline to babysit this boy anymore.
.

Bingo.
\
If a caregiver watching my son was uncomfortable with me still breastfeeding him, I'd pull him out of there quickly. Same goes with original post. If you're uncomfortable changing his diaper, it's time you told the folks they need to get a new caregiver.

[liawbh]

Thanks for mentioning the encorpresis problem joesmom.
I've know two kids with this, and it's MISERABLE! One of these kids just now, at 12, has stopped having daily leakage. 12!!!
I've never met a child who was gently allowed to PL at his/her own pace who had poop issues that late.

THe thought of forcing a toddler to touch feces is just . . .ugh.

To anyone who is uncomfortable with helping older children with diapers or wiping: please don't be around them then. The damage done from picking up on your disgust and judgment will surely be far greater than any benefit gained from PLing early.

[pigpokey]

Originally Posted by joesmom

I don't think ing at a mama whose child had a severe UTI & fever is appropriate at all. I don't think she is trying to 'scare people;' she is trying to make them aware of the very real possible consequence of forcing a child to train before he is ready. & I don't think a one year old is ever ready to train. (Unless EC has been used since birth, or you plan to do nothing for a month except follow your BABY around- training yourself.

Sorry I wasn't trying to laugh at the infection, just keep from being too serious about my admonition not to scare people. Came out wrong.

Since most kids in the world "train" as one year olds (either transitioning from EC to independent pottying or transitioning from diapers to pottying), doesn't it seem likely that some one year olds are ready to be out of diapers? I'm not counting nights/naps although many people do, so I should be careful about that.

[Momtwice]

Since most kids in the world "train" as one year olds (either transitioning from EC to independent pottying or transitioning from diapers to pottying), doesn't it seem likely that some one year olds are ready to be out of diapers?

What do you mean, most kids in the world train as one year olds?

I'm sure kids who potty train at 12 months must exist somewhere, but I've never heard of a child who trained that young. I worked with children for years before I had my own. I know dozens and dozens of moms. My mom had lots of kids and also worked with kids in a paid capacity. My cousins have large families.

Granted, these are all children in the US. I've read that in the USA at least, the average age is more than three years old.

(The only EC'ers I know have infants.)

Are there some studies of other cultures that I'm not aware of?

[JBaxter]

All 3 of my boys were out of diapers by 2 1/2. Nathan my youngest was my only cloth diapered child and he took the longest. We did the naked method which is something you may want to discuss w/ his mother. My oldest slept dry by 18 months and was completely done at 25months. Pooping was an issue w/ 2 of my boys. I ( at the advice of my ped) gave them lots of prune juice 2 - 4 oz a day. There was no holding that. After 2 or 3 sucessful runs to the potty they were "unafraid" ( for lack of a better word). In my family it would be quite odd to be 3 and still in diapers. I have 5 nephews and all were out of diapers well before 3.

To OP maybe the mom needs some cooperations and suggestions. I have seen children be diaper free in daycare and still use diapers at home.

[chfriend]

Okay, I shouldn't weigh in 'cause dd1 used the potty b/f 2. dd2 is 26 months and uses the potty about 1/2 the time at home.

They did wake up one day and decide to use the potty. I don't teach pottying directly. Like most of the learning in our house, I supply the materials, they work out their own time table. I'm happy to provide modeling and assistance as requested.

It's poop and pee. It's not degrading. It's just poop and pee. No biggee. dd2 can use the potty if/when she wants. If she wants a diaper, that's fine too.

dd1 kinda felt ripped off when her friends got stickers and stuff for using the potty. I asked her if she wanted some stickers, 'cause I'd be happy to get them for her.

They didn't need to learn a lesson.

If a care provider bugged my kid to use a potty when I said they weren't ready, I'd ask them to stop. If they asked me for underwear when I provided diapers, I'd say no.

Some kids use the potty early, some later. I did daycare providing in my younger days so I've seen the range (and that was 20 or so years ago). People just have bad memories. There were lots and lots of kids in the 3-4 range who didn't potty at daycare.

They had to stay with the "little kids" until they learned to "motivate" them. Almost put one kid in the hospital with fecal withholding. Can't recommend it.