Eye Rolling, huffing and puffing - Page 2

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by spruce

I don't view all discipline as bad. In that, I am sometimes in the minority.

Discipline is not the same thing as punishment.

Telling me my child doesn't understand why eyerolling is unacceptable is a little disingenuous.

It's nothing personal, I just don't believe punishment teaches anything. If we underststand why we don't stomp our feet and roll our eyes at each other, then we choose not to do it. Why punish? Most people punish so that their children will stop the offening behavior (why else would you?). They stop the behavior to avoid the punishment, not because they really understand why the behavior is wrong. Could you teach reading or math by punishing? I don' think you can teach discipline this way either. You may get compliance, but not true self-discipline.

I am well aware I'm in the tiny minority here, and aware it's shocking to many MDCers that I don't "allow" this type of behaviour.

Actually, it's the drill sergeant techniques that are shocking to me.

[SRHS]

While I try to only use natural or reasonable consequences with my kids, I also have a highly spirited child who used to have ZERO impulse control and sometimes with these kids, remembering the physicality of the consequence is easier to remember and stop an impulse than a talk about WHY...And at a younger age, my ds needed "laps" occaisionally to help him constructively work out some anger, frustration, impulsivity...but was too young or immature or both to recognize that need. Usually after the laps he said, "WHEW, I feel so much better....sorry I did X" and while I KNOW he did X without thinking, I also recognnized that his impulsivity was coming from a need to be more physical and a mere suggestion of "Maybe it's time to go outside and play" didn't work...he usually just took, the impulsivity and got escalated...but use of large muscles in a rhythmic way really seemed to help...Now that he is older and his behaviors aren't HURTING others physically I am adjusting my reactions to him and our "discipline." However, some kids need a physical outlet and consequence. My younger never has...even as a little one I could say, "OH NO, that hurt X" And he usually said, "Oh sorry." And it never came up again...however, with one who is the complete opposite, I can see the usefullness of the pushups...at least for some. However, Like I said, as Zac is able to think and rationalize and internalize more, we have moved away from that. But when he was 5, 6, 7 they were darned effective,. and even now Zac will say, "I think I need some laps." And goes out and runs or skates around a while, then comes back in...So while some mama's and kids would look at that as controlling and punitive, I see that I taught him an acceptable outlet for his anger/frustration/whatever...and I think he sees it as that also. I think a lot of it has to do with the manner in which the situation is handled. I also think it matters if kids see parents using the same tools themselves. When the kids are on my last good nerve, I say...OK, MOMMY NEEDS SOME LAPS...sit and watch TV, I'll be back in 10!!! So I don't think the kids would see laps as punitive if I am using the tool myself. KWIM?

I think as long as we consistently deal with our kiddos respectfully, apologize when we mess up, and love them unconditionally...those messages come through. And at the end of the day...none of us are perfect, but if our kids grow up knowign they are loved and accepted...we've done a good job. Even if occaisionally they roll their eyes at us.

[lotusbeans]

I think another thing is that we/they continue behaviour like this if it gets us what we want or we think the reaction is still worth it. Plenty of adults to the sighing, groaning and eye-rolling thing and have probably been doing it for years.

I've seen parents (and I'm sure I do it sometimes too) give in to their kids because they can't deal with the stuff. Like, kids know "If I ask for this twice I won't get it, but if I nag and nag and don't let it go, sometimes she gives in." That basically turns into us teaching them to act that way because it gets the desired results.

I think with the teen huffing and puffing the same thing can happen - if you react the way they're hoping you react, they will keep doing it.

[SRHS]

lotus beans....SO TRUE...and just goes to illustrate that it is a teenage tempertantrum...

Sus

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by SRHS

While I try to only use natural or reasonable consequences with my kids, I also have a highly spirited child who used to have ZERO impulse control and sometimes with these kids, remembering the physicality of the consequence is easier to remember and stop an impulse than a talk about WHY...And at a younger age, my ds needed "laps" occaisionally to help him constructively work out some anger, frustration, impulsivity...but was too young or immature or both to recognize that need. Usually after the laps he said, "WHEW, I feel so much better....sorry I did X" and while I KNOW he did X without thinking, I also recognnized that his impulsivity was coming from a need to be more physical and a mere suggestion of "Maybe it's time to go outside and play" didn't work...he usually just took, the impulsivity and got escalated...but use of large muscles in a rhythmic way really seemed to help...Now that he is older and his behaviors aren't HURTING others physically I am adjusting my reactions to him and our "discipline." However, some kids need a physical outlet and consequence. My younger never has...even as a little one I could say, "OH NO, that hurt X" And he usually said, "Oh sorry." And it never came up again...however, with one who is the complete opposite, I can see the usefullness of the pushups...at least for some. However, Like I said, as Zac is able to think and rationalize and internalize more, we have moved away from that. But when he was 5, 6, 7 they were darned effective,. and even now Zac will say, "I think I need some laps." And goes out and runs or skates around a while, then comes back in...So while some mama's and kids would look at that as controlling and punitive, I see that I taught him an acceptable outlet for his anger/frustration/whatever...and I think he sees it as that also. I think a lot of it has to do with the manner in which the situation is handled. I also think it matters if kids see parents using the same tools themselves. When the kids are on my last good nerve, I say...OK, MOMMY NEEDS SOME LAPS...sit and watch TV, I'll be back in 10!!! So I don't think the kids would see laps as punitive if I am using the tool myself. KWIM?

I think as long as we consistently deal with our kiddos respectfully, apologize when we mess up, and love them unconditionally...those messages come through. And at the end of the day...none of us are perfect, but if our kids grow up knowign they are loved and accepted...we've done a good job. Even if occaisionally they roll their eyes at us.

I think if what you are saying is that some kids need a physical outlet for frustration and anger, I agree. Teaching that through guidance and example, as you suggest, is great! But, I believe push ups as a punishment to be just another way for an adult to assert his or her power over a child. This is why it's used by the Army. They want to show the new recruits who is in change and teach blind obedience. They don't care if you agree with the rules as long as you obey them. My goals for my children are much loftier and long term.

My younger never has...even as a little one I could say, "OH NO, that hurt X" And he usually said, "Oh sorry." And it never came up again...however, with one who is the complete opposite, I can see the usefullness of the pushups...

It does take much more guidance and maturing for most children to learn. Imposing a punishment might get you quicker obedience, but that's not my goal.

[lotusbeans]

Originally Posted by SRHS

lotus beans....SO TRUE...and just goes to illustrate that it is a teenage tempertantrum...

Sus

Yeah, it is in so many ways just that. I remind myself that there's a lot of stuff she does now that I don't have to correct or worry about - it's stuff that she'll just shed once she gets past these years.

[ilanam]

Glad I found this thread. My ten-year-old dd (she'll be 11 in Dec.) has shown some similar behavior though hers tends to go further than just the eye rolls. She'll huff and puff and eventually will start to yell and try to storm out of the room. If she is sent to her room to cool down she will often escalate and start screaming into her pillows and tearing up paper. It is MAJOR and really hard to stay unaffected by.

We had a really big incident last week and kept her home from school that day to work through it. At one point she was in her room and just drew a ton of pictures on page after page of paper. Looking at these were really helpful. We made the most progress in our talks about the pictures she had drawn and were able to laugh.

We have spoken with her teacher at school about this. She attends a Waldorf school and they had some insights based on Rudolph Steiner's philosophy that addresses some of this. He speaks of the 9 and 10 year phase as quite challenging for children. They are just beginning to discover and explore their individuality (the eye rolls are one expression of their independence from our opinions). This is both exciting and terrifying because they are breaking out of some of their childhood securities. Testing boundries is another big part of this.

My DD's teacher put it this way: You are a firm frame that provides structure for your child's life. As they get older they will will butt against this to test the strenghth of this structure. Wheedling, whining, begging, stomping, screaming, huffing, puffing....all to test the strength of their role models...to test the "deservedness" of this position. "Are you worthy of my emulation?", "Do your values withstand questioning?", "Is this structure strong enough to build upon?"...these are questions they are asking us everytime we "butt heads". If we buckle and give into them, or allow them to be the ones to dictake the form and shape of this structure, their diappointment with be acute. This is not to say that we are rigid and unmoving in any of our rules and requests....there is always room for flexibility, but we all know when it goes past that... Think of firm padding as oppossed to cinderblock...firm, but some give. This is something they need from us for their stability and sense of security and love.

Others have reminded me that this time period for children is a time of great fluctuation in their inner chemistry. This resonates physically, mentally and spiritually with children.....during this period of time they are often not themselves...they are in the grips of major chemical shifts that are much like strong undercurrents in the ocean...it can take some time to swim out of this current and come to grips once they are pulled into it.

This really helped me to draw the strength I needed to stick to my guns about the really important stuff (blatant disrespect to her family members etc.) and the sense of humor to kind of let some of the smaller stuff slide.

I have also found considerable help in books about Indigo children and a book called "Raising Your Spirited Child".

Hope this helps and thanks for letting me vent a little, too. I know that things can be quite different for boys and girls, but at this age, they are both just entering puberty and are going through many of the same things phsychologically. Has your ds always been emotional or is this kind of new? My dd is naturally theatrical, as well (think crying in front of the mirror to see how it looks kind of thing) and this just adds to the drama. Good luck!

[Flor]

If it is a situation where I know that he feels it is unfair, I let it go. He needs to express it somehow. But, if I feel that he is just being unreasonable (ie. it is his job to take out trash, I asked nicely twice and now I'm saying, "Do it now," and he huffs and puffs) then I do stop him and say, "Why are you doing that? What are you trying to say?" He usually doesn't have much of an arguement (because if he had a reasonable gripe, I let him puff). I think the little annoyance of having to stop and express your feelings to your stepmom, or explain your annoyance has cut down on the huffing and puffing.

[SRHS]

Ilanam...I LOVE the frame analogy....That was so helpful to me...I printed it out and pasted it to my mirror (which no longer really looks like a mirror, rather all the things I need to remind myself of before I start my day!!)

Flor....good info also...Zac is quite the visual spatial learner, so often has trouble communicating with words...this will just be one more instance I can ask him to express his thoughts/feelings clearly with words...and maybe learn some respectful ways of communicating to each other, and he might see what realistic expectations are!!! Well, I can hope right???

Thanks to all!!! Sus

[hutsonmom]

i am new to the on line community so if i make mistake please let me know.

i have 4 dd's 19,18,17,7. we are a mixed family!! two mine, one his, one ours. i also raised my sister from 16 on when i was in my twenties. we also use discipline in our house. i feel it is important to teach my children action/consequence. if i act inappropriately at work i would have expect to be reprimanded. if i act inappropriately at the ball feild, school or even most other public places i would expect some sort of repricussions and i want my children to understand that and also that no one else can control their behavior and actions they have to learn to do this own their on. i guess i will be a minority as well. we do not use excercise though i don't think it is a bad idea one i might try. but we will ground, send to room, take phone, assign extra chores etc.. also if they really mess up they have to work with me ALL DAY on SATURDAY to teenagers this is torture not just the whole day of work but on a saturday... it usually makes my point. and i do not reales from punishment for anything!! if i ground you you will stay grounded for the whole time no exceptions. i am the mom nuf said.

hutsonmom