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Healing Early Childhood Tooth Decay Naturally - Page 3

post #41 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post
Hi,

Clarified Butter known as Ghee, from high vitamin butter. Egg yolks, and use the non-dairy baby formula from the Weston A Price Foundation.

http://www.westonaprice.org/children/formula-faqs.html

Also raw grass fed bone marrow.

Rami
how do you eat the bone marrow? i tries a little straight and, uh, i don;t think i could do that very often due to the mouth-feel.

sarah
post #42 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post

The current theory of tooth decay is not accurate. It is based on an outdated model of germs causing disease. While it is supposed that tooth decay is caused by Strep Mutans, we see that this is either highly unlikely, or impossi2. Purity Farms Ghee (this method is untested right now, but it may work) it must be from dates that say 06 XX XX, 07 XX XX, or 08 XX XX
Ok, I recently got some purity farms ghee, but the date says 09 XX XX... what's the difference???

Thanks
michelle
post #43 of 123
I think I ifigured it out...maybe the ghee was made in those months (summer) and that's when coes have the most nutrients from grass.
post #44 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2talus View Post
There has been quite a bit of research done on this topic and just throwing it all out is really worrying to me.

oh boy! i'm glad to hear that! i thought i'd killed the discussion on this topic since no one every answered my questions! or maybe i'm just too skeptical and it's not worth the time to try and convert me?

glad to know i'm not alone.
post #45 of 123
HI,

I DON'T THINK YOU MENTIONED THIS BUT SOMEWHERE HERE I READ ABOUT PROBIOTICS HELPING. SO I WENT OUT AND GOT SOME ACIDOPHILUS. NOW WITH A LITTLE WEB RESEARCH I HAVE READ ThaT
L acidophilus is a major cause of cavities...

Does anyone know about this?

My 19 month old dd has 4 cavities in her front teeth, and probably gets
%40-%70 of her calories from breastmilk. We also eat super healthily.. LOTS of wild fish, all organic farmers market foods...

The dentist says its from night nursing..And I'm not wiling to give this up.

So we're really getting more into nourishing traditions eating, more brushing, some wiping her mouth out at night...and the Calc Phos.

Does anyone know about the probiotic issue?

Thanks.. mamshauna mama to a sweet thing 9/20/05
post #46 of 123
This has been some very interesting information. However with that being said, I would question some of the xray pictures.
They state that the pictures on the right show the teeth that have remineralized their dentin. If that is the case, then why does the premolar now have a root canal? If the tooth was healed, it would not have needed to have a root canal done on it.
The xrays also show multiple fillings on the teeth.
Hmmmmm?
post #47 of 123
Does anyone have an opinion on the best CLO?
Green pastures, Dr Ron's, or Radiant life??? What about Nordic Naturals?

TIA!!!
Michelle
post #48 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonniecita View Post
Does anyone have an opinion on the best CLO?
Green pastures, Dr Ron's, or Radiant life??? What about Nordic Naturals?
I've been getting TwinLab. It has 4600 IUs of vitamin A to 400 IUs of vitamin D per teaspoon.
post #49 of 123
I am surfing around gathering as much info as I can. I'm so confused & frustrated & overwhelmed by the whole topic. My 17 mo old son (who, BTW, was himself in BRC as a fetus ) has his 1st dentist appt on Thurs & I'm soooooooo nervous about what they're going to try to convince me to do or think.

My son seems to have just grown cavities right along with his teeth! All his front teeth look terrible, cavity laden, with holes, rotting away!! And I have no idea why!

My 1st baby had "bottle mouth syndrome" & had tons of traumatic dental work done, my 2nd had perfectly fine teeth (& no bottles), & here my 3rd, who is a breastfeeding maniac & has never had a bottle or soda or ANYthing has the rotten teeth.

We too are long time vegetarians & I'm not a big fan of Weston Price. But I'm absorbing every bit of info I can get my hands on here, & appreciate your sharing all this info, Rami.
post #50 of 123
Hey mamas, I just want to post a little more of my own experience. I've given bits of it in other posts. I'm currently dealing with enamel loss/decay in my 2nd son who is 17 mos. My first son had the same issue, and ended up having extensive work done at the age of 4, under sedation. When we first realized the extent of his tooth problems, it lead me to learn more about nutrition as it relates to tooth development - our diet was already pretty good, though. Subsequently, I ate according to WAPF guidelines for 4 years before my second son was born, including grassfed raw dairy, CLO, etc. (everything they recommend except liver, which I simply cannot stand). I still believe in the importance of nutrient density and the value of quality nutrients from animal foods, for many reasons, but in our case, this diet (for myself and for him) was not enough for my second son to have strong enamel on his baby teeth. There's no possibilty that his problem was caused by sticky foods or juice or anything like that. He's very likely going to end up needing to have restorative work done on baby teeth as well. At this point, it's only the top 4 in front that have issues. It's too early to judge whether the damage will be less than with my first son. Sometimes this happens even with a diet that is very high in all those tooth-building nutrients. My own baby teeth had a similar problem, which points to genetic predisposition IMO. The good news is that my oldest's adult teeth are fine, the enamel is strong, and it looks like he won't have crowded or crooked teeth (my own adult teeth are okay enamel-wise, and I have don't have crowded or crooked teeth although as a teenager and young adult my diet sucked and I ended up with a lot of cavities during that time). There are so many factors that can contribute to these kind of problems in baby teeth, there are no pat answers in many cases. I think the multi-generational decline in tooth health resulting from reduced nutrient density society-wide, combined with the toxic load we're all exposed to just by living in today's world, can't always be overcome in one generation.
post #51 of 123
AJP, I think you're right, although it doesn't mean not to adopt the proper ways of healthy eating. My son has exactly the same problem - his 4 front teeth have lost the enamel, the two on the side of the two front ones are only dentin and are wearing down to nubs. And those two REALLy hurt when we brush. We are trying to maintain and keep them until he is at least old enough for GA and can have them removed. We eat WAP/NT and he doesn't get sweets and we don't even really eat grains except rice, and still there it is.
post #52 of 123
subbing

Interesting stuff; the maternal nutrient depletion may explain why my 3rd child (5), who was breastfed the longest, has decay in his front teeth, while the older two don't.

Hoping to hear more discussion! :
post #53 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasmyn View Post
although it doesn't mean not to adopt the proper ways of healthy eating.
Absolutely. I sometimes feel like when I say "well, yeah, we eat that way and we still have this problem", that people think I'm saying to not bother with the nutritional approach, which not at all the case. I just want people to understand it's not a panacea, and there are other factors.
post #54 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJP View Post
Absolutely. I sometimes feel like when I say "well, yeah, we eat that way and we still have this problem", that people think I'm saying to not bother with the nutritional approach, which not at all the case. I just want people to understand it's not a panacea, and there are other factors.
I agree completely.
post #55 of 123
Update. My 17mo old had his dental appt today & it was even worse than I predicted!! They want to put him under gen anesthesia for 2 hours & give him 6 root canals & cap nearly all his teeth in silver caps!!! They also want me to night wean, cut back on the frequency of his eating anything, & put flouride on his teeth after every meal!! And this will all cost us over $1500 out of pocket. Unless we just want him strapped down & fully conscious during treatment, then of course it's cheaper. Um, NO.

SO. Now I know that this treatment plan is what I DO NOT WANT, but how will I figure out what we DO WANT????

And his teeth are so bad, we can't waste a lot of time.

Oh the stress. :

Thanks for allowing me to vent.
post #56 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by zjande View Post
Update. My 17mo old had his dental appt today & it was even worse than I predicted!! They want to put him under gen anesthesia for 2 hours & give him 6 root canals & cap nearly all his teeth in silver caps!!! They also want me to night wean, cut back on the frequency of his eating anything, & put flouride on his teeth after every meal!! And this will all cost us over $1500 out of pocket. Unless we just want him strapped down & fully conscious during treatment, then of course it's cheaper. Um, NO.

SO. Now I know that this treatment plan is what I DO NOT WANT, but how will I figure out what we DO WANT????

And his teeth are so bad, we can't waste a lot of time.

Oh the stress. :

Thanks for allowing me to vent.
Are you on the alternativekidsteeth yahoo group? I looked in the database and there is a dentist there in Eugene that is recommended. I know it's a bit of a drive from Portland, but my first thought is get a second opinion, because a lot of this sounds very wrong to me. Also in the files section is a lot of good info that might be useful to you, including info on breastfeeding (don't stop).

The dentist in Eugene is Katrina Drew if you're interested.

I would do as much research as you can before you make a choice about this, and if you're not on the yahoo group, sign up. People can be incredibly helpful there, and they will understand that time is of the essence if you ask questions and explain.
post #57 of 123
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post #58 of 123
Thread Starter 

Dental Treatments Don't Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by mombh View Post
I have been reading this thread with great interest. thanks for the great info.
ds is 3 1/2 and is also my 7th child, he has many food allergies is gluten intolerent and has cavities.
I had decided not to proceed with dental treatment and for quite a while have been doing lot's of bone broths, clo (I did not yet get the high vitamin butter, but will soon) use xylitol to clean his teeth use probiotics and homemade yogurt , and while I have not noticed any additional cavities ? staining or worsening of existing decay, I was wondering if it could be getting worse without showing? I am hesitant to take him back to the dentist right now since they don't agree with the "wait and watch " approach.
he also has decay in some molars but he does not complain of pain or anything, and he is happy and growing well and his digestion seems to be good.
tia
Hi There,
Find another dentist, who is not so interested in turning your child's mouth into more profit, and who is concerned about your child's health.

I cannot find the link right now, someone else can do it, even full dental restorations with general anesthesia relapse rate is something like 50-60% in 4-6 months. http://www.cda-adc.ca/jcda/vol-69/issue-5/304.pdf

The question then is, why subject your child to a painful procedure if they do not absolutely need it, when the procedure does not confirm immunity to decay, but rather pulls out a tooth that is decayed to stop the bacteria from decaying the tooth more.

R
post #59 of 123
Thread Starter 

Do More Research

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayaMama View Post
i was hesitant to get into this debate but it seems that many people are interested in this thread and i just want to point out a few questions i have with this information:

after a tiny bit of research i found this http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/cont...tract/81/7/505
that indicates, the bacteria doesn't actually "eat" the sugar but uses sucrose to increase it's ability to bind to the tooth surface.

this article http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/35/2/583
indicates that, as you are saying, sucrose doesn't increase the growth rate of the bacteria. maybe there is a misunderstanding about how sugars "cause" the decay?

You are right, there is a misunderstanding. Bacteria's are present when decay happens, but do not cause decay. Decay is caused when the calcium/phosphorus balance of the blood is thrown off by imbalanced blood sugar caused by eating primarily sugar and flour products.

Check your research, white sugar debilitates bacteria's.
"Once the jar is opened, sugar incapacitates any microorganisms by its ability to attract water. "
White sugar is processed so it has no nutrients. Bacteria's need nutrients to live. Explain that!

i'm also curious as to how the aboriginal people whose diet changed from natural foods to processed sugar and white flour (while being very bad nutritionally) doesn't seem to indicate that these foods may also increase the ability of the bacteria to cause cavities?

The bacteria eat the decaying flesh and teeth.

i agree with the whole body health concept but i don't necessarily think that the entire bacterial/cavity theory is incorrect. peer-reviewed journals from all over the world must have some evidence for the idea.

Weston Price was widely published in the ADA in the 1930's. Why has nutritional prevention of decay been lost?

please let me know if this is more an informational topic rather than a debatable one. so far i haven't seen many questions about the ideas presented so i'm not sure if this is the right place to ask? i'm new here :
You can always waste time debating.
Dental surgery treats a symptom, and not the cause. Many experiments seem to be pointless and offer little real value. However, more research is surely needed to clarify what on earth those bacteria's are doing.

Rami
post #60 of 123
Thread Starter 

The Treaments do not Work

[QUOTE=mom2talus;8011798]PlayaMama, I'm glad you said something. I'm a bit concerned about this topic as we just had a child actually die from tooth decay here in the DC area. There has been quite a bit of research done on this topic and just throwing it all out is really worrying to me. My son is almost four and has no decay or cavities, just through regular, twice-daily flossing and brushing. If he had any decay at all, however, I wouldn't mess with it for a minute. I'd be straight at the dentist doing what needs to be done!

The child did not die from tooth decay. Perhaps they died from an infection. Did this child see a dentist? Are you aware of how many children die while getting treated for tooth decay? I do not know the answer, but I have heard of several instances.

The relapse rate for dental treatments on children, this includes the risks of full anesthesia are over 50% in just 4-6 months.
http://www.cda-adc.ca/jcda/vol-69/issue-5/304.pdf

All most conventional dentist do is drill, fill, and remove teeth, or apply the one of the most deadly poisons on the planet, fluoride. http://bruha.com/pfpc/

Drill holes in teeth to prevent a little tiny bacteria from make a hole in the tooth does not seem like good science to me.

Tooth decay is a result of physical degeneration. Not all children have it, in fact, about 27% of young children have had at least one tooth affected by decay, the rest are decay free, that is until they get older, the number rises to over 93%

Why do you think with all those fillings in place, people still get more and more decay?

Sure, there may be special instances when dental work is necessary, but how about preventing the need in the first place.

Rami
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