MDC going Google - Page 7

[Brigianna]

I am computer illiterate, so please explain--how are google ads any worse than other ads? Because google ads have more viruses? But if you're anti-advertising in general, an ad is an ad, right? If you look at Mothering Magazine, there are lots of ads for baby products and things. How is this any different?

[MelanieMC]

Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy

Well why not ask. Does MDC even remember what a COMMUNE is/was? A poll may have been nice, or even a heads up before the decision was made--kind of a "If we don't raise XYZ by October, we'll need to google-ize"--and I bet with DDDCs, memberships, and plain old donations we could have done it. But we weren't given the chance, and that's what a lot of us are cheesed at.

The cookbook! 'We're selling a cookbook to raise money'--well where is it?? Lots of people wanted to buy it.

There are plenty of people who are willing to 'step up to the plate' if there were more than one plate available, or had we known about the apparent fiscal crisis that is MDC.

exactly! If I knew that we needed money I would have given out many more ddddc's than I already have. I was one of those who was looking forward to the cookbook, but I haven't heard anything about it in a long time. Why didn't they post a message on the main page telling us money was needed? This didn't happen over night. I'm sure this has been planned for a while. Why not have a message saying we need x amount by x date and have ppl donate money or try to raise money by selling the cookbooks? I know mdc has a page on cafepress, they could have sold the cb and even more stuff there and advertised it on the forums for all to see. I just don't like the idea of the google ads. Honestly, they want us to report inappropriate ads - how will we have time for this? Almost all google adds I see are for things like formula or things that wouldn't be right here. I don't have time to report them.

[Nora'sMama]

CMM summed up my feelings perfectly.

I had no idea until tonight that paid memberships are available! I will go check it out and see what I can afford. But why oh why could that not be prominently displayed somewhere when you log in? I can't believe I've been a member for a year and a half and I had no clue that there was an option to pay for a 'deluxe' membership to help defray costs. I have given a few DDDDC's but probably not more than $10 worth and I would certainly pay a bit more than that for all of the valuable resources that are located here.

If I had seen a thread explaining MDC's financial challenges and asking for help, I'd certainly have done my part and so - I am convinced - would the MAJORITY of the regular posters here. We are here because this is a unique place on the internet, and no one wants to lose it.

I had noticed the lack of WAHM ads and it made me sad (although I do like that there's an ad for Tom Tomorrow's book! )...I used to click through all the time and even purchased a few things! I figured that they must be charging more for advertising and I don't blame them for doing so, but I do *not* click through to corporate sites. Just. Not. Interested. I'm probably not alone there among MDC members. So I'm wondering if Google Ads will even be a good money-maker for MDC.

IMVHO, this site should capitalize on the demographic it serves - crunchy people are not the best market for big corporations, especially if they have a choice (I'd always rather support a WAHM or small business), and so many of us would also value the opportunity to participate in a community-wide fundraising event rather than looking at even more advertising. It would help make this place more "real" and more vibrant, for sure, if we all got together and brainstormed solutions to keeping MDC financially afloat. COMMUNITY is built through shared sacrifice, no?

I also think they need to change the name of the site. This board is a lot of things but 'commune' it ain't. :

[nolonger]

Originally Posted by Kaitnbugsmom

Firefox- will it crash this antique pos? I used to have netscape but when I downloaded the latest version when I got back online after a year off, it crashed my puter...

I'm not sure how antique your POS is, but the little cutie patootie Dell Inspiron 3200 (Pentium II, 266 Mhz, 32 MB RAM) I was working on for a friend didn't have enough RAM for the most recent version of Firefox so I popped over here to pick up something a bit more chronologically appropriate.

Web pages load much, much faster now.

[Sharlla]

Doesn't affect me, I can just Adblock them

[Kajira]

Originally Posted by MiamiMami

This was obviously an issue that the admin didn't want to make public until now. I believe it is set in stone and it doesn't really matter what we think:

Pay this woman.
I'm not even commenting cause it makes no sense, what's done is done.
WAHM's were priced out the mdc ad market and we are getting goggle, I have my big girl panties on, I'm good

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by MiamiMami

This was obviously an issue that the admin didn't want to make public until now. I believe it is set in stone and it doesn't really matter what we think:

I'm afraid of this being true... But I pray it's not! :

Originally Posted by CookieMonsterMommy

Well why not ask. Does MDC even remember what a COMMUNE is/was? A poll may have been nice, or even a heads up before the decision was made--kind of a "If we don't raise XYZ by October, we'll need to google-ize"--and I bet with DDDCs, memberships, and plain old donations we could have done it. But we weren't given the chance, and that's what a lot of us are cheesed at.

The cookbook! 'We're selling a cookbook to raise money'--well where is it?? Lots of people wanted to buy it.

There are plenty of people who are willing to 'step up to the plate' if there were more than one plate available, or had we known about the apparent fiscal crisis that is MDC.

EXACTLY! I've never heard of this cookbook, and I've been a member for over 9 months. I think that's a great idea!! If someone else isn't willing to put it together, why not just do it anyway?

Originally Posted by Melaya

:

Like I said earlier, I've been here for three years and have never even heard of paid subscriptions until now. I know that mdc members would have donated enough money if we had been made aware of the financial crisis. I saw how people pulled together when witchvox and stripperweb had money problems. The members had that fixed in no time. There are more members here, plus I think we're all a bit closer and more dedicated to our space here. It just seems sad that yet another huge decision has been made, with out any kind of vote or approval of the majority. Just "here it is, like it or not". This place just doesn't feel at all like it used to. But I'll probably get in trouble for having said this much already....

I agree mama. These things need to be advertised more widely.. I was thinking about a "Buy 3, get one Free DDDDC" type thing. I'm sure mamas would go for it.

Originally Posted by emcare

Totally! I mean, this is the problem. We need some real honesty here, imo. Why can't they tell us what it costs to run this thing and then the community can figure out how to pay it. The folks here are really generous and I'm sure we would find a way without google.

So many people, myself included, just don't like the idea that Mothering Dot COMMUNE has decided to make this decision without consulting and chatting with it's members about it first.

Originally Posted by MelanieMC

exactly! If I knew that we needed money I would have given out many more ddddc's than I already have. I was one of those who was looking forward to the cookbook, but I haven't heard anything about it in a long time. Why didn't they post a message on the main page telling us money was needed? This didn't happen over night. I'm sure this has been planned for a while. Why not have a message saying we need x amount by x date and have ppl donate money or try to raise money by selling the cookbooks? I know mdc has a page on cafepress, they could have sold the cb and even more stuff there and advertised it on the forums for all to see. I just don't like the idea of the google ads. Honestly, they want us to report inappropriate ads - how will we have time for this? Almost all google adds I see are for things like formula or things that wouldn't be right here. I don't have time to report them.

I think that a Mothering Thermomitor would be great!! :

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

CMM summed up my feelings perfectly.

I had no idea until tonight that paid memberships are available! I will go check it out and see what I can afford. But why oh why could that not be prominently displayed somewhere when you log in? I can't believe I've been a member for a year and a half and I had no clue that there was an option to pay for a 'deluxe' membership to help defray costs. I have given a few DDDDC's but probably not more than $10 worth and I would certainly pay a bit more than that for all of the valuable resources that are located here.

I couldn't agree more Mama. I never knew it until I became a senior member, and was exploring that area of the Control Pannel.. And even then, I didn't know that MDC was in such Dire Straights.

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

If I had seen a thread explaining MDC's financial challenges and asking for help, I'd certainly have done my part and so - I am convinced - would the MAJORITY of the regular posters here. We are here because this is a unique place on the internet, and no one wants to lose it.

THANK YOU!! Exactly. The Mamas on here are no strangers to financial worries.

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

I had noticed the lack of WAHM ads and it made me sad (although I do like that there's an ad for Tom Tomorrow's book! )...I used to click through all the time and even purchased a few things! I figured that they must be charging more for advertising and I don't blame them for doing so, but I do *not* click through to corporate sites. Just. Not. Interested. I'm probably not alone there among MDC members. So I'm wondering if Google Ads will even be a good money-maker for MDC.

Me too. I always used the ads to find the toys, shoes, and clothes for Elias. I got my Hotsling through Mothering.. I never would have found them otherwise. I think that Mothering needs to advertise the memberships, merchendise, and Mothering Magazine subscriptions on the boards. Add another banner at the bottom of the page. I'd rather see WAHM and Crunchy ads than Google.

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

IMVHO, this site should capitalize on the demographic it serves - crunchy people are not the best market for big corporations, especially if they have a choice (I'd always rather support a WAHM or small business), and so many of us would also value the opportunity to participate in a community-wide fundraising event rather than looking at even more advertising. It would help make this place more "real" and more vibrant, for sure, if we all got together and brainstormed solutions to keeping MDC financially afloat. COMMUNITY is built through shared sacrifice, no?

I agree again!! You're exactly right Mama.. And with so many diverse people here, I know that we could do something amazing.

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

I also think they need to change the name of the site. This board is a lot of things but 'commune' it ain't. :

[LadyMarmalade]

The thing which bothered me is that we have to click on the ad in order to get the address to report it. It seems a bit underhanded.

Other than that, I like the idea of buying 3 DDDDCs and getting 1 free.

Or I could go and change my username once a week for the next month

I would have liked to have some input on this issue - we were invited to have a say in the new UA but it seems as though the new UA was geared for the google ads ... it would have made much more sense if we'd known about it beforehand.

I can't help but think the google ad thing goes against what MDC stands for, in quite a few ways

Are the admins willing to try other options before we go down that road? Please?

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by LadyMarmalade

The thing which bothered me is that we have to click on the ad in order to get the address to report it. It seems a bit underhanded.

Other than that, I like the idea of buying 3 DDDDCs and getting 1 free.

Or I could go and change my username once a week for the next month

I would have liked to have some input on this issue - we were invited to have a say in the new UA but it seems as though the new UA was geared for the google ads ... it would have made much more sense if we'd known about it beforehand.

I can't help but think the google ad thing goes against what MDC stands for, in quite a few ways

Are the admins willing to try other options before we go down that road? Please?

Pleeeeeeeeeeeease??!

*grovels and begs* Plllllllleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaassseeeeeeee???????????

[Melda]

Im ok with that ... Did you know that the creators of google were former Montessori students and credit their sucess to their Montessori education background? So they are a lil crunchy right ??? hehe ...

http://www.montessori.org/enews/barbara_walters.html

[**guest**]

Has anyone brought this thread to the admin's attention? Maybe they truly haven't seen it. I would love some of their input.

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by Melda

Im ok with that ... Did you know that the creators of google were former Montessori students and credit their sucess to their Montessori education background? So they are a lil crunchy right ??? hehe ...

http://www.montessori.org/enews/barbara_walters.html

Yeah, Google isn't as bad as the other web corporations.. But I still would rather support WAHM's and keep our community less commercial. I use Gmail and LOVE it. It's the best Email I've ever used, hands down.

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by OdeToJoy

Has anyone brought this thread to the admin's attention? Maybe they truly haven't seen it. I would love some of their input.

I started a thread in Questions and Sudjestions about it. So, either way, one of the Mods will see it.

[Kristine233]

What it comes down to is you'll have ads popping up on google relating to any keyword thats discussed. They tried it at TBW. If you are discussing BF vs Formula, formula ads may pop up. Then you get random gibberish ads as well.

If everyone starts using Firefox to just block the ads they aren't going to make MDC money anyways and it would be a waste. When you advertise on google you can target a specific site as well so the WAHMs coudl target MDC as their advertising but if the ads are looked down apon its not going to help the WAHMs anyways. And if people click to only raise funds for MDC and not actually to buy things or look at the site then its a waste of money as well for the advertiser. (Who pay anywhere from .10 - $1.00+ per click depending on what their bid was set at.)

Personally I see google ads everywhere and don't even notice them anymore, I think alot of people have become immune to them. So will they really make money for MDC?

I think they could be more creative in the search to raise funds. I'll bet this was just the "easiest" method to try.

[Greenie]

Originally Posted by Kristine233

What it comes down to is you'll have ads popping up on google relating to any keyword thats discussed. They tried it at TBW. If you are discussing BF vs Formula, formula ads may pop up. Then you get random gibberish ads as well.

If everyone starts using Firefox to just block the ads they aren't going to make MDC money anyways and it would be a waste. When you advertise on google you can target a specific site as well so the WAHMs coudl target MDC as their advertising but if the ads are looked down apon its not going to help the WAHMs anyways. And if people click to only raise funds for MDC and not actually to buy things or look at the site then its a waste of money as well for the advertiser. (Who pay anywhere from .10 - $1.00+ per click depending on what their bid was set at.)

Personally I see google ads everywhere and don't even notice them anymore, I think alot of people have become immune to them. So will they really make money for MDC?

I think they could be more creative in the search to raise funds. I'll bet this was just the "easiest" method to try.

I didn't even think of it like that. Great point!

[Cynthia Mosher]

If you want admin input you should start a post in Questions and Suggestions. That's where this thread should have been placed.

Greenie, your thread just points me to this one. That's not really a question or a suggestion so please post a new thread to Q&S asking your specific question or making your specific suggestion.

Moving this to Q&S.

[Cynthia Mosher]

I wonder if this is why there is a new MDC User Agreement.

It is entirely unrelated. The decision to revise the User Agreement and ask for community input about it preceded the decision to place Google ads.

Why aren't the ad rates raised? I mean, it's normal to pay more for an ad that will be seen more, right?

They have been raised, we have lost our advertising base of WAHMs due to the increase in fees. So we are taking back WAHM advertising under MDC's umbrella (which means lower rates for them again) and are placing Google ads rather than the previous right column ads we had.


i just paid for an account, i would have paid the extra couple of dollars to remove the adds had I known they were going to go google.

You can still do that by paying the extra amount. We will upgrade subscriptions upon request, once things are in place.


About Google related viruses and spyware

If this is true then it really should not be a problem for anyone if they do not click on the ads. Google cannot embed viruses and spyware into MDC through the ad code we place to display the ads. This is probably something that should be taken to Google as a complaint. If it is not true - if it is not something that you can trace and pinpoint exactly as a Google action - then your statement is edging on defamation so please be careful of making such statements, for your personal interest and that of Mothering. Google has policies in place about spyware and deceptive software practices. Please review that for more information: http://www.google.com/corporate/soft...rinciples.html


Guess that's why the new proposed UA included ISP based email addresses only to register... so google can track ad clicks.

Nope. Has nothing at all to do with it. We have requested ISP based emails for many years now. That is not a new thing in the UA. It is due to the huge volume of delivery failures we get from people using free email accounts that have spam blocking set so strictly their account will not accept MDC system emails. But we do not actively monitor that or refuse anyone membership. it is simply stated in the UA because we want an ISP based email address. If you do not register with one then we can refuse to troubleshoot any issues you may have that are related to it and also deny you features such as email notifications.


I would love to know what it costs to run the board and how much money the google thing will bring in so we can try to brainstorm alternatives.

It have no right to share costs and revenue with you. That is Mothering business that you would have to request from the Mothering office. But feel free to brainstorm alternatives for fundraising if you wish to not see ads here, google or otherwise. Greenie started a thread in Q&S for that purpose.


And think about it, there are far less WAHM banner advertisers now. Most of us simply can't afford to advertise at MDC anymore. So they have to make us for that somewhere. Just peek into the WAHMwell and do a serach for cost of advertising.

That's very true. Though WAHMs were offered pricing very much lower than the big businesses that the Mothering Advertising documents list, advertising has dropped tremendously. Even the banners you see up top at MDC, quite a few are complementary ads.


Paid memberships exclude people like myself. Due to no fault of my own my paypal account has been frozen.

We can certainly work something out if you can make payment some other way.


If advertising were more affordable for WAHMs I bet that would eliminate teh need for Google. And WAHMs are more than happy to support MDC (just not at $500 + a month)

Ads for WAHMs at MDC are not $500 a month. They never have been. Just want that clarified. If anyone wants more information on WAHM advertising they can contact me. But in reality, if we go back to the ad pricing and flow of ads that we previously had, the revenue is still insufficient to cover MDC operating expenses.


I agree that Google might alienate more members, and Google (although I love them) isn't exactly NFL. I mean, we're bound to get tons of VERY NON-AP ads and seeing Enfamil advertise on Mothering will be too much. I think that if we pull together we'll be able to make it without inviting corporate america in...


Acknowledged. And we have asked for the support and assistance of the community to control this and help keep out such ads.


I'm a little bitter about the way we have been told to report the offending ads: send the url to an address, which means we have to click on the ad, copy the url, and send it to mdc. If it offends me, I'm not exactly in line to click on it.

You don't HAVE to report anything. We are requesting help. That's all. And the direction to click is only to help us get an exact ad to report. A description or company name may make it more difficult to track and report it and get filtered out. But you can do that if you wish and not click at all. In fact, maybe it would be better for us to ask that you report the ad instead of click, considering the insinuations posted that we have requested that to get the money from your click (and that's a very unkind accusation that noone here deserves and is the sort of thing that tears down sincere dialogue rather than promotes it). But there will need to be some understanding that such a report of an ad's wording (they will be text ads, not images) may not give us the exact info needed to get that ad pulled asap. That was the only reason behind suggesting you click to get the URL. We will be placing filters to not permit certain ads from the start. But as I understand it, it is a process that must be worked at and eventually will work well at keeping out ads we don't want to host. We, as a mod and admin team, will be monitoring the ads too and getting those removed that are inappropriate. We never intended to place th burden of reporting as a responsibility of the community. We're just asking for your help. If you can't or don't want to give it, that's fine.


eta: I read it as they are going to give the right side bar a whirl......and see.....I wonder if they signed off yet? and for how long a period, if so...

Yes, we decided to give it a whirl. There is no "signing off" commitment. We are not under a contract with Google to allow them to place ads. We can place them if we wish or not if we decide to discontinue.


Why aren't old user accounts (very old inactive ones that have zero posts from a year or so ago) that take up server space? Some of them have never posted or have 1 post and that's it.

Old user accounts are really not a server space issue nor do they cost us money that we need to be increasing revenue for. It is the sheer size of our active community and the number of guests that are visiting, reading, and learning every day. And joining in large numbers daily. We need server power to handle that traffic (and we have three servers now, needed to do so and considering a fourth), bandwidth space to deliver the goods, administration and moderation to allow it to flow smoothly and address issues. We also want to be able to offer other things for our community. It costs, plain and simple. This is not a greed issue. It is one of covering costs and then trying to get a bit of extra to allow us to do more which is really just putting the money back into the boards.


Well why not ask. Does MDC even remember what a COMMUNE is/was? A poll may have been nice, or even a heads up before the decision was made--kind of a "If we don't raise XYZ by October, we'll need to google-ize"--and I bet with DDDCs, memberships, and plain old donations we could have done it. But we weren't given the chance, and that's what a lot of us are cheesed at. The cookbook! 'We're selling a cookbook to raise money'--well where is it?? Lots of people wanted to buy it. There are plenty of people who are willing to 'step up to the plate' if there were more than one plate available, or had we known about the apparent fiscal crisis that is MDC.

I guess because we have tried several things over the years and they were tons of work with little revenue seen as a result. We have asked and have tried out suggestions. The results were encouraging that the community will come together to try to help but the bottom line of revenue created through it all was quite sobering. The specific projects you suggest/question will be discussed in the other thread in Q&S. If everyone is really geared to creating the revenue through community effort and this is demonstrated and sustained, then we will most certainly remove Google ads. And we an discuss that in that thread.


Personally I see google ads everywhere and don't even notice them anymore, I think alot of people have become immune to them. So will they really make money for MDC?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But we do want to give it a try. One of our members here at MDC recommends it highly, saying her husband earns $5000 a month on his site through his Google ads. That is considerable and would go a long way toward covering MDC costs.

If you have anything further to post about fundraising ideas, please do so in this thread rather than here.


We have become used to member backlash about things that are disliked by some. It's a part of administrating and moderating I suppose and certainly with a community this size it can be expected. But the unkind remarks and accusations really hurt and are not something that we would permit members to state about members. So please respect that all of us at Mothering do love this community as much as you do, want what's best for it, are not evil, greedy, or corporate business huggers, are hurt by such comments and that it really does nothing to further your opinion about this issue and does more to create negativity and bad feelings. Post with constructive suggestion and concern and not attack with insinuation and assumption. If you cannot do so then you will not be permitted to participate in this discussion.

[Kristine233]

Cynthia, could you clarify what the WAHM banner pricing actually is please? (not remnant spots, but actual banner packages) Most of us read your comments in the original thread in WAHMwell from when the changes were made to the pricing. Then above you said its not $500 a month. I think there may be some misunderstandings.

You said:

If you want a specified week or month run then you will need to pay the small business rate of $5 per thousand impressions to reserve that specified time. A top banner ad gets around 80,000 to 100,000 impressions a month, sometimes more. That would put the ad cost at $500 at the small business price. Small business includes WAH based businesses as well as small business owners that work out of their home running their business. I don't know the details in classifying a business as "small". You can get that information from [e-mail] if you need specifics.

From this thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=advertise

If you could clear that up I'm sure the WAHMs would totally appreciate it! Thank you.

[JeDeeLenae]

Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher

I'm a little bitter about the way we have been told to report the offending ads: send the url to an address, which means we have to click on the ad, copy the url, and send it to mdc. If it offends me, I'm not exactly in line to click on it.[/b]

You don't HAVE to report anything. We are requesting help. That's all. And the direction to click is only to help us get an exact ad to report. A description or company name may make it more difficult to track and report it and get filtered out. But you can do that if you wish and not click at all. In fact, maybe it would be better for us to ask that you report the ad instead of click, considering the insinuations posted that we have requested that to get the money from your click (and that's a very unkind accusation that noone here deserves and is the sort of thing that tears down sincere dialogue rather than promotes it). But there will need to be some understanding that such a report of an ad's wording (they will be text ads, not images) may not give us the exact info needed to get that ad pulled asap. That was the only reason behind suggesting you click to get the URL. We will be placing filters to not permit certain ads from the start. But as I understand it, it is a process that must be worked at and eventually will work well at keeping out ads we don't want to host. We, as a mod and admin team, will be monitoring the ads too and getting those removed that are inappropriate. We never intended to place th burden of reporting as a responsibility of the community. We're just asking for your help. If you can't or don't want to give it, that's fine.

I just wanted to add that if you right click on a link, you can do a "copy shortcut" and then paste it into the email. You won't be directed to the site or anything.

[Cynthia Mosher]

It's all changing so there's nothing to explain right now that will be of any use. But as far as pricing it will probably go back to what it used to be, or pretty close to it, for WAHMs.