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How long would you labor.....? - Page 3

post #41 of 62
I have had 6 home births, with the labor of my 1st 34 hours, and hard, and the labor of my 6th 1 hour, and so easy. For the last, the midwife didn't make it on time, and I caught the baby with the help of my friend, while I was standing above the toilet! That was great!
After reading your comments, Freebirth, and what it seems like some of these experienced birthing mothers are trying to say, is that it is SO important not to be self-righteous in these kinds of things. I am 29 right now, and I know that 10 years ago or so I also felt very strongly about things such as homebirth, breastfeeding, nutrition, etc. I would come across very strong, like "this is the way you should do it, and if you don't..." In the last few years, however, I have learned that people are all very different. Some are more fearful than others, and they need lots of help and encouragement. Some people see things differently, and haven't learned to trust their bodies as much as others. Some people have been raised in less affectionate environments and are not as comfortable with being natural. What I am trying to say, is that it is extremely important to handle all of these situations with love, which is the most important thing in the universe! We are all taught what we need to learn in this life, and I have been on the other side of things that previously I was very judgemental about many times. I hope I learn my lesson! So, just remember to encourage others and give support and lots of love, 'cause that's what everyone needs.
post #42 of 62
Well said ForestMother, love and support is where it's at. I also have very strong views on women's lives and childbirth, after 36 hours I was transferred against my wishes from my hb to birth my first child in hospital with no complications but shoved full of drugs and degrading routine procedures. I uc'd my 2nd and 3rd babies and had a completely different experience, I could have uc'd my first but society would not let me,nor my then partner. I would labour as long as it takes but would reluctantly transfer if I felt there was need, I would prefer to have a reasonable mw actually if things didn't go to plan. I read lots of positive birthing books as a teenager(preparing myself)but I also wanted to be a hands-off helper at births, I felt and still do feel very strongly that women are being abused during birth. I read the medical stuff they trained midwives with, it was so degrading and seemed quite dangerous some of the practices. It can feel like being a failure if you are transferred, which is rubbish cos you still usually have to give birth, I don't think natural cb is some sort of idealistic thing and if you don't live up to it you can't be in the club or you have failed, I just feel it is attainable and prefferable for women to give birth in a natural, loving,empowered environment, sadly hospital doesn't meet that criteria but if you gotta go you gotta go. We require even greater levels of autonomy in hospital and it just is not an easy place to be, I wish that would change,so that in the event of needing their assistance(not abuse) then the experience would be far better for all women who go.
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by forestmother View Post
After reading your comments, Freebirth, and what it seems like some of these experienced birthing mothers are trying to say, is that it is SO important not to be self-righteous in these kinds of things. I am 29 right now, and I know that 10 years ago or so I also felt very strongly about things such as homebirth, breastfeeding, nutrition, etc. I would come across very strong, like "this is the way you should do it, and if you don't..." In the last few years, however, I have learned that people are all very different. Some are more fearful than others, and they need lots of help and encouragement. Some people see things differently, and haven't learned to trust their bodies as much as others. Some people have been raised in less affectionate environments and are not as comfortable with being natural. What I am trying to say, is that it is extremely important to handle all of these situations with love, which is the most important thing in the universe! We are all taught what we need to learn in this life, and I have been on the other side of things that previously I was very judgemental about many times. I hope I learn my lesson! So, just remember to encourage others and give support and lots of love, 'cause that's what everyone needs.
Thank you forestmother for saying all this because its something I want to articulate too. Freebrith2, I am sorry if I seem like I am picking on you because it really isn't intentional. You do come off very strong but you are only one of many women whose judgementalism has become intolerable to me.

I am the first to admit I have been an extremely judgemental person in the past but every day I am learning humility, and am very grateful for it. I guess I just feel that I am on the other side of the (birth) fence now and am very frustrated to continue to be judged when I have already moved onto another perspective.

I think it is time I remove myself from this discussion in order to focus on what it is I should be doing (rather than spending my spare and sometimes not-so-spare moments here)--and that is mothering my children.

Warmest wishes to you all,

Terra
post #44 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by super kitty View Post
Agreed but "FAR" would be the key word here and perhaps even understated.

Agreed.

-Angela
post #45 of 62
Thread Starter 
No, I would not see myself as a failure. I just don't want abunch of people touching and staring at my vagina. Which is why I'am considering adoption. There is way toooooooo mank kids in this world. I would hate to have to add more to it and make other kids starve. The feelings of something wrong is kinda iffy. It's like saying oh I feel something wrong like it's a breech oh well we better go to the hospital. We all know that breech births can be handled at home, except for angela jolie. I understand if it's placenta previa. The minute someone feels there is something wrong, they hand over their body to someone else without asking their body how to birth this child. The feelings of something wrong is kinda of iffy.
post #46 of 62
Well, sure it is iffy! Of course it is! This is life and we have REAL bodies, things change constantly and we don't have all the answers. So, that is why women should work through fears as best they can and then use their intuition to help guide them. Even a woman with placenta previa has to trust her intuition that something is wrong in order to get help, correct? Sure, there would be some bleeding, which may set off the feeling that something is wrong, but then she needs to follow that feeling up. And I don't think it is best if every woman waits until someone's life is in danger before she gets help, if she feels that she needs it. Again, I think the goal is to have a healthy mom and baby, so if mom suddenly feels that they will end up healthier if they get outside help, then that is what she should do!

It shouldn't be about what you think is the right call for the family as you are not the one who has to live with the decisions they make (good, bad, and otherwise). It should be about women feeling they made the best decisions for themselves and their families and feeling at peace with whatever it is they have decided.
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebirth2 View Post
The minute someone feels there is something wrong, they hand over their body to someone else without asking their body how to birth this child. The feelings of something wrong is kinda of iffy.
The feeling of fear of losing YOUR BABY that YOUR BODY has grown and cared for for 9 months is not "iffy" and is not something you will ever understand until you have carried a child to term youself. The fear of YOUR CHILD DYING is something so powerful that no mother here can describe it for you and have you even come close to understanding.
Stop telling other women how you think they SHOULD FEEL. Feelings are always real and valid, no matter where they stem from.
Having never been there youself, I dont know how you feel you have a right to even continue in this conversation with your judgemental comments.
post #48 of 62
I actually think that if I need to transfer the feeling I get in my gut will be more than iffy. I trust my body to let me know when something is wrong enough to warrent a trip to the hospital. And I feel strongly about avoiding the hospital and know myself well enough to know I won't transfer for iffy.

When it is an emergency you aren't really handing yourself over to the medical establishment you are utilizing the medical establishment for what it should be for. I doubt many women on here head to the hosptial w/o first listening to what their body is telling them, that's a pretty big assumption.
post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrea View Post
The feeling of fear of losing YOUR BABY that YOUR BODY has grown and cared for for 9 months is not "iffy" and is not something you will ever understand until you have carried a child to term youself. The fear of YOUR CHILD DYING is something so powerful that no mother here can describe it for you and have you even come close to understanding.
YES!! Also now that I have children I am not willing to F around with leaving them motherless. We are talking about powerful instincts here.
post #50 of 62
freebirth2:

you still need to get councelling regarding your traumatic experience.

it is important to note that there are many women who are not adverse to medical care nor that medical care is per se abusive or problematic. And when it is necessary, then it is an incredibly valuable resource.

also, i believe that most things can be handled at home, alone, but require preparation (both intuitive and intellectual).

in my experience, it can take years for a person to move from a 'typical, mainstream' life to one that is intuitive and self-reflective. I teach yoga and many of my students have YEARS of emotional, physical, and social patterning that takes years of practice in techniques of awareness and mindfulness to even begin to work with. A woman who is 'typical, mainstream' who discovers UC during her pregnancy as a birth option, typically doesn't have the means or experience to move toward the intuitive space necessary to function as the story that you shared.

that takes a lot more effort than learning about the biological elements of birth--something any woman can learn in about a few months (the basics) and will learn more of through experience. And a lot of women don't want to put even that much effort into their births because of other elements in their lives that they're dealing with such as familial or social issues, their own 'programmed' fears and anxieties, or even other health issues that need to be managed during pregnancy.

while i believe that everything is available to every woman at all times, in terms of deep spiritual knowing and intuition, it often takes a good deal of timie to develop our ability to hear and follow these aspects.

most of us here are already on the path of intuitive process and self-reflective process. but many people aren't there yet.

for this, i encourage 'baby steps' which is both a process of encouragement for what they are doing, without focusing on what they're not, plus ways of expanding awareness in what they are doing so that that process can be more empowered and will build into empowerment in other places.

i've seen dramatic changes within my community from this sort of work--and this change will change culture as a whole over time.

and finally, i like the idea of adoption too. but, i also would love to experience pregnancy and birth. So, perhaps i will do both. I have no qualms with medical interventions should they be necessary, but i firmly believe that they will not be. I will go so far as to say that i know (in the deepest, knowing sense) that they will not be necessary.

this is that flip side of intuition--that faith. You seem to have lost some of that in your fear and anger.
post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebirth2 View Post
No, I would not see myself as a failure. I just don't want abunch of people touching and staring at my vagina. Which is why I'am considering adoption.
While adoption is a good optional route, it's too bad your coming to it for fear of complications taking you to the hospital that would come from giving birth. Complications or emergencies are so rare!
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post

you still need to get councelling regarding your traumatic experience.
I cannot agree with this enough!
PTSD is a very serious disorder that if left untreated can lead to serious problems down the track. There are some awesome councillors out there that deal with PTSD directly as well as being awesome in other areas... I am sure there are many self help websites and books that can be used to educate and work towards getting better if seeing another person is not an option.
post #53 of 62
Thread Starter 
Look Zoebird thats cool if you are fine with pelvic exams and pap smear's, but that is not my choice thats yours. I don't believe being a women is a disease. Long before I had that pelvic exam, and pap smear I hated the fact that during birth I would have my privates touched and stared at. When I found out about c-sections I knew that is what I wanted, so I could avoid those things. It was not the experince I had at 15 that made me the way I am. I have always been this way. Hating the fact that people could and would do these things to me in a hospital.No I was not sexually abused as a child, well not in this life. Maybe in a past life. So stop thinking that I need help. This is the way I'am. I prefer to keep my modesty and privacy, and not allow my body to become this show of sexual humiliation. If I can't birth my child vaginally at home. I will go to a hospital for a c-section i.e placenta previa.
post #54 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebirth2 View Post
Look Zoebird thats cool if you are fine with pelvic exams and pap smear's, but that is not my choice thats yours. I don't believe being a women is a disease. Long before I had that pelvic exam, and pap smear I hated the fact that during birth I would have my privates touched and stared at. When I found out about c-sections I knew that is what I wanted, so I could avoid those things. It was not the experince I had at 15 that made me the way I am. I have always been this way. Hating the fact that people could and would do these things to me in a hospital.No I was not sexually abused as a child, well not in this life. Maybe in a past life. So stop thinking that I need help. This is the way I'am. I prefer to keep my modesty and privacy, and not allow my body to become this show of sexual humiliation. If I can't birth my child vaginally at home. I will go to a hospital for a c-section i.e placenta previa.

As has been explained to you on other threads- in a c-section everyone is going to see and touch everything, just as with a vaginal birth.

And if you have this much illogical fear about it, you DO need some therapy.

-Angela
post #55 of 62
I will not go the hospital unless I or my child is dying no matter how long my labor is. I had prodromal labor for 3 days with my last but once true labor kicked in, I had the energy I needed to give birth.
post #56 of 62
Freebirth, I think everyone is trying to say--as we grow and have different life experiences, our outlooks may shift or even change completely.

I had no idea what to expect before becoming a mother. I thought for sure that I'd be this kind of mother or that kind of mother. Once I had my son, though, things changed. I was changed. In fact, I continue to change every day as my son also grows and changes.

I know I've had many strongly held beliefs in my lifetime that perhaps I don't have anymore. Sometimes my beliefs have shifted because of experiences I've had that have forced me to re-evaluate myself, sometimes in a painful way. I have been humbled a GREAT deal through parenting my son. It is not always easy to accept humility with grace.

I would venture a guess that many, many mothers experience this same process through motherhood.

Best wishes for your future! I hope that you are able to embrace the learning process that inevitably occurs once we open ourselves up to it.
post #57 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by frontierpsych View Post
The only reason I would transfer due to a prolonged labour is if I was so exhausted I couldn't function and could not fall asleep between ctx... It would have to be really bad though, and it isn't something I forsee happening, but if my labour was that long and I was unable to sleep at all you'd think the sleep deprivation itself would cause complications. I'm willing to stay at home through a lot of things, and I will just have to trust my instincts as to whether or not to transfer.
That is essentially why my planned UBA2C turned into a hospital birth. I had had prodromal labor for about a week before it kicked into full-blown labor. I was awake 30 hours straight with horrible back labor--seriously the most painful thing I have ever experienced in my life, a hundred times worse than the induction with my first daughter. I made the decision to go in to the hospital shortly after a lovely, pastoral little episode of Linda standing in front of me bawling to be nursed that segued into an equally idyllic time of me bawling in pain while she nursed.

Was it a true emergency? Nope. No one would have died had I stayed home, but I was worn out physically and emotionally after all the time of laboring (even the prodromal stuff was excruciating).

Of course, the decision to go in meant that I left in the dust my dreams of a 100% natural birth...But in all honesty I went to the hospital in search of painkillers & Pitocin, because I knew that's what would get my baby born while my sanity was still intact. Had I stuck it out, I'd probably not now have a scar on my hoo-ha (no cut, but I tore badly), nor would I have had the slight bleeding issue afterwards--at least, I hope not--because both of those issues were caused by medical interventions. Overall, though, I'm quite happy with the way things turned out, even if it did mean I missed out on taking the girls trick-or-treating.

FWIW, the audience between my legs during my vaginal birth was a hell of a lot less invasive and objectifying than the audience in the OR as several pieces of my anatomy that shouldn't ever see the light of day were laid upon my abdomen.
post #58 of 62
You know, when I was giving birth in the hospital (very preterm baby, but pain-drug-free vaginal birth), I really didn't notice the other people in the room. There were alot, since my baby was 29 weeks and needed a NICU team ready. I can't even tell you much about what the doctor looked like or the nurse - I couldn't pick them out of a lineup to save my life. I only had ONE dilation check the entire labor, and that was at the end when I was in transition, and honestly, it wasn't at all like a pap smear. I barely noticed it, as I was concentrating on getting through transition. I can't even remember what the dilation check felt like. I just know it was done (and the nurse said "His head is RIGHT THERE!", and they rushed me to LDR - they thought I'd be a while because I was a first time mom ). I couldn't tell you how many people were in the room. During pushing, I didn't really care who was at my crotch. It just wasn't even on my mind. Again, nothing like a pap smear. What *was* uncomfortable was when they were stitching me up afterwards (I had a 1st degree tear - no epi). That felt more like a pap smear, except it took alot longer. That tear wouldn't have occurred if I'd listened to my body, btw - I followed their stupid directed pushing. I wasn't educated enough about hospital births since I wasn't planning one.

Anyway, I know some women here have felt extreme discomfort about dilation checks during labor/birth, so I'm not saying that YOU won't feel that. But I'm just saying that for ME, it really was nothing like a pap smear. My mind was elsewhere, and I really wasn't fully aware of what was going on around me - I was concentrating on getting that baby out and praying that he'd be breathing (which he was ).

Now for this birth, I don't plan to have dilation checks. I see an OB (as a just-in-case measure, so if I have another preemie, I've got a wonderful, openminded, NCB-friendly doctor instead of whoever is assigned to me), and I won't be allowing dilation checks at the end of pregnancy. During birth, I don't plan to do any dilation checks on myself or have anyone else do them.

But... if it came down to 1 dilation check or a C-section, I'd absolutely choose the dilation check. The thought of a C-section scares me to death, particularly the being-awake-during-surgery part, as I've had toe surgery with a local anesthetic, and that was the worst pain I've ever experienced (just the anesthetic going in!), and the whole experience really freaked me out. Childbirth with a million people staring at my crotch was much better!

Anyway, when you haven't had a baby, it really is hard to imagine what you're going to think or feel when you do have that baby. I was terrified of hospitals and really wanted to stay out of one. I'd done so much reading, including lots of UC stories , that I knew I really didn't want to be at the hospital. But... my baby wanted to come early, and it was not safe (for HIM) to deliver at home. I went to the hospital, and while it wasn't a picnic, it also wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. Even the food was better than expected. I actually really liked the chicken tenders they served a couple times. : And now that I'm more educated AND have an open minded doctor in my corner, if I needed a hospital again, I know I could have a really nice birth and be very happy with the experience. But you should absolutely listen to your body about whether you need to be at the hospital, and don't let fear of the hospital cloud your intuition about what's going on with your body. There are times that a hospital and the interventions there are really useful, even in a non-emergency event. If you're well educated, you can have a good hospital birth. Home is better, but sometimes our bodies don't read the books about how to have a normal delivery. My own skipped that part about full term being 37+ weeks.
post #59 of 62
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post #60 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagesgirl View Post
That is essentially why my planned UBA2C turned into a hospital birth. I had had prodromal labor for about a week before it kicked into full-blown labor. I was awake 30 hours straight with horrible back labor--seriously the most painful thing I have ever experienced in my life, a hundred times worse than the induction with my first daughter. I made the decision to go in to the hospital shortly after a lovely, pastoral little episode of Linda standing in front of me bawling to be nursed that segued into an equally idyllic time of me bawling in pain while she nursed.

Was it a true emergency? Nope. No one would have died had I stayed home, but I was worn out physically and emotionally after all the time of laboring (even the prodromal stuff was excruciating).

Of course, the decision to go in meant that I left in the dust my dreams of a 100% natural birth...But in all honesty I went to the hospital in search of painkillers & Pitocin, because I knew that's what would get my baby born while my sanity was still intact. Had I stuck it out, I'd probably not now have a scar on my hoo-ha (no cut, but I tore badly), nor would I have had the slight bleeding issue afterwards--at least, I hope not--because both of those issues were caused by medical interventions. Overall, though, I'm quite happy with the way things turned out, even if it did mean I missed out on taking the girls trick-or-treating.

FWIW, the audience between my legs during my vaginal birth was a hell of a lot less invasive and objectifying than the audience in the OR as several pieces of my anatomy that shouldn't ever see the light of day were laid upon my abdomen.
*wandering in from new posts*
i was not planning a uba2c, but i was planning an hbac with my son. after over 24 hours of excruciating contractions 2 minutes apart with my cervix stubbornly sitting at 2cm, i WAS seeking an epidural. i hadn't slept in 2 days by the time i got to the hospital, i NEEDED a break.
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