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will S.A and Grief be off limits to ads? - Page 4

post #61 of 83
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post
That's not to say that it is not possible that such ads would appear. But if they did we would certainly act quickly to remove them once we became aware of them. Google states that ads we list to remove will be pulled within two hours.

hawkfeather, what I am trying to do is consider what the implications are of what is being said and how that applies to everything on the forums. I don't find the "ads make money" comparasion a justification for applying what is suggested here to ads but not to other aspects of potential insensitivity for members that members themselves place and certainly have no reason to do so other than personal wish. MDC needs the revenue to cover costs. Let's stop turning that into an evil aim. We're not talking about lining anyone's pockets but rather keeping MDC open and running, free of charge.
I Am sorry but I do not really understand. No one has implied that members should not be held accountable for their actions and function in a respectful manner at all.. I just think it is cutting straws- when someone says your actions will hurt me and there is a rush to explain why that person MUST be hurt anyways It just doesn't add up to me.

By All means if members are being harmed by signatures and banner ads- I think something should be done and that should be addressed, I never meant to imply otherwise- I just do not see the relation in having one thig cause potential pain and another.

There are all these suggested solutions but the most obvious one would be to not have Google ads in three forums of many.
The revenue needed to run and maintain this site- will that really be impacted by *not* having the ads in three forums?
To me there is no evil in the cause and affect basics of 'needing' money to run this site. But From what I am reading the safety of the members are coming secondary, and I doubt anyone wants that.

From what you are saying- there most likely will be inapropriate ads- hopefully few- but they will mosy likely be there- and even than take two hours to be removed?

There will be kinks and bumps undoubtidly there is with any shift- I am just wondering if it is worth it if even one mother here is caused greater pain while seeking support.

Again I really appreciate you coming and chatting about this. I know some members feel like our voices wont be heard and it is in vain to try-

These ads are dynamically generated removing them from certain areas is not hard at all, I would happily volunteer my time to remove the codes-
post #62 of 83
We have said we will do all we can to monitor and filter ads. We have invited community help to do that too.

I've put forth a possible alternative for members who feel they cannot tolerate ads they see in the above mentioned forums and are willing to limit themselves to those specific forums for an ad free view. That is a more appropriate solution as it will be member specific, by request, and will protect that member from any accidental access to other parts of MDC that carry ads that could be of similar issue for them.

And if we do offer that option, no, I don't see it an issue to make such membergroup placements at a member's request, so no worries there.
post #63 of 83
Thread Starter 
I truely wish there was a way mothers could be safe and not have to be segregated. A mother in pain, any person in pain should not have to be isolated in order to feel safe.

I think it is wonderful suggestions are being made. But honeslty I feel like when posting in certain areas because of the tone, the subject matter the energy involved it is dangerous to allow potential triggers- and i do have faith they would be as limited as possible!.. but still a potential risk.

But that does not mean mommas would want no access to other forums.

Perhaps you could place a poll i nceratin areas?.. I suspect that people would just allow themselves a less safe support environment and continue having equal public access.
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

hawkfeather, what I am trying to do is consider what the implications are of what is being said and how that applies to everything on the forums. I don't find the "ads make money" comparison a justification for applying what is suggested here to ads but not to other aspects of potential insensitivity for members that members themselves place and certainly have no reason to do so other than personal wish. MDC needs the revenue to cover costs. Let's stop turning that into an evil aim. We're not talking about lining anyone's pockets but rather keeping MDC open and running, free of charge.

The whole matter of triggers is one that presents itself everytime someone posts their story. Any story could be a trigger for someone. Is it not more appropriately a matter of the individual being selective about what they read rather than a matter of us regulating the words members use to post their story? Even the titles of threads can present triggers for some. And yes, we do ask members to be sensitive about that in SA, and certainly we would remove something that we feel is simply too much to host, but just read through some of the posts and you can see the overwhelming number of threads in titles alone that are potential triggers. So I am not saying this hurt is okay because other things hurt. I'm saying let's be realistic about the whole internet experience.
I understand where you are coming from and do not oppose google ads 100%, I just don't feel they belong in the grief and abuse forums for the reasons below.

The way signatures effect members and the way an ad does are a bit different.

A signature is tiny, fairly unobtrusive, and requires more active reading.

The google ads are much harder to avoid. A banner or pop up ad is likely to be much bigger, possibly flashing, full of color and very hard to miss.
Not only are they so hard to avoid, they add insult to injury because of the way they are crafted. The grief and abuse forums should be a place where people can feel safe. Yet when someone who is emotionally vulnerable comes to share his or her thoughts, the google ad will take what is most personal and traumatic to that member by gleaning through key words in a post and then creating a "personalized" but highly impersonal ad based on those comments. It is just highly inappropriate.
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post
We have said we will do all we can to monitor and filter ads. We have invited community help to do that too.

I've put forth a possible alternative for members who feel they cannot tolerate ads they see in the above mentioned forums and are willing to limit themselves to those specific forums for an ad free view. That is a more appropriate solution as it will be member specific, by request, and will protect that member from any accidental access to other parts of MDC that carry ads that could be of similar issue for them.

And if we do offer that option, no, I don't see it an issue to make such membergroup placements at a member's request, so no worries there.
Ah, I think I understand what you were trying to say now. And... well it makes me feel punished for having had a loss.

I can have no access to other forums such as Mindful Home Management or Spirituality because I want to be able to express my loss and gain support from other members who have been through similar situations??

That just doesn't make sense to me... to in essence limit us to the sad and grieving forums ALL the time. We want them for support, and understanding... I don't think ANY parent here who frequents those forums ONLY want to go to those forums when they log in. Other forums help take the mind off the saddness and negative feelings.
post #66 of 83
Thread Starter 
Signatures are our persnoal expressions, they are form us memebrs of this site. Google ads are not.

But It has come to my direct attention that my concerns are considered "fantasy" by some of the staff here, I can not set myself up to be hurt like this. I thank you Cynthia for hearing me (us) out either way!!!

It is simple to leave the ads out of certain forums, it is being asked out right that the staff here do so.
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkfeather View Post
It has come to my attention that my concerns are considered "fantasy" by some of the staff here, I can not set myself up to be hurt like this.

It is simple to leave the ads out of certain forums, it is being asked out right that the staff here do so.


I've been lurking in this thread but haven't contributed my thoughts since I don't need to use the abuse/loss support threads. I have to agree that it would be nice to see those places as safe havens for mama's in need of them. Where these mama's can focus on the forum rather than be distracted and disturbed by ads attempting to sell them things. It would be a charitable act to do so but not one it seems will come to fruit.

Hawkfeather. Your intentions are so good.
post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by super kitty View Post



Hawkfeather. Your intentions are so good.
I so agree.
post #69 of 83
Thread Starter 
That is very sweet thank you!

I am wondering if we could maybe hear point blank why there is such opposition to not having the ads in these areas?

Obviously some staff feel that I am trying to paint MDC as some capitalistic site- but that as never my intention what so ever.

I have asked Cynthia to remove me from the site- after exchanging emails with Peggy O'Mara and having words like "ridiculous" and "fantasies" used in relation to these concerns I just can not respect the goal here.

Thanks again to Cynthia and all the mommas!!
post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkfeather View Post
That is very sweet thank you!

I am wondering if we could maybe hear point blank why there is such opposition to not having the ads in these areas?

Obviously some staff feel that I am trying to paint MDC as some capitalistic site- but that as never my intention what so ever.

I have asked Cynthia to remove me from the site- after exchanging emails with Peggy O'Mara and having words like "ridiculous" and "fantasies" used in relation to these concerns I just can not respect the goal here.

Thanks again to Cynthia and all the mommas!!


They used those words in regards to your CONCERN over this matter??

I knew straight off reading your posts that you have no way indicated that MDC is trying to capitalize from any of it!!
post #71 of 83
Thread Starter 
well perhaps i wasn't careful enough in my emails to Peggy?.. I tried.

and I shared a link to this thread. But yes those were the words.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkfeather View Post
I am wondering if we could maybe hear point blank why there is such opposition to not having the ads in these areas?
I'm guessing they want to place the ads so why not everywhere? I'm guessing they think if they don't in one (or three) places why would it stop there or other members will want ads to not be here or there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkfeather View Post
I have asked Cynthia to remove me from the site- after exchanging emails with Peggy O'Mara and having words like "ridiculous" and "fantasies" used in relation to these concerns I just can not respect the goal here.
This is quite shocking and even distressing to hear. I hope you don't leave. Afterall you can't make change in something if you aren't around to do it. Stay and spread the word....
post #73 of 83
Well, I emailed a thread from PABL to myself, and ended up with urn and cremation ads. It's neither ridiculous nor a fantasy that that would hurt a mother who just had a loss.
post #74 of 83
Thread Starter 
i think the ridiculous fantasy was to be heart broken about this matter.. or to falsely think that MDC wants money.

I already asked to be removed.. I am not even sure MDC does that to be honest.. but As far as I see the decsion has been made and the option being offered is to be isolated from the rest of the board.. until you can *handle* the ads in the support forums.

I saw Cynthia really trying here.. but The opposition alone and the laguage directed at me abtou this all was just to similar to everything else in life I have tried to avoid as a momma- as a woman.
The choice to leave feels sad but rigth to me!!!!
post #75 of 83
I dont want to be isolated!!!

I dont want to feel punished!!

I feel punished ENOUGH that my son was taken from me!!!

I really am not down with the isolation idea until "I get used to it" in regards to ads that may pop up like cremation, urns, and caskets!

For cripes sake...:
post #76 of 83
hopefully this thread will result in some changes... which I hope will be taking out the google ads for the mentioned forums....
post #77 of 83
I've been thinking about this for a while.... And while it isn't something Mothering has to do, it's something I'd assume Mothering would want to do. It's the considerate thing. If I met a mother who was grieving over the loss of a child, I would want to do everything in my power to make her life as simple and as joyful (if that's possible) as it could be. I would be careful with the topics I brought up, the way I worded things, etc. And I assume any mother would do the same.

I assume a site celebrating mothers and named mothering.com would also do the same.

I certainly understand trying to make ends meet - running a home-based business has taught me the importance of that - but there are, in my opinion, higher priorities, and comforting those who desperately need comfort ranks well above money. I would do my darnedest to find another way to make the money I needed.

It occurred to me, though, that there will likely be very few users clicking on ads in those forums, anyway. The forums simply don't lend themselves to encouraging materialism of any sort. I know that the last thing I want to do after reading about a mother's tragic loss is to click on an advertisement - for anything. When I'm looking at the diapering section or babywearing or learning at home, yes - but not a grief and loss forum. That would just feel wrong to me. (And though I'm under 500 posts, I'm assuming it would feel wrong in the surviving abuse forum, as well.) I don't think I'm alone in this. It's just human nature.

There's a trade-off, I guess. The money that Google Ads in those few forums might make (and I'm betting it will be proportionately less than the other forums) weighed against the continued image of mothering.com as a safe and nurturing place - a place that values its members and their situations.

So, while I understand it's not something that every website out there would do, I have to admit that it's something I expect from MDC. I guess I simply hold MDC to a higher standard - a standard more in line with my own. It's why I keep coming back.
post #78 of 83
This whole situation just upsets me. I can't believe that Mothering, is selling themselves out and having google ads. It goes against everything they believe in and I think it's foolish to believe that these things won't come up and negatively affect grieving mothers that come here for SUPPORT. YES, it will make you more money, but I'm SHOCKED that Mothering is *OK with* losing members, offending and deeply hurting grieving mothers, and even temporarily having ads that may support and encourage mothers to formula feed, purchase a crib, hell maybe even circumsize!!! But it's ok ladies, the ad will be removed within *2* hours AFTER a mod is notified. NO biggie.

I really just don't know what to say besides I can't believe they are willing to have these ads. It's like they are almost betraying themselves and everything they stand for. Which in turn, makes me feel like being betrayed. I come here for support, not to *temporarily* see formula ads, casket and urn ads, or abortion clinc ads.

If Mothering wants to protect their members they should have an option where we can turn the ads off. From the entire site. Maybe we will have to turn them off every time we come to Mothering, that way sometimes we would be too busy to turn them off and Mothering can still bank on our forgetfullness. But at least do us that much respect and make it an option. PLEASE.
post #79 of 83
Hawkfeather I'm aghast at what has been said to you. Although, at the same time, sadly not surprised... :

For everyone else: I use a plugin called "adblock" along with Firefox (if you're not using firefox yet, you should be!!). I have not seen a google ad on any forum, website or otherwise in months. I just told Adblock never to display them.
http://adblock.mozdev.org/
post #80 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrunchyKat View Post
This whole situation just upsets me. I can't believe that Mothering, is selling themselves out and having google ads. It goes against everything they believe in and I think it's foolish to believe that these things won't come up and negatively affect grieving mothers that come here for SUPPORT. YES, it will make you more money, but I'm SHOCKED that Mothering is *OK with* losing members, offending and deeply hurting grieving mothers, and even temporarily having ads that may support and encourage mothers to formula feed, purchase a crib, hell maybe even circumsize!!! But it's ok ladies, the ad will be removed within *2* hours AFTER a mod is notified. NO biggie.

I really just don't know what to say besides I can't believe they are willing to have these ads. It's like they are almost betraying themselves and everything they stand for. Which in turn, makes me feel like being betrayed. I come here for support, not to *temporarily* see formula ads, casket and urn ads, or abortion clinc ads.

If Mothering wants to protect their members they should have an option where we can turn the ads off. From the entire site. Maybe we will have to turn them off every time we come to Mothering, that way sometimes we would be too busy to turn them off and Mothering can still bank on our forgetfullness. But at least do us that much respect and make it an option. PLEASE.
and disposable diapers. It's like sending the whole NFL out the window.
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