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Healing Early Childhood Tooth Decay Naturally - Page 4

post #61 of 123
Thread Starter 

Bone Marrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahlyao View Post
how do you eat the bone marrow? i tries a little straight and, uh, i don;t think i could do that very often due to the mouth-feel.

sarah
Rub it on toast with a little bit of sea salt, put it in smoothies, add it to salads, or just hold your nose.

Rami
post #62 of 123
Thread Starter 

Why Root Canal In Picture

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitsmommy View Post
This has been some very interesting information. However with that being said, I would question some of the xray pictures.
They state that the pictures on the right show the teeth that have remineralized their dentin. If that is the case, then why does the premolar now have a root canal? If the tooth was healed, it would not have needed to have a root canal done on it.
The xrays also show multiple fillings on the teeth.
Hmmmmm?
Hi,

Very observant, they put root canals in 3 of the teeth. Originally the person was going to have all their teeth removed, so they saved all of them. Your picking at the details and ignoring the bigger picture. The patient was "so enthusiastic that she wishes to give lectures on nutrition to aid others with their dental problems." But yes, it is not clear why those three had root canals. In light of Dr. Price's research about root canals, he probably would later in his career not have done that. And the fillings may have also done as a restoration, for cosmetic reasons.

Rami
post #63 of 123
Thread Starter 

Priobotics, or Deadly Bacteria, you decide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mamashauna View Post
HI,

I DON'T THINK YOU MENTIONED THIS BUT SOMEWHERE HERE I READ ABOUT PROBIOTICS HELPING. SO I WENT OUT AND GOT SOME ACIDOPHILUS. NOW WITH A LITTLE WEB RESEARCH I HAVE READ ThaT
L acidophilus is a major cause of cavities...

Does anyone know about this?

Yes, bacteria are not the cause of tooth decay, at best they contribute to it, at worst, they just eat decaying flesh and teeth.

My 19 month old dd has 4 cavities in her front teeth, and probably gets
%40-%70 of her calories from breastmilk. We also eat super healthily.. LOTS of wild fish, all organic farmers market foods...

Your body chemistry is probably out of balance, and so you are not utilizing all the nutrients from the food. How much Activator X is in your diet? How much phosphorus, and how much calcium. You need to have Yellow Butter or fish eggs twice daily, say 1-2 tablepoons eat time, along with approx 5000 IU of Vit A from cod liver oil or liver

I am still working out a theory on it, but decay may not be preventable in children. However, with a good diet, the body will grow new dentine, glassy hard, and protect the pulp chambers even when the teeth still appear to decay. You can test with your fingernail or through visual inspection.


The dentist says its from night nursing..And I'm not wiling to give this up.

Get a new dentist. At night children grow, they use the breastmilk for nutrients.

So we're really getting more into nourishing traditions eating, more brushing, some wiping her mouth out at night...and the Calc Phos.

Does anyone know about the probiotic issue?

Yes I do.
You can see the wrong thinking about the bacteria's in this example. If L. acidophilus caused decay, then we should avoid yogurt, and other fermented foods right?

L. acidophilus is present in large amounts in the mouth when decay is active, and not present at all or only in minute amounts when decay is not active. L. acidophilus is present in large amounts in our gut.

So what is the explanation?
My educated guess is that the L. acidophilus are digesting some toxic material's or foods in our mouth, possible the teeth themselves.


Thanks.. mamshauna mama to a sweet thing 9/20/05
Rami
post #64 of 123
Thread Starter 

Do You have any Faith?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJP View Post
When we first realized the extent of his tooth problems, it lead me to learn more about nutrition as it relates to tooth development - our diet was already pretty good, though. Subsequently, I ate according to WAPF guidelines for 4 years before my second son was born, including grassfed raw dairy, CLO, etc. (everything they recommend except liver, which I simply cannot stand).

That seems really like a devastating blow, since you tried so hard to be healthy, and the protocol apparently did not help, however, the situation may have been 10x worse without those foods

I still believe in the importance of nutrient density and the value of quality nutrients from animal foods, for many reasons, but in our case, this diet (for myself and for him) was not enough for my second son to have strong enamel on his baby teeth.

How much activator X and other fat-soluble activators where in your diet? These foods are not commonly utilized.

There's no possibilty that his problem was caused by sticky foods or juice or anything like that.

Any grains? What about sweet fruits like bananas, grapes, peaches, strawberries? What about raw honey and maple syrup?

It's too early to judge whether the damage will be less than with my first son. My own baby teeth had a similar problem, which points to genetic predisposition IMO.

There is a rare genetic condition where children's teeth do decay. I misplaced the book, but some native people's somewhere had children with this problem, their adult teeth were healthy. You would know if the tooth enamel is hard and glassy, or is chalky, flaky, or rotten?

There are so many factors that can contribute to these kind of problems in baby teeth, there are no pat answers in many cases. I think the multi-generational decline in tooth health resulting from reduced nutrient density society-wide, combined with the toxic load we're all exposed to just by living in today's world, can't always be overcome in one generation.
Many of us humans fail to look at our dark side and realize the part of ourselves that do not want to be healthy.

Melvin Page DDS, who utilized Dr. Price's work, found that the body chemistry had to be balanced in some difficult cases for decay to stop. He did this with anthroprometric measurements and used glandular supplements


To me you are a success. Try bone marrow, and liver for your son, and make sure their is a daily supply of yellow butter, eaten with the liver or cod liver oil.

Rami
post #65 of 123
Thread Starter 

Do not give up

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasmyn View Post
AJP, I think you're right, although it doesn't mean not to adopt the proper ways of healthy eating. My son has exactly the same problem - his 4 front teeth have lost the enamel, the two on the side of the two front ones are only dentin and are wearing down to nubs. And those two REALLy hurt when we brush. We are trying to maintain and keep them until he is at least old enough for GA and can have them removed. We eat WAP/NT and he doesn't get sweets and we don't even really eat grains except rice, and still there it is.
Your sons teeth hurt because the secondary dentine is not hard.
Make sure he is getting yellow butter 2x daily as much as he desires to eat, throw in some fish eggs for good measure, and give him lots of liver and bone marrow.

Also avoid sweet fruits and even natural sweeteners. Try raw and fermented fish, bone soup's daily, and plenty of beef rare cooked or in stews. Make sure the rice has been soaked for an extended period, like 12 hours. I personally rarely or never eat rice except for the Dosas, in which the rice is fermented overnight, and then fermented again overnight.


So long as you prevent an infection, what more can you do?

When the teeth are nubs, all a dentist can do is put the child to sleep, and then hack away at those roots and pull out the tooth.

keep trying, you can succeed.

Rami
post #66 of 123
Thread Starter 

Other FActors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJP View Post
Absolutely. I sometimes feel like when I say "well, yeah, we eat that way and we still have this problem", that people think I'm saying to not bother with the nutritional approach, which not at all the case. I just want people to understand it's not a panacea, and there are other factors.
Hi,

Have you found out what those factors are? And what are you doing about them?

You are right. A minute birth defect, caused perhaps by the germ of the father, can lead to an inability to metabolize calcium in the intestines, resulting in tooth decay. What are you doing about it?

I think it is a panacea not to take full responsibility for ones health/life as well as our children's health.

Rami
post #67 of 123
Thread Starter 

There is no treatment

Quote:
Originally Posted by zjande View Post
Update. My 17mo old had his dental appt today & it was even worse than I predicted!! They want to put him under gen anesthesia for 2 hours & give him 6 root canals & cap nearly all his teeth in silver caps!!! They also want me to night wean, cut back on the frequency of his eating anything, & put flouride on his teeth after every meal!! And this will all cost us over $1500 out of pocket. Unless we just want him strapped down & fully conscious during treatment, then of course it's cheaper. Um, NO.

SO. Now I know that this treatment plan is what I DO NOT WANT, but how will I figure out what we DO WANT????

And his teeth are so bad, we can't waste a lot of time.

Oh the stress. :

Thanks for allowing me to vent.
Hi,

I think you need to realize that there is no viable treatment in your case. I have just recently posted that even if you do what exactly what the dentist says, and poison your child with flouride, and deprive him of his love and nourishment with breastmilk, and waste thousands of dollars, and cause your child trauma, and you trauma, their is a 100% chance he won't be cured, and a 50% chance that his symptoms will return after 4-6 months.

I think 25% of tooth extractions lead to dry socket, meaning, the socket does not heal after the tooth is pulled. Root canals can get infected.

Your suffering, if you can allow it fully, feel it, will dissolve itself, and you will find a way that works.

The only sane solution is to avoid dental surgery, and be extremely healthy, and prevent an infection, let the old teeth die away, forget about how they look and with a healthy diet, new ones will be born. I met a father who did this successfully. His daughter even got several abscesses and infections, and he would not allow his girl to be traumatized by a dentist. All her adult teeth came in straight, except one, which an orthodontists was able to correct simply. Her first dental appointment was when she was 8, and not a problem. He used pureed meats and veggies, homeopathy and metabolic testing and treatments to keep her healthy until she was an adult.

Rami
post #68 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post
Your sons teeth hurt because the secondary dentine is not hard.
Make sure he is getting yellow butter 2x daily as much as he desires to eat, throw in some fish eggs for good measure, and give him lots of liver and bone marrow.

Also avoid sweet fruits and even natural sweeteners. Try raw and fermented fish, bone soup's daily, and plenty of beef rare cooked or in stews. Make sure the rice has been soaked for an extended period, like 12 hours. I personally rarely or never eat rice except for the Dosas, in which the rice is fermented overnight, and then fermented again overnight.


So long as you prevent an infection, what more can you do?

When the teeth are nubs, all a dentist can do is put the child to sleep, and then hack away at those roots and pull out the tooth.

keep trying, you can succeed.

Rami
Rami,

We went to the dentist yesterday after my son broke one of his teeth this past weekend (he slammed his face into the coffee table and the tooth broke in half horizontally). Of course the dentist wants to extract all 4 teeth, but I am of course less than thrilled with this approach.

would you be willing to talk to me - via email or on the phone - to help me make sure I am doing EVERYTHING I can - maybe talk to me about what to do about the broken tooth as another option? He doesn't seem to be in any pain unless we put cold things on it, and he was already eating apples on the side of his mouth because I think the dentin hurts to put pressure on.

I would really in my heart of hearts love to avoid this surgery, even though it will be done without GA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post

The only sane solution is to avoid dental surgery, and be extremely healthy, and prevent an infection, let the old teeth die away, forget about how they look and with a healthy diet, new ones will be born. I met a father who did this successfully. His daughter even got several abscesses and infections, and he would not allow his girl to be traumatized by a dentist. All her adult teeth came in straight, except one, which an orthodontists was able to correct simply. Her first dental appointment was when she was 8, and not a problem. He used pureed meats and veggies, homeopathy and metabolic testing and treatments to keep her healthy until she was an adult.

Rami
Do you by any chance have this man's contact information? I would LOVE to email or talk to him, as well.

BTW, The dentist wants to do DS's extraction next Tuesday, so if you can answer ASAP, that would be so muchly appreciated.
post #69 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post
How much activator X and other fat-soluble activators where in your diet? These foods are not commonly utilized.
Lots of grassfed raw dairy, plus, as I said, we ate/are eating just about everything recommended by the WAPF with all the fat-soluble nutrients we can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post
There is a rare genetic condition where children's teeth do decay. I misplaced the book, but some native people's somewhere had children with this problem, their adult teeth were healthy. You would know if the tooth enamel is hard and glassy, or is chalky, flaky, or rotten?
Both of them have had chalky spots on their teeth when they emerged through the gums, before they started solids of any kind. My first son's adult teeth have good enamel, as do my own adult teeth, it's just the baby enamel that has been weak.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post
Hi,

Have you found out what those factors are? And what are you doing about them?
I suspect it's a combination of genetic/inborn predisposition to this baby tooth enamel weakness and various pollutants that are impossible to avoid living in the modern world, plus the handed-down nutritional deficiencies from the past few generations. I also think that once the enamel weakness is present, for whatever reason, bacteria can get a foothold and grow where they shouldn't, which contributes to the downward spiral. What I'm doing about it is trying to give my kids the absolute best nutritional foundation I can and avoid toxic exposure and polluted situations as much as is practical. Not too much I can do about the genetic contribution. A leopard can't change his spots. My husband has perfect teeth, has never had decay in baby or adult teeth (I'm jealous, really).

Quote:
Originally Posted by yourreturn View Post
I think it is a panacea not to take full responsibility for ones health/life as well as our children's health.
I'm sorry, but - huh? What do you mean by that? "Panacea" means cure-all, the way you're using it in the sentence above doesn't make sense to me. I absolutely take full responsibility for my own and my family's health. My point was that I think faulty nutrition is not the only cause of tooth decay in all cases, nor is it always going to stop it. There are other contributing factors, some of which I listed above. I think it's great to spread the word about how vital the fat-soluble nutrients are and encourage people to learn more about it before resorting to drastic dentist-recommended treatments, but nutrition is not always the only answer to every problem. I appreciate you take the time to post here, these are important pieces of the puzzle, although I don't believe they are the entire puzzle.
post #70 of 123
any suggestions for what to supplement if you can't get raw milk? we live in hawaii (just moved) where I've heard it's illegal.
post #71 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJP View Post
but nutrition is not always the only answer to every problem. I appreciate you take the time to post here, these are important pieces of the puzzle, although I don't believe they are the entire puzzle.
I have to agree with AJP here. We eat NT including the butter oil, high vitamin CLO, and nasty tasting organs. Heavy metals displace minerals in the body. Regardless of eating NT I had very little healing until I started to remove the cellular mercury from my body. Wow, did things begin to heal then! In my case all the excellent food and supplements did little good until I chelated significant amounts of mercury. After that I had truly amazing results.
post #72 of 123
Any word on what you can do when you can't tolerate any dairy?

My first two have some decay issues (and a dairy sensitivity), and I'd love to keep the baby's teeth healthy; but he's 10 months old (breastfed) and doesn't tolerate dairy at all.
I won't be doing formula, so table food suggestions (for all of us) would be great
post #73 of 123
I am not an expert but I have been told when kids cannot drink homoginized milk they may be able to tolerate raw goats milk.
post #74 of 123
Goat's milk is a no-go as well, unfortunately (Yes, even raw.)

And I just this morning discovered decalcification spots (white) on the baby's front teeth. I feel like crying.
I may start another thread, since things can get lost in such long threads, and it doesn't seem like the OP is around all that often...
post #75 of 123
subbing
post #76 of 123
I just noticed today that one of DS's teeth is a little brown. I am freaking out! Maybe I will try this stuff along with a trip to the holistic dentist.
post #77 of 123
Maybe someone in here will have the answers, I posted a seperate thread, but have not gotten any replies.

DS is a little over 2yo. At 18m he was diagnoses with multiple severe food allergies, including severe anaphylaxis allergies. He is still breastfeeding and still night nursing. Due to allergies we have eliminated all of the following out of our diet:
peanuts, tree nuts, all seeds, soy, all gluten grains, rice, both cow and goat dairy (except butter in small amounts), eggs, avacado, zucchini, eggplant, and melon.

His diet (and mine) honestly leaves alot to be desired now. He used to eat everything, but then a 2 month long elimination diet from hell and then all his favorite foods being taken away - now he is super picky. We do organic as much as we possibly can, all natural if something isn't available in organic.

He refuses to eat any veggies except carrots. He refuses most meats, except ground lamb, occasionally ground veal or buffalo. rarely I can get turkey in him. Most of his meat comes from turkey, chicken, or beef hotdogs; from corn breaded chicken nuggets, or corn breaded fish sticks. Grains are corn, millet, and quinoa. He loves potatoes. and he LOVES fruit. Honestly, fruit is a 1/3 of his diet. Not juice, just fresh fruit, dehydrated fruit, and raisins (although I have since eliminated those too for dental/cavity reasons). He drinks water or nurses. I eat everything he does, but in large quanities and much more in teh veggie department.

I take vits myself - prenatals, calcium and mag, Lglutamine, Vit C, fish oil, and probiotics. DS was taking kids chewable multivits and acidophilus. Since noticing the shadowing on his molars, I had switched to liquid vits, but they are infant vits and contain practically nothing compared to his others. I have started putting some of my calcium and mag into apple sauce for him in the AM. and we stopped the acidophilus for the time being.

Okay - there's the back story. Here is the issue.

DS was great about getting his teeth brushed until his second year molars started coming in - it hurt him, so we would brush more gently, or as much as I hate to admit it, skip it occasionally if he was in too much pain. Two months ago we started using toothpaste - before that we just did water. It is an all natural, floride free kids gel. Since his 2y molars are coming in, brushing is a battle - holding him and brushing while he screams like I am murdering him....

In the last few weeks, I noticed dark staining in the grooves of his bottom molars (first one, not the new one coming in - are these premolars?). Honestly, I just thought it was vitamin stuck in there and that we needed to brush better. But brushing is not helping. It is not getting worse, but it sint going away either. He hasn't had those chewables in over a week now.
Reading on here, I think our diet may be a huge part of the problem. Also, I noticed that three of his front top teeth have white spots on them - have for months, but I never knew what it was until I started reading here. So the white spots are early decay, and the staining *may* be cavities. We are saving up to take him to a good dentist recommended by our ped (both very pro-BFing and holistic minded). But they don't take insurance and it will be about $200 for DS to just be seen. I figure if he is seen, then I will atleast know if and where he has early decay. The dentist also routinely does a swab of the mouth and has it tested - states that certain bacteria being present in the mouth are good predictors of future decay issues - not a cause, but a good predictor. Which would fit into the whole toxic blood theory as well as the bacteria theory. It is something I am willing to do, as it is non invasive. Also DH has horrible horrible teeth (and diet!) while I have never had a single cavity in my life (and until recently a great diet).

I want to improve our diet, but with our allergy restrictions, I don't know how in the world to do that. I want to order the butter oil - but am not sure if DS will react to it or not. He can tolerate small amount of organic butter. But this is more concentrated right? any idea if I can get a sample of it? It is just really expensive to get only to find that we can not use it; especially when money is so incredibly tight around here (we are behind on bills so that we can buy DS the food he needs to eat).
Any ideas? What more can I be doing for DS?

sorry so long!
post #78 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturegirl7 View Post
Maybe someone in here will have the answers, I posted a seperate thread, but have not gotten any replies.
Where are you located?
post #79 of 123
I am in Florida - why?
post #80 of 123
Hi,

Check out the following site before you do anything www.zellies.com; the woman who put it up IS a pediatric dentist and she recommends giving Xylitol.

My son had really bad teeth 2 1/2 months ago, incomplete dental enamel the dentist called it, making Trenton prone to cavities, etc. He had $2400 worth of dental surgery to look forward to.

My mom got everyone praying and she researched on the web, so between GOD and what He led her to, we began using Xylitol.
I can truthfully say that all of my son's little cavities have remineralized - they are gone completely! And the 2 big ones he had are definitely smaller; plus the discoloration on his upper 4 front teeth is disappearing.

Fortunately for us, Trenton does chew gum and spits it out when the flavor is gone.

We also use some homeopathic remedies, such as Calcium Phosphate and Calcium Fluoride. If you have internet access go to www.elixirs.com or www.1-800homeopathy.com.

At any rate, hope this helps.

Luv2bamommy2
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