The Bumbo Baby Sitter (baby chair) - Page 8

[momileigh]

Originally Posted by Joannarachel

And BITE ME to whomever compared this to 'CIO'. Just bite me. :

I need to learn to be this concise.

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I am of the belief that if someone in your community (any community) continues to be dishonest or misleading then they should be called on it. They shouldn't be allowed to continue it just in the name of being nice.

[nonconformnmom]

It's not my place to speak for MITB, but since it's really unfair to continue attacking her while she's obviously not available to respond to the attacks, I think the appropriate thing to do is to stop and give her a chance.

However, in reading the containment thread MITB referenced, I do see where she posted that due to her involvement with CPS, she does have things in her house like playpen, crib, stroller, etc. but that they mainly just sit there collecting dust and clothes.

[Chronic Chrissy]

: Here we go again attacking other members because they don't CONFORM(yes) to all AP techniques and beliefs.

I see this place as a tool to work on the AP that we do practise, as well as educate others and ourselves in regaurds to mainstream tools and techniques and how to use them most effectivly without abusing them or causing damage. We should not criticize a member for making a choice that they believed was best for them and their family.

I've written and erased so many things already because they just aren't coming out right, so I'll just get to the point because at this point I've already wasted 30 minutes.
Let's make that 45 min...
60minutes but this is the best way I know to put it please forgive me if I've offended some I don't mean to target this is all general.


We all have a common cause here, we want to bettter our childrens lives and parent in a way that we can say "I did my best for her/him the best way I know how". One thing I know is that if my child were screaming and crying and I've tried everything and notheing works, then a friend suggests a vibrating chair and it works to lull my child to sleep after 30 sec, I'm going to use this resource when I need to.(this actually happened at a friends house) I think that our children, as young as they are, are intitled to choice and preference to a certain degree, it's their right to individuality. If my DD likes one toy over another and it's plastic, it doesn't mean that she will like only plastic toys, it just means she likes that toy and you should develope the enviroment to teach her that her opinions and prefences are valued and considered. If a baby wants to sit before they can and loves her bumbo, then let her have a good time in it and have a good time with her, show her that you are always there and available to meet her needs AND WANTS, even if what she wants isn't what you want. Show her/him that they can depend on you to accept them the way they are. If they like the swing, let them swing, if they like to be rocked rock them. If they like the stroller because you can hang toys from it to play with do it, if they want to be worn facing out instead of in I let them so why wouldn't I let them make use of other joys I can accommidate?

We all parent differently and make acceptions to our original veiws to fit our evolving family as well as society(carseats in moving vehicles), they need to learn of both worlds, how they interact, clash, balance eachother, and tear eachother apart.

[momileigh]

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom

It's not my place to speak for MITB, but since it's really unfair to continue attacking her while she's obviously not available to respond to the attacks, I think the appropriate thing to do is to stop and give her a chance.

However, in reading the containment thread MITB referenced, I do see where she posted that due to her involvement with CPS, she does have things in her house like playpen, crib, stroller, etc. but that they mainly just sit there collecting dust and clothes.

The thing is, I don't think anyone wants to judge someone for having that stuff in their house, whether its a plastic bottle or a crib or whatever. She isn't being "attacked" for having that stuff, and she shouldn't feel the need to defend having that stuff in her house. She is only being called on the carpet for coming in here and saying that "plastic and containers are big no-no's" (a rather high-horse statement IMO) when clearly not even she lives without such things.

I hope she'll take the "attacks" as more of a ribbing than anything else... at least, I hope they were all given in that spirit, and not a "crucify the mama" spirit. My contribution (busted!) was certainly intended in a friendly-ribbing "Boo-yah" kind of way.

The only thing she might feel the need to do is come back and say something like, "Well, I guess I'm not plastic-free or container-free, and what I meant to say is we try not to use plastic as much as possible, and we do without containers most of the time, so we don't feel the need to use a bumbo. Sorry if I came across as holier-than-thou about plastics and containers, and I also realize that bumbos are foam, not plastic."

[runes]

once again, the cognitive dissonance and rationalization is transparent.


since when did restricting the number of plastic or not using baby containment devices become the hallmark of "acting superior"?

oh, it happened when it caused YOU to FEEL inferior. and then come back and bash those mamas that made you feel that way.

nice.

[Joannarachel]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

once again, the cognitive dissonance and rationalization is transparent.


since when did restricting the number of plastic or not using baby containment devices become the hallmark of "acting superior"?

oh, it happened when it caused YOU to FEEL inferior. and then come back and bash those mamas that made you feel that way.

nice.

I think it's pretty clear from the post that the information wasn't provided in an innocent tone, but a condescending tone. I don't feel inferior, because I don't believe I have done anything wrong. But I do believe MITB intended to condescend.

[runes]

Originally Posted by North_Of_60

And let her "CIO"? The I'd REALLY be the worlds worst mother. LOL. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. Let's recap, shall we?

Crying = BAD. Never, ever let a baby cry if you have the means to prevent it.

Bumbo = BAD. You'll end up with a developmentally compromised child with bad hips and a bad back. Not to mention the fact that you should never put your child down, I mean, that's why they have water slings, right? You can sling your child in the shower, on the toilet, put them on your back while you cook, while you eat, while you clean, etc. Problem solved, right?

Come on people. Which is more important, a happy baby who isn't screaming and causing "irreparable emotional damage", or sitting in a freaking bumbo for 5 minutes while I wipe my butt?

The REALITY of the situation is that not everyone has the support network in place to never rely on a less then natural, ergonomically correct, totally organic baby product. I suppose I could do like my early cave dwelling ancestors and cover some logs with a bear skin hide and sit her up in that.. Nor is everyone in the physical shape to sling a child 24/7. I have to make compromises for my health. If I sling her 24/7 then we don't sleep together. I have to prioritize how I raise my daughter and evaluate which "necessities" are the MOST necessary. Quit frankly, I think nursing is the number 1 biggest necessity. If I am too sore and my back is flaring up it is simply too painful to lay with her at night so she can eat.

So yeah, anyone who wants to give me the "you can live without a bumbo" crap can bite me. It was a necessary evil, and to this day it remains the ONE and ONLY "baby containing object" that she never fought to get out, screamed when I put her in, or otherwise hated. It was needed. Period.

And with that said, I am forever done on this topic. To all those who DO have the support, and ARE capable of holding your child 24/7, ENJOY it, not everyone is that fortunate!

your "bite me" comment stands out, because you lash out in one sentence and then in the next say that it was a "necessary evil".

after reading about some of your health and support issues in this thread and others, it does become apparent that you might have been in need of something to place your daughter in for short periods of time. fully acknowledged that in your case the bumbo was the right choice for you and your family. i completely believe you when you stated in the past that your dd is only in it for short periods of time. but can you agree that the bumbo is not the be-all end-all must have baby device that it is often touted to be? i agree that given no other (healthier) options, that it might be of use in certain situations such as yours but i firmly believe that it doesn't belong on every baby's gift registry.

the other thing that i am quite disappointed in is your assumptions that all of us lucky non-bumbo using mothers are bonbon eating sahm's that have hired help or family close by and hold their content babies all day, the birds are chirping the angels are singing etc etc etc. oh, and we have superiority complexes.

in the interest of full disclosure and honesty...i will tell you that i don't know what it's like to go to the bathroom while caring for a young infant. would you like to know why? because for most of the time from when dd was 2 weeks old until she was 5 months old, i had a urinary catheter because my bladder was torn during my horribly interventive birth. i had to have surgery to correct it and at one point during that five month period, i actually had not just one but TWO catheters coming out of my body (if you must know...a suprapubic AND a foley). so i didn't have to go to pee in the sense that most if not all of you know it...but i did have to go and empty that bag. depending upon whether i was well hydrated and if i was wearing the much smaller but more discreet leg bag, sometimes it was every 20-30 minutes. it was a nightmare that i wouldn't wish upon anybody.

after the catheters were removed, i was so relieved to be able to actually sit down and pee (i will NEVER take that simple act for granted again!. after that point, i did bring dd into the bathroom with me and she sat on my lap while i used the toilet. before that, when the catheters were still in and 'peeing' was a stand-up, two hand operation to empty the bag, i brought our jogging stroller into our house and placed it at the door of our bathroom so that dd would be right there. i did my own risk benefit analysis of what would be the most appropriate and safe place to put dd in those moments when i needed to take care of myself, that was it. i didn't feel compelled to go out and purchase something special in order to do this, and also with knowing about the alignment issues with the bumbo, it never was an option for me. so yes, i do feel like it's entirely possible, even in dire situations, to not have to use certain baby containment devices. because i lived it. and i won't tell anyone to bite me because, well...that's just plain rude.

[Chronic Chrissy]

When people feel attacked and ganged up on they often feel defensive. And considering that communication through computers is the most unnatural form of communication(but let's not get into that) it is often misinterpreted and understood in a way intended by the writer. Believe me I know once I was in North's postion while she and others ganged up on me, but no hard feelings. What I'm trying to get at is that different people react in different ways, and I can see how someone can feel attacked when there are alot of people are saying that an action they took under certain circumstances was bad for their child. SO she defends herself and lashes out, now the another handful instist on targeting her more. She was mad and got harsh, it's over. It's hard to communicate our feelings, and they are often taken the wrong way, she just wanted everyone to back off and to accept that she is different and it works for her, that doesn't mean she thinks it's best for you.

Have some compassion for everyone and accept that with the stess of raising children(yes it is stressful as fun as it is, even with easy babies) sometimes sore spots are hit that result in some much needed venting.

[momileigh]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

i didn't feel compelled to go out and purchase something special in order to do this, and also with knowing about the alignment issues with the bumbo, it never was an option for me. so yes, i do feel like it's entirely possible, even in dire situations, to not have to use certain baby containment devices. because i lived it.

I'm kinda butting in here, but:

Kidspiration, I get that you think there is an alignment issue with the Bumbo. And you feel you are uniquely qualified, or at least especially qualified, to explain that and express your concerns. I think that's cool, it is certainly something you should share. I don't agree with it, but I value your opinion.

It seems that you are not against "all baby containers" but you just feel this particular one isn't a good one. Fine. Can't we keep it at that? Why imply that anyone who uses a Bumbo felt COMPELLED to go out and get one? Isn't it possible that some people preferred the look of it, feel of it, position, price, size, versatility, etc? There were times when my dd would have been very annoyed to be strapped into your magical jogging stroller. You've heard all the reasons that people like their Bumbos. You feel the alignment issue overrides all those reasons. Great. But please allow for the fact that not everyone is going to buy your theory, and it doesn't necessarily cancel out the reasons that people do use Bumbos.

I agree with your sentiment that Bumbos are not something that everyone needs or babies are going to be deprived without. I don't hear anyone actually saying that here. But if someone is considering buying one, or if they were given one and are wondering whether to try it or not, or they are currently using one, they may want to hear all sides. It doesn't mean we are all mindless Dumbo Defenders who will go down fighting until every baby has a Bumbo to sit in come hell or high water.

And you know what? I've managed to survive without a jogging stroller. Never owned one. Never felt compelled to go out and spend that kind of money on one. My kids have never, ever been strapped into a jogging stroller, and probably never will be. Do I get a cookie for that?

[nonconformnmom]

ChronicChrissy wrote: What I'm trying to get at is that different people react in different ways, and I can see how someone can feel attacked when there are alot of people are saying that an action they took under certain circumstances was bad for their child.

Are you seriously trying to say that the members who use and advocate for the Bumbo seat are the ones that are being attacked on this thread?! : You really need to go back and read the entire thread. Count the posts that are in favor of the seat and those that are not. Then look at the posts that attack people personally, and tell me which category they fit into.

[momileigh]

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom

Are you seriously trying to say that the members who use and advocate for the Bumbo seat are the ones that are being attacked on this thread?! : You really need to go back and read the entire thread. Count the posts that are in favor of the seat and those that are not. Then look at the posts that attack people personally, and tell me which category they fit into.

I don't see any of the bumbo users implying that they are better parents because they use a bumbo. That's the difference that's got people upset.

[Chronic Chrissy]

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom

Are you seriously trying to say that the members who use and advocate for the Bumbo seat are the ones that are being attacked on this thread?! : You really need to go back and read the entire thread. Count the posts that are in favor of the seat and those that are not. Then look at the posts that attack people personally, and tell me which category they fit into.

I'm not saying the people, I'm saying this person may feel like she is being attacked inadvertantly by others posts.

[nonconformnmom]

One of my biggest frustrations about mainstream message boards is that whenever I say that I breastfeed my baby, formula feeding moms get upset because they think that I am implying that I am a better parent. I wasn't; I was simply stating the decision I have made for my family.

The posts on this thread that are critical of the bumbo are just that, being critical of the product. There are many threads here on MDC that are critical of products. Saying that someone doesn't see the value in using a product does not mean that the person thinks they are a better parent than someone else.

[gnutter]

I think that it would be fair to say that anyone who is on this thread and cares this much about their babies development, alignment, and exposure to plastics is a better than "good enough" parent. Everyone here has put more thought into how they want their children to be raised than most people I know. I have a son who is now 15-he used a WALKER!! GASP! he is now 6ft 2 and walks and runs fine-people point out all the time how graceful he is despite being tall and lanky-this is not because of the walker though, obviously.
Many of these things that we really worry about now don't have long term effects the way WE HERE use them. We here at mdc for the most part try to raise our children as free range as possible. everyone needs a little crutch-I have a swing, and a bumbo seat-I use a stroller sometimes. But the thing is that we all care enough to think about it before we sit our babies down and ignore them all day. IF you can take a few mintues to wipe your butt because of the bumbo then hey-that is great-we all need a clean butt. The baby swing has meant thatat 2:00 am I can sleep on the couch because it has lulled ds back to sleep when I was too tired to keep walking him around.

We all do what we can-and shouldn't be ashamed of what we do-we are here because we all wnat to share info about raising our babies in the best way we can. That speaks volumes for the kind of mothers we are.

[momileigh]

Originally Posted by nonconformnmom

One of my biggest frustrations about mainstream message boards is that whenever I say that I breastfeed my baby, formula feeding moms get upset because they think that I am implying that I am a better parent. I wasn't; I was simply stating the decision I have made for my family.

The posts on this thread that are critical of the bumbo are just that, being critical of the product. There are many threads here on MDC that are critical of products. Saying that someone doesn't see the value in using a product does not mean that the person thinks they are a better parent than someone else.

If you go to a thread debating whether to buy organic food or not, and you say, "Anything nonorganic is a huge no-no for me," that is going to come across as condescending.

If you go to a thread where people want to find out about homeschooling vs. private school, and you say, "Anything institutional is a huge no-no for me," that is going to sound condescending.

If you go to a cooking thread where some people say they sometimes use pancake mix, and you say, "Anything pre-mixed is a huge no-no for me," that is going to sound like an attack. And any of those comments are going to make people who do those "no-no's" WANT to catch you in the act of using something nonorganic, institutional, or pre-mixed! Can't you see that?

Of course MDC is going to be a safe place regarding breastfeeding and no one is going to get offended over that here. But the last time I checked, bfing and using (or not using) something made of plastic (or foam) weren't exactly equal values in this community.

ETA I agree that we should wait for MITB to come back before there are pages and pages about her post for her to catch up on so I'm going to leave for a while.

[runes]

Originally Posted by momileigh

I'm kinda butting in here, but:

Kidspiration, I get that you think there is an alignment issue with the Bumbo. And you feel you are uniquely qualified, or at least especially qualified, to explain that and express your concerns. I think that's cool, it is certainly something you should share. I don't agree with it, but I value your opinion.

It seems that you are not against "all baby containers" but you just feel this particular one isn't a good one. Fine. Can't we keep it at that? Why imply that anyone who uses a Bumbo felt COMPELLED to go out and get one? Isn't it possible that some people preferred the look of it, feel of it, position, price, size, versatility, etc? There were times when my dd would have been very annoyed to be strapped into your magical jogging stroller. You've heard all the reasons that people like their Bumbos. You feel the alignment issue overrides all those reasons. Great. But please allow for the fact that not everyone is going to buy your theory, and it doesn't necessarily cancel out the reasons that people do use Bumbos.

I agree with your sentiment that Bumbos are not something that everyone needs or babies are going to be deprived without. I don't hear anyone actually saying that here. But if someone is considering buying one, or if they were given one and are wondering whether to try it or not, or they are currently using one, they may want to hear all sides. It doesn't mean we are all mindless Dumbo Defenders who will go down fighting until every baby has a Bumbo to sit in come hell or high water.

And you know what? I've managed to survive without a jogging stroller. Never owned one. Never felt compelled to go out and spend that kind of money on one. My kids have never, ever been strapped into a jogging stroller, and probably never will be. Do I get a cookie for that?

i'm not understanding. magical baby stroller? where did you get that from?

who's giving out cookies?

thinly veiled hostility is still...well...hostile.

i'm sticking around because i love this community, and i WILL be here to objectively discuss both the pros and the cons of certain devices such as bumbos, bjorns, walkers, jumpers, exersaucers etc etc. i've done my best to maintain civility, honesty and to present my view NOT primarily as an ap parent, but as a mother who happens to have experience in issues pertaining to child development, more specifically, gross motor development. i admit at times i do get passionate because this subject is near and dear to my heart. but i've never claimed that i am a better mother or expect "cookies" for the choices that i make. i have no need to flex my muscles, cry crunchier-than-thou and compare my parenting choices to others on an internet message board, nor do i derive any sort of satisfaction or personal gratification from that. if you do not like my input and contributions to the discussions at hand, put me on your ignore list.

me? i like to hear all sides on an issue. sometimes, especially here on mdc i read about perspectives that i might never have thought of. i've also read about topics that have made me uncomfortable, for which i always end up being grateful for because it helps to expand my frame of reference. but damned if i'm going to bury my own head in the sand for fear of learning that it's possible that some of the choices that i might make as a parent can be questionable. i prefer to live my life with eyes wide open. if i can help parents do that in the areas that i feel i might be somewhat qualified to comment upon then i'm going to do it. if, in learning about the flip side of the coin, it allows parents to make FULLY INFORMED and conscious decisions in their life, then my job is done.

[~Ryleigh's Mommy~]

Ok, I wasn't expecting that kind of reaction to my post, so I went back and reread what I wrote. You are right, and it did sound condescending. Please accept my apologies. I did not mean for it so sound how you all took it. Let me try to explain better the two things that I wrote that ticked people off:
The part about the bumbo not being necessary: trying to think of how to word this better......Ok, this was mainly a 'defensive' commment. All I was trying to say was that just like you all who did not like being told that your child was being harmed by being put in a bumbo, I did not like the idea that because I am a 'single' mother, that my baby suffers when I have to go to the bathroom or eat etc because I do not have a bumbo to put her in (ie the comments about putting them on the floor for them to cry etc). My baby HATES being on the floor. That is why I have a bouncy seat to put her down in when I need to. I do not sling her 24/7 (in fact, I did not even have a sling until she was 2 months old) but I also do not just abandon her in some uncomfortable place for her to scream either. (See what I'm saying?) Yes, I use a bouncy compared to a bumbo, because the bouncy cradles her and supports her neck, back, and head, and doesn't lock her hips, while still allowing her to sit up like the bumbo does. Same with the Boppy pillow when she got older. I never just laid her down and let her cry like people were insinuating about people who did not use a bumbo for such times.
I didn't mean that you were a bad mother for using a bumbo, as I made clear with this statement (which people chose not to acknowledge):

Originally Posted by ~Ryleigh's Mommy~

I have nothing against people who use bumbos, and I'm not trying to bash you

Just that I was also not a bad mother for NOT using one, like was earlier implied.

The part about the mainstream board: I was NOT equating bumbo seats to CIO!!! The only thing I was saying, was that I don't like the reasoning that because your child isn't dead or maimed, that it is good for them. For instance, I have no problem with people who decide to vaccinate or not vaccinate because they did the research and decided that that was the best thing for their child. But it bothers me when people say, "well I vax my child, and they're not crippled!" or "Well, I didn't vax, and they are still alive!" Or on the mainstream boards, when moms say "my kid cries herself to sleep every night, and they still love me!" Now if someone said "I did cio bc I tried every technique possible, I was dead on my feet and it was interfering with my daytime parenting" That would be more acceptable then "I did it, and they're ok!"
Get what I mean? Also, that something is good for them just because they like it. Many kids like candy, but it doesn't mean it is good for them. Are you a bad parent, or will they be doomed if you give them candy in moderation? NO! But it doesn't mean that it is good for them or they are missing out if they don't have it.

I am very very sorry that some of you took my post as you did. I will say it a 3rd time, just in case anyone missed it: I do not think that if you use a bumbo you are a bad mother!! I will not judge you either way! The only thing I have against them, is that they can be detrimental to their spine etc. But if you use one in moderation, because you feel that the benefits outweigh the detriments, hey, thats cool with me too!
Please accept my apologies:

[runes]

Originally Posted by momileigh

If you go to a thread debating whether to buy organic food or not, and you say, "Anything nonorganic is a huge no-no for me," that is going to come across as condescending.

If you go to a thread where people want to find out about homeschooling vs. private school, and you say, "Anything institutional is a huge no-no for me," that is going to sound condescending.

If you go to a cooking thread where some people say they sometimes use pancake mix, and you say, "Anything pre-mixed is a huge no-no for me," that is going to sound like an attack. And any of those comments are going to make people who do those "no-no's" WANT to catch you in the act of using something nonorganic, institutional, or pre-mixed! Can't you see that?

Of course MDC is going to be a safe place regarding breastfeeding and no one is going to get offended over that here. But the last time I checked, bfing and using (or not using) something made of plastic (or foam) weren't exactly equal values in this community.

ETA I agree that we should wait for MITB to come back before there are pages and pages about her post for her to catch up on so I'm going to leave for a while.

in the scenarios that you describe, i don't find those comments attacking or condescending at all. it is an opinion. ok, a bit curt and maybe not so helpful in the edification department, as i would want to know WHY to learn their perspectives, but i don't sense an attitude with those statements at all.

now...to say for example "anything premixed is a huge no-no to me and any mother who chooses to feed their children something from a box isn't fit to have children" is confrontational, rude and condescending. but if someone says "anything premixed is a huge no-no for me because processed food has so many chemicals in it that could potentially be dangerous for children to ingest"...that's informational, the rationale is clear, there is no judgement. then all of a sudden a mom who feed their child premixed food reads that and thinks "hmmm...i feed my children processed food, and this mom is saying that i'm putting them in danger and how dare she say that, who does she think she is, that know-it-all, self righteous b!tch, she thinks she's a better mother than me!"...EVEN THOUGH that was neither stated NOR implied.

then she posts "well MY baby LOVES premixed food, of course i only give it to him once in a while and he just gobbles it up and is so happy about it and he's FINE. how do you get through your life without eating processed food? for all of you moms out there who cook from scratch for your babies all the time, BITE me."

THAT, in a nutshell, is what happened in this thread.

[OnTheFence]

Originally Posted by Joannarachel

I think it's pretty clear from the post that the information wasn't provided in an innocent tone, but a condescending tone. I don't feel inferior, because I don't believe I have done anything wrong. But I do believe MITB intended to condescend.

I am proud to own plastic baby toys. I love Fisher Price! Graco! etc. I have baby "containment" devices and don't mind using them. I have a large family that has to be looked after and fed, and sometimes I need both hands and I don't necessarily want my child on the floor. My kids enjoyed johnny jumpers, bouncers, and swings. I don't feel inferior for using these items, nor do I think using them makes me or anyone else a bad parent.