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Yelling - Page 3

post #41 of 78
10/3/06 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gaialice View Post
I am Italian and I want to say that there is a cultural element to the yelling, as well.
Yup. My DH is Greek, and having recently spent 3 weeks with his family in Greece...well...communication = yelling there! Everyone speaks in a loud tone. It is not berating or abusive but it is very surprising to witness coming from a culture in which yelling is discouraged.

When there was yelling in my house growing up, it meant that someone was being shamed, that someone was angry and out of control, that Bad Things were afoot. When there was yelling in my DH's house growing up, it just meant...breakfast was on the table. It was time to get in the car. The day's news was being recounted. HUGE difference in the context surrounding the raised voices.

So my DH does 'yell' a lot but he does not shame or berate or use yelling as a tool of intimidation. He just complains loudly or reports loudly about anything that causes him emotion, be it the person in the next lane who is trying to cut him off, or the coffee that spilled on the ground, or whatever. He *never* yells at DD. He does occasionally yell *at* *me*, but I can definitely go him one better.

It has been really hard to reprogram my brain to accept that yelling, while IMO never an objectively "positive" thing, is not objectively "negative" either. It's all in the perception. DD, interestingly enough, does not seem to perceive yelling as scary or even noteworthy enough to look up. Arguing, though, between me and DH - even if it's done in carefully calm voices - that makes her look worried. It's intriguing to me.

So, I think that *what* is said and the context surrounding it is really far more important than the tone of voice. That said, I do not yell (or I try not to) because for me it has negative associations, and I wish DH would lower his voice a few decibels. I worry that since DD is *not* growing up in Greece, she may come to feel that her father's tone is inappropriate and get stressed out when he raises his voice. I don't know.
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post #42 of 78
10/3/06 at 7:08pm
Interesting discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nora'sMama
So, I think that *what* is said and the context surrounding it is really far more important than the tone of voice.
I find this very interesting, mainly because I would have said the opposite. You know, it's not what you say but how you say it. There have been so many times that I have been okay with what people have said to me, but their tone of voice changes the context entirely. But at the same time, I understand what you're saying Nora'sMama. And I agree that different people have different ideas about what constitutes yelling. Unfortuantely dh and I have different ideas about this. He says I'm yelling; I say I'm speaking passionately and with emotion. Regardless, I've found that if he's the one I'm speaking to, it's upsetting to him if I speak in that tone of voice so I do my best to tone it down.

We do lots and lots of fun yelling in our house, though. We play yelling games, seeing who can yell the loudest and longest. It's much different than frustrated or angry yelling.
post #43 of 78
10/3/06 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by margitmama View Post
I grew up in a home that was very lively, passionate and loving, and yes there was yelling, and that was ok. It was part of the deal.
Margitmama, thanks so much for your post. I am not going to take what you say as an excuse to continue to yell, in fact as I said, I am really trying to stop. But, it does help to hear that you still think you grew up in a loving environment in spite of the yelling. I do feel at a very deep level, that this is so for my little ones also. In my house too, although my parents yelled very rarely, there was a lot of yelling because my siblings yelled a lot... and me, too, I remember a lively house full of guests, friends and by-passers, where emotions ran high and love was very very deep... That love binds us all together to this day.
post #44 of 78
10/3/06 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by abac View Post
Interesting discussion.I find this very interesting, mainly because I would have said the opposite. You know, it's not what you say but how you say it. There have been so many times that I have been okay with what people have said to me, but their tone of voice changes the context entirely. But at the same time, I understand what you're saying Nora'sMama. And I agree that different people have different ideas about what constitutes yelling. Unfortuantely dh and I have different ideas about this. He says I'm yelling; I say I'm speaking passionately and with emotion. Regardless, I've found that if he's the one I'm speaking to, it's upsetting to him if I speak in that tone of voice so I do my best to tone it down.

We do lots and lots of fun yelling in our house, though. We play yelling games, seeing who can yell the loudest and longest. It's much different than frustrated or angry yelling.

Well, I actually would also disagree with myself in a way...I don't think I 'put' it quite right, but you totally understood what I meant anyway... I also think tone of voice can mean everything in a verbal interaction but what I should have said was how LOUD the voice is. I mean, when my DH yells, he has an exasperated tone, but not a mean, sarcastic, angry tone. So tone of voice = makes a difference. Decibel level of voice = not so much, IMO, although it is grating and jarring to hear people speak louder than you are used to.

Sorry to be so confusing! I seem to be running a particularly high sleep deficit this week and I find myself astonished at how convoluted my sentences are, both talking and posting...
post #45 of 78
10/3/06 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nora'sMama View Post
when my DH yells, he has an exasperated tone, but not a mean, sarcastic, angry tone
that describes my yelling so exactly... and I understand what you mean when you say it does not have a big effect on Nora..
post #46 of 78
10/3/06 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by angela&avery View Post
If you arent predisposed to being a yeller, you would never understand. It is not EASY. Its a guilt filled journey of parenting. When you grow up being yelled at, it is often a forefront of "tools" that are ingrained in you.

It sucks. Its a knee jerk reaction as someone mentioned and depending on your personality its not enough to just reallize its wrong, its a conditioning.

When I yell its like an out of body experience. I can almost see myself yelling and Im telling myself to stop and I CANT.



It is a LONG HARD journey, be thankful and feel lucky you dont understand, and try not to judge us "yellers".

This is totally me, I could be yelling and in my mind thinking "This is horrible, you still remember being yelled at as a child, you can see that scared look in her eyes as mommy has lost control, you must STOP" Yet I couldn't, afterwards I will feel horrible and try to "make up for it" by extra cuddling, extra books and I realized that this was the same pattern that people who abuse their kids. The beat their kids and then buy them ice cream, let the stay up and watch TV, tell them how sorry they are for what they have done, then wake up and do it again tomorrow.

I knew that I had to stop but didn't know how. I know alot of you have issues with the book 1,2,3, Magic, but It has eliminated the yelling in our house, the tension is gone, I have not yelled in over a month, we are having fun together, and I rarely "count" her anymore. She self corrects her whining, is nicer to her sister, and we all have more fun together.
post #47 of 78
10/4/06 at 12:50am

Hi, I'm Tracey, and I'm a Yeller...

Great Thread! Yes, i too am a yeller. I'm not proud of it. I feel badly about it, but i don't kow what else to do. Talking nicely doesn't get results... not in my house...
Also, my dh is always telling me to stop yelling.. but also i think i just talk really loud. Sometimes he or my son will tell me to stop yelling, when i don't even consider it yelling, i am mearly asking for somethign loudly!!
Mothering is so hard, i think it humbles most people... we are all doing the best we can, and sometimes our best isn't so great!
I try to be a positive person all the time... just do it loudly!
I'd love to stop yelling, but i don't even know where to begin.
post #48 of 78
10/4/06 at 1:01am

Getting kid's attention without yelling

I've been visiting this thread almost daily and reading and rereading the posts. I don't want to call myself a yeller, but I have on occasion yelled. I think it's abusive to yell and want to find constructive ways to avoid it.

It seems different posters have different ways/types of yelling.

Yelling can be abusive in its intensity and language, but I think more common is the yelling to get someone's attention when a situation feels out of control.

So, what non-yelling ways do you all have of getting your family's attention? Try to be specific in answering so we mamas can learn best.

Recently, I've found myself not yelling, but repeating myself over and over to my 20 month old even though he's not responding. Clearly, if I'm saying it over and over and he's not responding, it's not working. So I need another way of getting his attention.

Thanks to everyone participating in this thread.
post #49 of 78
10/4/06 at 1:07am
Really haven't tried it much with my kids, but I do it with my kids at school. I just start talking very softly so they have to quiet down to know what I am saying
post #50 of 78
10/4/06 at 1:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by momster View Post
So, what non-yelling ways do you all have of getting your family's attention? Try to be specific in answering so we mamas can learn best.

Oooh, oooh, i have a good answer... I don't do it, but you made me think of it!! I recently took a job at my son's school in the cafateria. My job is to "yell at" (pun intended, haha) or re-direct kids who are talking too loudly, out of their seats, etc... Anyway, at the school, all the teachers and aides use a system to get attention when things are getting out of control. They clap the rhythm, lets see if i can type this right...

bump...bump...bump,bump,bump...
And they wait for the response from all the students to respond... bump bump! And then everyone is quiet and listening for direction. I may try this at home!! It really works!!
post #51 of 78
10/4/06 at 1:14am
Yeah Tracey, we did that at my school last year for assemblies, called it "The Riverside Beat" (I taught at Riverside Elem)
post #52 of 78
10/4/06 at 1:27am
Isn't that cool?? I love it when the entire cafeteria gets it immediately and it is all quiet!!
post #53 of 78
10/4/06 at 1:32am
Wow. You don't know how badly I needed to find this thread this week. I was definitely yelled at as a child. My mom took out a lot of her stresses on us in the form of yelling and screaming. I have found that it is one of the first things I resort to when things are spiraling out of control. I do very well avoiding it much of the time, but when I lose it I lose it in a bad, bad way. The worsts are typically during an escalating event with siblings and one has gotten hurt.

I have an awful incident to share. Just the other day, DD and DS were playing and DD started messing up what DS was doing I was nursing the baby and asked him to play nicely and as soon as the baby was sleeping I was putting DD down for nap, too. Then he'd have his playtime free of his sister. Three times he started to hit her with a toy. Each time I talked him down calmly (feeling very proud of myself for maintaining my calm) and he moved a little away from her. The fourth time, I missed the moment of intervention and he threw with a huge amount of force a wooden toy directly into her face. Livid does not describe what happened to me next. I screamed so hard at him to go to his room. Harder and louder than I ever have. I don't even want to know what my face looked like. : Thankfully, I didn't have a tirade against him personally, just that he had to go. Now. After dd and I both were calm. I set the timer for 30 minutes for him to calm down in his room (he was still quite frustrated) and at the end we would talk.

I can't tell you how hard it was to control what came out that day. It's hard to not revert to the old cycle of yelling about little things. I just couldn't control my reaction at that time. I think I also have a mild case of PPD and it's expressing itself as anger at my older dc and dh, too. I am VERY interested in real, practical tools for eliminating the yelling in my home. I understand occasional frustrations coming out. But what is happening here is way too excessive and stressing everyone out.
post #54 of 78
10/4/06 at 4:53am
My mother yelled at me a lot. She is bi-polar and has major anger issues. I'm not excusing it, but it's why. I hated it when she yelled. She would tear me down as much as possible. I would start crying and she would fall to her knees, cry, and beg for my forgiveness. I always said I forgived her, but I never have. To this day I hate that she let herself go when she was angry. I hate that she didn't get help.

I've yelled at my daughter three times. Each time I cried hard. I held her and apologized over and over. It's been quite awhile since I've yelled. When I'm at the point where I want to yell (only cause I think it will make me feel better, even though I know it doesn't) I take deep breaths and count to 10. Sometimes I even leave the room for a few seconds and turn the radio or tv on. It only takes a few seconds to get un-frustrated.

I've just taught myself to realize that yelling will do nothing but hurt her and me. So while every part of me wants to scream and yell some part reminds me that it can and will emotionally damage my daughter.
post #55 of 78
10/4/06 at 9:29am
but what do you do with what is welling up inside? fuming silence and all that tension is worse, and when it's welling up inside i literally have no place to go. no where to safely let all of those emotions out of my body.

i was raised by a paranoid schizophrenic mom until 6 and then by a bipolar brutal step mother who beat me viciously and screamed and belittled. when i think back, im so surprised that i believed i deserved it, because she was so out of control, but i really believed that it was my fault she was how she was. my father was working and never intervened in any of this. i have no idea how to raise my child. books never seem to touch on what comes up.

i yelled last night at seth. i feel awful AWFUL about it. it doesnt matter what he did, what matters is that i reacted in a negative manner that will ensure that he is raised in fear just like i was. thank god i don't hit him, but i felt what i suspect are the same feelings my step monster felt when she went ahead and hit me.

i just want to know how to redirect all of that negative energy in a healthy manner. i cant be lazy and say "well at least im not beating him" but if i keep this inside, i think that will terrorize him as well. all of that unsaid violence. all of that tension...
post #56 of 78
10/4/06 at 9:55am
Kathy, have you considered counselling? I also find regular yoga very calming. For me, anger and frustration is most often a result a result of unrealistic expectations which inevitably lead to disappointment. I find it's very important for me to avoid those situations that make my blood boil. Knowing my triggers has helped. For those that I can't avoid, taking some deep, cleansing breaths helps.

I try very hard to remind myself that I have the ability to make a given situation better or worse, depending on my reaction. This can be very hard to do in the heat of the moment, but if I can stop myself BEFORE I get too worked up, it's much easier.
post #57 of 78
10/4/06 at 10:14am
Quote:
Although I strive to be a GD parent, I was yelled at and it's the first thing I resort to when I am stressed and DS is misbehaving. I hate it. I hate what I am modeling for him. I hate the fact that I am losing my cool. I try every day to be calm with him, but some days are just harder than others.




Something else really quickly----I met w/a counselor who specializes in anger therapy once during a LLL conference. She told me one of the most important things to remember (as a beginning step) if you have yelling issues is to yell about the action/consequence/occurence/feeling rather than the child.

Anger is energy based on frustrated needs. It has to go somewhere. Just try and not let it go to the child.

If your child spills your tea, instead of saying, I'm so upset you spilled my tea!!!! Say: I'm so upset when my tea spills...or Ack! Tea!...or I AM FEELING SO FRUSTRATED!!!!
post #58 of 78
10/4/06 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by abac View Post
For me, anger and frustration is most often a result a result of unrealistic expectations which inevitably lead to disappointment.
This is true. This is why I find it harder and harder to avoid yelling at my daughter as she gets older because my expectations have increased. I don't yell at my son much at all because he's so young I don't expect him to be able to control himself, but at her age, I feel like she should be able to and that's what leads to my anger. It doesn't help that she's very bright and articulate and so can do things and talk like she's older and more mature.

While occaisionally I do explode over something, most of the yelling I do is in the getting the child's attention to prevent her from hurting her brother. I do sometimes clap loudly in sucession, but honestly I don't think that is any better because its an angry clap (am I getting into nuances or what?) but the problem is that I can talk in a low voice till I'm blue in the fact and DD will just ignore me. I'm not sure if this is just an excuse, but I feel I escalated to yelling because she doesn't listen to anything else and when she has her brother pinned to the ground screaming (or some equivilent) I don't know what else to do? I feel that figuring out an alternative for this situation is key, its like gateway yelling - since I'm used to yelling in these moments, I resort to yelling at other times when I do have alternatives I know I can use.
post #59 of 78
10/4/06 at 12:05pm
I have yelled before and I'm sure I will yell again.

It comes across as condescending to start a thread and say "I don't have any trouble with yelling. I don't really understand parents who do." and then solicit input from people who DO have trouble with it.

I mean, what is the point of the thread?

Anyway. Yes, I have yelled said horrible things when I'm really angry. It has never occurred to me that I should turn in my GD parent card because of it.

I think pretty much everyone has their moments where they are not the parent that they want to be.

My mom was VERY into shaming as well. That is something I have to work very hard to avoid doing, too. She used it and would still do it with my DS if I let her, and it makes my toes curl even to think about it.

I'm going through a divorce and have gone to work full-time and DS and I are going through a LOT of adjustments. He screams at me sometimes, and I yell at him sometimes. I have days where I feel like I'm not even worthy to be his mother, much less be the object of his devotion (and longing when I'm at work at all day).

I doubt many here have slogged through the mud in my shoes. But bad things happen and can and will happen to anyone. And then you find your parenting being defined by your reaction to these bad things.
post #60 of 78
10/4/06 at 3:52pm

Thank you for the Encouragement!

This is a wonderful thread!

We have a son and I do think (this might sound a bit sexist) that generally speaking, mothers to sons have a greater challenge. For example, our son climbs on everything (which is often dangerous), and is also highly independent (a great quality, though a bit scary when he tries to run off -- he's very fast!). Generally, he is much more physically active than most girls his age.

When I read the posts from Moms who write that they cannot understand why/how a Mom would yell, it seems these are the moms with girls only. (most likely why they are unable to understand.) Not to say that these Moms would yell if they had boys! It's just that generally speaking, girls tend to be a bit more calm. (I hope I do not get anyone upset with this comment. I don't mean to!)

I am not a yeller, though I have on three occasions tried it out to see if it was effective (it wasn't, so I have since retired that whole discipline strategy). It only made me feel like a failure, and my son just laughed!

Fortunately, I have lots of support from my husband, but nonetheless I do at times become extremely frustrated to the point of tears. I can only imagine how challening it is for Moms who are either single or do not have much support, or are under a lot of additional stress.

I love the advice about being mindful, taking deep breaths, transporting yourself to a relaxed state... All very effective (though it takes discipline on my part.)

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you to all the Moms for sharing your experiences. I find it very encouraging, and think you're GREAT!
Thank you!

P.S. I too at first wondered why this thread was started by someone who never yells and doesn't understand how anyone could -- I agree, that is a bit odd, with all due respect. But then I went on to read all the honest, wise, generous, humble comments and felt like chiming in!