Those who DO vax... help - Page 2

[mom0810]

Originally Posted by mangosink0

Beth,

If you do Hib, I'd wait until 15 months because you'd only need 1 dose to be considered complete and protected.

Yes, but my problem/dilemma here is that Hib is most likely to occur between 6 months and one year. Why give him the vaccine at 15 months when if I wait until 1 year, he is "statistcally" not as likely to get the disease?

I should add, if I didn't before, that he is not/never will be in daycare and is still breastfeeding. I also know that Hib is more likely in kids that are in daycare and not breastfed. So he really has a much lower chance of getting it. In fact, I read somewhere that the vaccine was originally only meant for kids in daycare??? Someone smarter than me help me out on that one...

even though Hayden has none of the "risk" factors for Hib, I guess the "what-if" factor still bugs me, and since I am least scared of that vaccine, I guess it seemed like a logical place to start.

I would only do ONE Hib, anyway, because in reading the vaccine inserts, I found that ONE is usually all that is needed for immunity. My doctor will not make me do the whole series, he will do as many or as little as I wish. Since Hayden won't be in daycare, and Hib is not required for school, it won't ever matter that he only had 1, KWIM?

[alegna]

Personally I was not comfortable with the idea of giving any vaccines before two. It seemed to me that it would be impossible to know of any long-term damage unless it was severe.

-Angela

[Mommy To Baby Roni]

Posted by Dar, regarding VAERS
Some highlights from the above site:
From 1991 to 2001, there were a total of 128,717 adverse effects reported, and a total of 1,903,383,258 vaccines given. That means adverse effects were reported after .000067 (or .0067%, or fewer than 7 reported reactions per 100,000 vaccines given) of the vaccines given. By those numbers, adverse reactions to vaccines seem very rare.

The problem with this is that it's known that vaccine reactions are greatly underreported. The estimate is that only one tenth of adverse events are reported. So, while I think that it can be used to research what the possible adverse events can be when learning about the risk factors of choosing a specific vaccine, I don't think it can be used to establish vaccine reactions are low. Here is what VAERS has to say about themselves and the accuracy of using their systems as a way to calculate adverse events.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/1995AmJPubHlth85-12.pdf

It's unfortunate that there's no way for us to know the true numbers. However, the CDC also states that a person, today, is more likely to have an adverse reaction from a vaccine than to get the disease they are being vaccinated for.

Yes, but my problem/dilemma here is that Hib is most likely to occur between 6 months and one year. Why give him the vaccine at 15 months when if I wait until 1 year, he is "statistcally" not as likely to get the disease?

Hmm. I don't know what you decided to do at your appt. today, but considering your little guy is almost a year old, you are right in that he's just about out of the "danger zone".

I can understand why you and so many are fearful of pertussis. The stories are scary and scary doesn't even begin to describe a horrible experience of it being your child. But, I don't think that looking at reported numbers of cases is a reliable source of a decison. I say that because I think that pertussis is greatly underreported. So, I don't think that an area with a high number of cases is necessarily having more cases of pertussis. I know there are almost no cases reported where I live, yet I had it a few years back. I didn't know it, as neither dr. I saw suspected pertussis, and I coughed for 3 months. I think that respiratory infections are everywhere, unfortunately, and a possibility for everyone, regardless of vaccination status. And, pertussis is something that you do not hold lifelong immunity to, even if you've had the illness. I look at it as part of life that we are not going to be able to eliminate through vaccination.

[insider]

Originally Posted by Mommy To Baby Roni

The problem with this is that it's known that vaccine reactions are greatly underreported. The estimate is that only one tenth of adverse events are reported. So, while I think that it can be used to research what the possible adverse events can be when learning about the risk factors of choosing a specific vaccine, I don't think it can be used to establish vaccine reactions are low. Here is what VAERS has to say about themselves and the accuracy of using their systems as a way to calculate adverse events.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/1995AmJPubHlth85-12.pdf

Great point. Thank you for putting the VAERS information in its proper context.

[Qestia]

I've vaxed DS more than I would like to admit, but less than most kids these days. Frankly Hib is an easy one for me to turn down, because there wasn't a vax for it when I was a kid, you know?

With pertussis here in MA they require 5 shots by kindergarten... but our cases of whooping cough are occuring in fully-vaxed adolescents. What a lousy vax if it doesn't protect you after --five-- shots! Of course their answer is the new Dtap you're supposed to get every 5-10 years as an adult, frankly I think I'll take my chances.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Sorry, I didn't see this until now. I am looking for them. The problem is that there are two I recall off the top of my head and neither one of them are available online, AFAIK. I can't even find the titles - they're just referenced here and there. One is from Finland and I don't recall where the other is from - maybe Sweden. There was also one study that discussed how HIB vaccination had resulted in more strains of S. pneumoniae becoming resistant to treatment. They tried very hard not to say that Hib vaccination had caused an increase in pneumococcal disease, but that's the only possible way Hib vaccination could result in the bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics: Hib vaccination = increased pnueumococcal disease = more antibiotics given for pneumococcal disease = increased resistance. It's not like vaccinating for Hib in and of itself could cause some mutation in an entirely different bacteria. (Okay, maybe it is, but I tend to believe in the more realistic explanation of things.) I know I can find that one, but I am feeling really crappy right now, so I'll try to look for that tomorrow.

I found one that shows that vaccinating for the s. pneumo bacteria (Prevnar) increases you chances of getting staph infections.

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/CID...572/35572.html

What are the major gaps in our understanding of nontype b H. influenzae that need to be filled by future research? Additional studies are needed to improve our understanding of the microbial milieu of the mucosa and to assess the "ecological impact" of conjugate vaccines. Although vaccination with Hib conjugate vaccines does not appear to increase the risk of colonization with nontype b H. influenzae, there are few data on the effect of other vaccines. The relationship between S. pneumoniae and Staphylococcus aureus colonization is illustrative. A cross-sectional study from Israel demonstrated lower rates of nasal colonization with S. aureus among children who were colonized with S. pneumoniae serotypes included in the conjugate vaccine [12]. Among children aged 17 years who developed otitis media with spontaneous drainage after enrollment in a randomized trial, S. aureus was isolated more frequently from children who received pneumococcal conjugate vaccine than from those who received control (hepatitis A or B) vaccines [6]. Although the clinical relevance of these observations is not yet apparent, these reports highlight the complex interrelationship between colonizing microorganisms and the need to monitor the effect of vaccination on nontargeted pathogens.

[mom0810]

Update on 10 month visit

Went to the ten month visit and... no vaxes. I am still feeling really comfortable with our decision to delay... for a really long time.

I also have some interesting and fun news... today was our first visit to a homeopath! We have had this appt for over a month, and I was excited to go, just to see what he said. It was really wonderful, and he is a great guy, an MD, but also a homeopath, and it was very interesting to note the questions that he asked... things about Hayden's sleep patterns, areas of his body that were hot or cold, his skin, his temperment... things that a "regular" doctor would never notice or care about.

We did come away with a remedy for Hayden's current teething discomfort, and I came away even more secure in our choice to wait on vaccines for now. It was a really fun morning.

[Mommy To Baby Roni]

It's always comforting to find a health care provider you can trust and are comfortable with. Congrats!

[mangosink0]

Originally Posted by mom0810

Yes, but my problem/dilemma here is that Hib is most likely to occur between 6 months and one year. Why give him the vaccine at 15 months when if I wait until 1 year, he is "statistcally" not as likely to get the disease?

But if that is the way your thinking, he's 10 months old, only 2 months away from being out of the higher risk. If you thought he was highest risk from 6 months to 1 yr wouldn't you have been concerned about that vax earlier than now.

[mom0810]

I had been thinking about it, but was not concerned. What changed my mind was that ds had his first fever about a month ago, and it scared me to death thinking, "could this be....???" That's when I came back to thinking about the possibility of started him on a delayed schedule. As you can see by my sig, my research has led me to think I will not vax him at all. But, I am a first time mom and I guess I am always re-evaluating my choice. I do not want to do anything wrong!

My research continues, and I am attending a seminar on vaccines at Homefirst next month. My meeting with the homeopath yesterday did much to quell any anxiety that I had.

[tiffer23]

DS had all his 2 month shots. (I gave in to DH and the doc) He hasn't had any since. I've wanted to research it more.

I've decided that I'm going to call the Ped tomorrow to get him in for his second does of Hib & IPV. Then at 7 months, his second dose of DTaP, then at 9 months give the third doses of Hib & DTaP. I'm combining those two just so that he's not getting a shot a month for 4 months. Poor baby. Then I think we're done. Well, he'll get the Flu shot this year. We live on a college campus. Which is actually the reason I'm vaxing in the first place. Massive amount of teens, massive amount of all sorts of stuff. Blech.

(I haven't read the other responses, so... not sure if this is useless now, lol)

[mom0810]

The above is actually very similar to the schedule our family doctor recommends. He starts at 3 months with Hib and IPV, then integrates DTaP along the way. In his handout, he says "you can do the others at school time, if you wish."

He's a rare doctor, I know! They are out there, though.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Nora'sMama

Do you have a cite for this?

I still can't find the reference I already mentioned, which I know is online, but one of the studies that isn't available online without a subscription is this one:

Baer M, Vuento R, Vesikari T. Increase in bacteraemic pneumococcal infections in children. Lancet 1995;345:661.

The CDC also admits that there has been an increase in invasive disease caused by "other bacteria" since the introduction of Hib vaccine, but that there is no evidence of a causal link. Very convenient. They will never admit that there's a causal link between vaccination and ANY unintended side effects, so it's hardly compelling when they make those statements.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

I still can't find the reference I already mentioned, which I know is online, but one of the studies that isn't available online without a subscription is this one:

Baer M, Vuento R, Vesikari T. Increase in bacteraemic pneumococcal infections in children. Lancet 1995;345:661.

The CDC also admits that there has been an increase in invasive disease caused by "other bacteria" since the introduction of Hib vaccine, but that there is no evidence of a causal link. Very convenient. They will never admit that there's a causal link between vaccination and ANY unintended side effects, so it's hardly compelling when they make those statements.

There's more recent research that has established a causal link with Hib vaxing and the increase in non-vax strain invasive Hib diseases.
Of course we're about to get a new vax for those, too...so that's convenient.

They're also working on a staph vax, so I guess well be hearing a lot more about how vaxing for s.pneumo causes staph to go buck wild soon, too.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/...ph.vaccine.ap/

:
I wonder what the next one will be?