Why are people pressuring me to 'wean' my dd, 6, from my presence? - Page 3

[Roar]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

That is part of who I am as individual and I do not expect or think that other moms are or should be this way, it is part of who I am though.
I have relationships with family and often chat with neighbors, just as my kids do. My dear sister is soooo an extrovert and she frequently fills me up with almost more chat than I can take. I don't feel lacking beacuse I am not part of a sports team or a group of some kind, it just isn't what I prefer.

From this what messages do you think your daughter is getting about: 1. Moms having adult interests and commitments that are totally separate from children? 2. The role of friendships in a person's life? If she never has any exposure to the idea that you would go out with friends or go and help a friend who needs it, what is she learning about what it means to have your own friends? 3. The role of community - seeing parents involved in organizations, classes.

For me it is important that a child gets a sense of their parent as a separate being who existed before they did and has friends, interests, etc. that go beyond the child. It can be a huge burden for a child to carry to know they are not just the center of their parent's world but the whole of it.

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I did say this in a previous post, I have several times spoken to her about brownies, 4-H, sports, and dance. And yes the girl knows from other kids as well that they are out there. She has several friends who participate in activities and sports and talks with her about them. She just doesn't seem interested for herself.

Take this for whatever it is worth, but I think it is expecting a lot of a kid to have the imagination to figure out if it is something they want to do. This can be hard for kids who have already had class or group experiences. We've seen with our son that sometimes we ask "do you want to do this activity?" and he's really without an idea. If he's never observed that type of class and hasn't engaged in the activity before how on earth would he know if he wants to do it?

To me it seems rather impossible when a kid has never had the experience of being separate from mom and being in a group that they would have the ability to imagine what it would be like and to ask for the activity. Also, she's not seeing modeled that you are involved with anything outside of the home right? And, if she's at all perceptive she's probably figured out you are really uncomfortable with it too.

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I honestly don't get what she is lacking that is oh so detrimental because she isn't in one of these groups at the ripe old age of six. Or is it more that just being around dear old mom so often is detrimantal? I imagine she will find interest in something if I keep offering things.

As I mentioned in my post I don't think you need to start with a group necessarily. If a child is willing to try, I think it is important to start by this age looking at possibilities for independent experiences.

I'm sure this isn't a significant consideration for all people, but I did some thinking when my child was younger about the need to not be the only person of significance in his life. A couple of my close friends lost their mothers when they were very young. I imagine if a child has never been separate for mom (even to be with their other parent on a regular basis) it would add to the trauma. I'm aware that things can happen in life. I know when I had a period where I was sick I was very grateful that my child already had the experience of separating comfortably rather than trying to learn about that during a time of trauma.

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

Yes, I agree that there is something special about their relationships with other adults. I just don't understand why those relationships are perceived to be any less because I have been present with my children as those relationships have been fostered with friends and family. I'm not sure how my being in the same house or vicinity isn't allowing them to have special relationships with other adults.

It may be hard to understand without having had the experience, but it is different when the parent isn't there. For a child who is ready, it can be a great feeling of confidence to know they were able to have an experience that was just their own. It can be fun to be able to be excited about having stories to tell mom or dad about that and to feel that they had time out on their own. It is sad to me that a kid would be denied that experience.

I've noticed sometimes AP parents have difficulty transitioning from the baby and toddler times of intense need from their children. It can become a habit to think that the world will collapse if you aren't there or that your child will be devastated without you there every minute or that you need to be in the middle between them and the world. It is a natural reaction because in the early days this is the role parents need to take. The question is how do you at some point turn that down a bit and let your kids spread their wings a bit and trust that the attachment won't fall apart?

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I honestly do not think my dd is getting any of these unintentional messages and they are not there, that's for sure.

Do you think at any point if you continue on the current path - dd with you 24/7, no independent activities, etc. that she may get some of those messages? I've read the suggestion that goes something like "children are good observers but poor interpreters". Kids notice stuff but often they have really inaccurate ideas about what it means or it may mean something totally different to them.

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

As a matter of fact I think they know I do hold trust with other adults. We often talk to perfect strangers together and them alone, while I watch from afar. They do know they can ask others for help (because they do, even in my presence). My six year old daughter questioning my sense of her maturity? Wow I don't see that either.

Okay, then what is the bad thing that would happen if she was at Brownie's for 45 minutes once without you and it turned out that it wasn't her cup of tea?

Do you think it is possible that a child could conclude that they are only safe and okay when their parent is watching because their parent makes a point to always be watching? Is that something a child could think in your opinion?

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I am not about to force her into some activity and coerce her into staying because of fear that she needs it and should do it.

Has she said "I don't want to go to Brownie's?" "Don't make me be in that dance class?"

[mammal_mama]

Miss Ruby, I honestly don't see how anyone could see your hesitance about leaving your daughter before she's ready as your idea of being "committed to attachment parenting." Especially after I read your second post and saw that your daughter really wasn't asking to do any of this stuff, she's quite happy with how you guys are doing things right now. You're committed to HER; you've already said that if she wanted to do stuff without you, you'd find a way to make it happen.

The way I look at it, someday I'll have plenty of time to get together with girlfriends for an adult lunch: right now I get together with friends in one home or the other, or we meet at the park -- it's called nurturing our friendships while being there for our kids. My husband and I will someday have heaps of one-on-one time; I'll also have more money to buy stuff for myself which will make all those lone shopping trips more fun.

Right now I want to enjoy the joys that are only little for a short time, the joys that will all too soon be ready and eager to dive into the great big world; right now I'm the main person they want to be with (as well as Daddy), and I'm not in such a hurry to move them through this time. This doesn't mean I'll hold them back when THEY hear that urge to venture out, because my attachment to them is infused with a desire to help them live in freedom.

I sense that you want freedom for your precious ones, too. You're not trying to prove your committment to attachment parenting; you're listening to your kids.

[mammal_mama]

After posting my last comment, I saw there were lots more and wanted to respond. I don't see my attached parenting style as something I have to "transition out of." As soon as my babies squirmed to get down on the floor and explore, I let them down -- but I still hold my girls when they want to be held.

I also agree with the person who said the excellent childrens' leaders are the ones who are comfortable having parents present (not her exact words). I feel confident you and your daughter will find something that's a good fit when it's the right time for HER. This may not be by six or seven. In pioneer days, many kids were home with parents until starting school at age EIGHT or NINE.

[momma earthical]

when your dd was a baby you knew when to feed her, change her diaper, play with her, sing to her, carry her, or put her down to crawl/toddle/whatever, because you were tuned into her needs.

so what's changed? You are her mom. You know her character, personality, nature. What will suit one child, or family will not be anothers cup of tea, so to speak. Your being an introvert will not make your daughter an introvert unless that is her inclination anyway.

I do not know what motivates people to make judgements on your choices. It sounds to me like you are a wonderful mom listening to both your daughters, and your own needs and making choices that serve both of those. Actually I'm a bit envious of how you describe having time to sew, and crochet, and read! My two youngest are still so small that seems like a long way away!

Hugs mama, trust your momma intuition.

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

Why are people pressuring me to 'wean' my dd, 6, from my presence?

Because she's six years old, and most of us were going to school on our own at six. I used to walk to school myself at that age. It seems very strange to me that you have never let this child do anything at all without you!

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

As far as being left at activities and classes, no. And I am feeling a loss of choice and freedom as I am beginning to explore these oppurtunities for her. Brownie troop- They only want one parent helper there at a time, rotated. So I couldn't be there with her. Dance class- No parents allowed, except through a viewing window three times a year. I want to be there for her IF she wants or needs me. Just like I am at home. She does not want or need me constantly, she is 6. But I want to be there for if she does. I have not fostered this attachment with her to not be there if she wants me.

Whoa. The point of fostering attachment isn't so that she'll be completely unable to be on her own! The point of that attachment is to make her feel secure when she goes out into the world. How old do you think she needs to be for you to start this process? Are you waiting for her to initiate it?

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

So, I'm okay with no activities for now.

It's not that i think a six year old needs dance class or soccer, now. But when does she work to solve problems without your involvement? When does she socialize with anyone when you aren't right there, watching?

I think I have less trouble with the situation you describe than with your attitude toward it. Maybe there are some six year olds who thrive under these conditions. I consider childhood a long and gradual journey from the absolute dependence of infancy toward independence. Weaning from your presence is probably the right language--it has to be a very gradual, supported process. Your reluctance to begin the process might be telling your daughter that you doubt she is capable of doing some of the things on her own without you that she might benefit from doing.

On the other hand, if you should wait a year and start everything up at seven, that wouldn't bother me. i don't have any attachment to six as the age when a kid can go to things alone. i'm just saying that i don't see attachment parenting as being the same as sewn-together-at-the-hip parenting.

[hipcoolmama]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

Why are people pressuring me to 'wean' my dd, 6, from my presence? I don't get this. I'd like to hear both sides of this if possible, so please reply if you are one who is being pressured or has been or someone who is pressuring someone else or has pressured someone else to leave there kid with other people.

Dd has went places with her dad probably a dozen times without me throughout her life. She has been left at home with dad when I have went places probably two dozen times. She has been watched by her aunt once when we were moving boxes at the house we were moving into so we were constantly popping in and out, her one grandma twice with me still in the same house but taking a break/nap with ds in a different room, and her other grandma she spent the night with once when ds was born.

As far as being left at activities and classes, no. And I am feeling a loss of choice and freedom as I am beginning to explore these oppurtunities for her. Brownie troop- They only want one parent helper there at a time, rotated. So I couldn't be there with her. Dance class- No parents allowed, except through a viewing window three times a year. I want to be there for her IF she wants or needs me. Just like I am at home. She does not want or need me constantly, she is 6. But I want to be there for if she does. I have not fostered this attachment with her to not be there if she wants me.

Sports- I get to stay, BUT, if dd decides she doesn't want to go to a practice here and there, she'll be penalized by not being allowed to play or being kicked off the team. I DO understand why, because they want the kids to be able to practice so they can WIN, right? Not so much what I'm looking for for my dd.

So, I'm okay with no activities for now. She is homeschooled, but socializes with loads of people of diverse ages in our neighborhood on a regular basis as well as family. We also do the library and park regularly and she is always chatting up adults and playing with other kids. I guess I'm just not sure why people, family and people we have met, neighbors and even near strangers seem to be pressuring us that she should be leaving me and she should be 'weaned' from me. What is up with this train of thought? Where is it coming from and where is it going?

I've been pressured a little as well. One of my friends asked if I ever get to do any activities without the kids and is there somewhere I can just leave them?

I saw a post on here a while ago from a lady and she was saying how she enjoyed being with her kids. She didn't want to leave them, she just wanted more help so that she could get out WITH THEM and do things together.

[mammal_mama]

Captain Optimism,

I don't understand where you get the idea Miss Ruby doesn't "let" her daughter do anything without her. She's made it clear that if her daughter wanted time on her own, she'd find a way to make it happen. At this time her daughter's happy with life as is; Mom was just checking into activities she thought her daughter might enjoy, and was disappointed to find the leaders weren't willing to let her go along and be available to her daughter as her daughter got to know the new people.

But it's encouraging to hear you say you're not attached to age six as the time for separation. I agree. I think people just get stuck in their ideas about what's appropriate for each age group. In my old church, some were stuck in a thinking pattern that saw "wierdness" in my decision to go with my three-year-old to Sunday School for as long as she needed me -- and actually some saw wierdness when we weren't making her separate from us as a baby or toddler.

It sounds to me like Miss Ruby knows her daughter; her desire for her daughter to be free and not coerced into separation is the same desire that will release her to branch out on her own as she's ready. I think she already IS branching out in her own home and neighborhood.

[MissRubyandKen]

Originally Posted by Roar
From this what messages do you think your daughter is getting about: 1. Moms having adult interests and commitments that are totally separate from children? 2. The role of friendships in a person's life? If she never has any exposure to the idea that you would go out with friends or go and help a friend who needs it, what is she learning about what it means to have your own friends? 3. The role of community - seeing parents involved in organizations, classes.

For me it is important that a child gets a sense of their parent as a separate being who existed before they did and has friends, interests, etc. that go beyond the child. It can be a huge burden for a child to carry to know they are not just the center of their parent's world but the whole of it.

I'm going to do my best to reply in a lucid way this morning as I sip my coffee! 1. Mom does have her own interests. I am somewhat of an author and an artist, not published or acclaimed for sure, but for my own personal pleasure I write, draw, paint, and have recently started to take interest in creating soft toys, its really fun. These things I like to do alone of course and seperate from my children, they see me pursue my own interests when I am doing these things. My interests may not be your interests, but they are there nontheless. They know mommy has spent quite alot of time writing on a book and I have talked to them about my wish to become a published author. Sure it isn't something out of the house, but I don't see why that would matter. 2. I think it is great that my kids have been able to be with me and see me helping their aunt and grandma with things as they are there (and sometimes helping too). I'm not sure how that is a negative message. If anything I would think it would be a positive message. They have not been treated as though they were in the way of my occaisionally helping out with things. They are competent enough to be there and even to help out too and they want to be there and usually do enjoy helping out too. 3. My role in our community definitely has not included being involved in classes and orginizations. It has involved attempting to chat with all our neighbors, some we see more than others, offering to keep an eye on others' kids, meeting people at parks and the library. Recently I have got the notion to volunteer at the library (we use their services oh so much) and this is something I would like to pursue in the near future. That would be fun and useful. Also since I started this thread my sister and I have had a couple of discussions seriously considering starting our own Brownie troop. I suppose though that that wouldn't be enough for you either though, beacuse I would still be with dd and she wouldn't be 'weaned'. I really don't feel that I am doing my six year old daughter a disservice for not having been more involved in our community.

I think it would be odd to think that my dd doesn't have the notion that I existed before she did with friends and interests already embedded. Shes sees those things and dp and I often tell stories to the children about our lives before them and since they were born, when they were too little to remember. While my dd and ds are definitely the center of my world at present, they are definitely not the whole of it. I am an individual with interests outside of them. It is not as though at age 4 and 6 I spend 24/7 with them and with eyes only for them, glued to their sides all day. I find the notion quite ridiculous actually. I am one busy momma who cooks, cleans, homeschools, loves to read, go to the zoo, park, and library, writes, draws, paints, sews, and crochets. I guess my particular interests may not look like much to others, and they are definitely allowed their opinions and judgements of me and my actions, aren't they?

I get the notion that you feel I should be doing more in the community and taking classes and be part of orginizations or I am doing my daughter a disservice. I'm sure I am not the only one who would disagree. We are all different. What message would I be sending if I forced myself to participate in activities I held no interest for and had no desire to be part of just so that she could see me doing them? That's silliness.

Originally Posted by Roar
Take this for whatever it is worth, but I think it is expecting a lot of a kid to have the imagination to figure out if it is something they want to do. This can be hard for kids who have already had class or group experiences. We've seen with our son that sometimes we ask "do you want to do this activity?" and he's really without an idea. If he's never observed that type of class and hasn't engaged in the activity before how on earth would he know if he wants to do it?

To me it seems rather impossible when a kid has never had the experience of being separate from mom and being in a group that they would have the ability to imagine what it would be like and to ask for the activity. Also, she's not seeing modeled that you are involved with anything outside of the home right? And, if she's at all perceptive she's probably figured out you are really uncomfortable with it too.

First let me clarify that I never said I was uncomfortable with anything outside the home. That is quite assumptive. Yes I am somewhat introverted. I am not shy and I am not uncomfortable around other people or outside the home. I merely value spending so many hours a day at home and some time alone each day. It is a need of mine I have no problem fulfilling and do not feel guilty or weird for. Two hours on, one hour off, lol. No not really but it is something like that. I value and enjoy quiet activities that I do alone, like cooking and other interests I already mentioned. If I have been chatting to someone for a couple hours or at the zoo for six hours around crowds I willl want to take a break and do the dishes or cook alone for a bit. That doesn't mean that I was uncomfortable talking or being out, just that I know myself enough to know that unwinding and having some quiet, alone time is needed or my brain might explode or something, lol.
And yes I do think she would better know whether or not she wanted to participate in something after she actually already has experienced it. That is why I started poking around for something for her, even though she isn't requesting it. I just don't see why my looking for something that would allow me to be there, at least the first few times is a big deal. I want to find something and have her look up at me after the first time or two and say I like this, I want to stay, its okay if you don't. Rather than just dropping her off the first time and leaving.

Originally Posted by Roar
As I mentioned in my post I don't think you need to start with a group necessarily. If a child is willing to try, I think it is important to start by this age looking at possibilities for independent experiences.

I'm sure this isn't a significant consideration for all people, but I did some thinking when my child was younger about the need to not be the only person of significance in his life. A couple of my close friends lost their mothers when they were very young. I imagine if a child has never been separate for mom (even to be with their other parent on a regular basis) it would add to the trauma. I'm aware that things can happen in life. I know when I had a period where I was sick I was very grateful that my child already had the experience of separating comfortably rather than trying to learn about that during a time of trauma.

While I respect your consideration and have heard other people voice similar, I honestly don't have the inclination to make parenting choices for the what ifs.

Originally Posted by Roar
Do you think it is possible that a child could conclude that they are only safe and okay when their parent is watching because their parent makes a point to always be watching? Is that something a child could think in your opinion?

I have not been talking about a child or some child or some perceived notion of children as a whole even. I have been sharing information about my child and myself.

[MissRubyandKen]

Originally Posted by captain optimism
It's not that i think a six year old needs dance class or soccer, now. But when does she work to solve problems without your involvement? When does she socialize with anyone when you aren't right there, watching?

She works out problems with her brother, cousins, and friends often without my involvement. Just beacuse I have been present in the home and yard for the duration of my six year olds life does not mean that I have directed her every movement, activity, and relationship. She often plays in her room with other kids without me right there watching as you put it. Heck even when they are in the same room as me or outside playing with others its not as though I have eyes only for them. Most of the time I am doing my own thing. I am too busy to have eyes only for my children at this point and they are mature enough now that I do not feel the need to have eyes on them always. But I am around and I am present and I'm surprised so many people are soooo vehemently against this. I don't care how odd it seems to others, I will be present outside with my children as they play in our townhome neighborhood's shared yard, not right by their side, but within a distance that I can see them as I look up from what I am doing, and hear them, though barely sometimes, as they say hello to strangers walking through.

Originally Posted by captain optimism
I think I have less trouble with the situation you describe than with your attitude toward it.

I'm glad I don't base my attitudes in life on whether or not they trouble someone else. If something I have said troubles you so I would be glad to expound further on my thoughts of you will elucidate as to the specific text. Possibly you could gain understanding of my position and attitude if you wish by asking questions or seeking clarification on a specific thing I have expressed. I honestly don't know what I have said that would trouble someone, but we are all individuals with our own filters, pasts, and lives. Some people have been troubled by the fact that I breastfed and coslept too. I just don't get how expressing some frustration while looking into activities for my daughter is troubling.

[sunnmama]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

Yes, I agree that there is something special about their relationships with other adults. I just don't understand why those relationships are perceived to be any less because I have been present with my children as those relationships have been fostered with friends and family. I'm not sure how my being in the same house or vicinity isn't allowing them to have special relationships with other adults. Its almost as though my presence over the years has been seemingly toxic to my kids or something in some's opinions. .

I don't think that relationships are "less" if the parent is present. I just think they are different. Qualitatively different.

My dd had/has wonderful relationships with other adults, who she generally only sees in my presence. For instance, our neighbor and most of her friend's parents. She does see some of her friend's parents without me, occasionally (when we've arranged a playdate for childcare), but it is rare--not on a regular basis.

It was when my dd started attended sunday school without me that I noticed a difference. Her relationship with these teachers is just *different* from her relationship with other adults. And, maybe because she sees them as "separate" from me, they are the one that she will sometimes open up to when she has feelings she doesn't want to share with me.

There is absolutely nothing toxic about being with your child . But our presence does affect the connection that many dc will make with another adult, because they will generally turn to us in need if we are available. But if we are not available, they turn to other trusted adults.....and hopefully learn that they have a large circle of adults they can trust.

I can't imagine being expected to just drop off my child on the first day, as the brownies you describe seem to expect. Dd wouldn't go for that, either. But, in a situation such as church where we were allowed to transition slowly, we have found a lot of value in "facing our fears" (both of us, lol.....I was just as nervous about leaving her in the care of other teachers as she was!). We have both found out that we really would have "missed out" if we "hadn't tried". And that has been a great life lesson for both of us. I've learned to trust dd and other adults. She's learned to trust herself and other adults. It has been a really postive development for us.

Of course, as an attached mama, I knew that my dd was ready. I know her well, and she often has initial anxiety that threatens to keep her from trying things she ultimately really enjoys. So I knew how much to encourage, and when to back off. I trust that you know your dd equally well.

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

She works out problems with her brother, cousins, and friends often without my involvement. Just beacuse I have been present in the home and yard for the duration of my six year olds life does not mean that I have directed her every movement, activity, and relationship. She often plays in her room with other kids without me right there watching as you put it. Heck even when they are in the same room as me or outside playing with others its not as though I have eyes only for them.

I didn't understand this from your original post.

I still think you are short-changing her, since you have decided that she can't do any outside activities without your constant presence.

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I'm glad I don't base my attitudes in life on whether or not they trouble someone else. If something I have said troubles you so I would be glad to expound further on my thoughts of you will elucidate as to the specific text. Possibly you could gain understanding of my position and attitude if you wish by asking questions or seeking clarification on a specific thing I have expressed. I honestly don't know what I have said that would trouble someone, but we are all individuals with our own filters, pasts, and lives. Some people have been troubled by the fact that I breastfed and coslept too. I just don't get how expressing some frustration while looking into activities for my daughter is troubling.

Look, lady, you asked at the outset for clarification about why some people might be bugging you about this. You asked for both supporting and dissenting viewpoints. If you want supporting views only, say so!

I definitely understand your perspective. You don't trust any other adult to look out for your child's welfare. Fine. That's your opinion. If you don't want mine--don't ask for it.

[MissRubyandKen]

Originally Posted by captain optimism
I still think you are short-changing her, since you have decided that she can't do any outside activities without your constant presence.

Originally Posted by captain optimism
Look, lady, you asked at the outset for clarification about why some people might be bugging you about this. You asked for both supporting and dissenting viewpoints. If you want supporting views only, say so!

I definitely understand your perspective. You don't trust any other adult to look out for your child's welfare. Fine. That's your opinion. If you don't want mine--don't ask for it.

I am feeling more than a little bit midunderstood here. I did not say my dd could not be involved in activities without my constant presence. I did say that she hasn't been out of my presence much. I expressed frustration that while looking into activities for her to get into the first two said that I am not welcome to stay there EVEN THE FIRST TIME she goes. I think this is ludicrious. Yes I am aware that lots of kids her age are going to school and yes I'm sure some of them even walk there on their own, not a big surprise nor deal to me. I see toddlers in diapers outside alone often so it isn't a surprise either, doesn't mean I would be influenced to make that choice. I have said more than once I do believe that I am still looking into options and plan on finding something for her to do, not to assuage people who feel that she should or needs to but because I think she would have fun at it. Its almost as if I came on here and said dd was to be cloistered away inside with no contact with other children or adults and only mommy mommy mommy bwa ha ha! Well I didn't so please either contribute to this thread in a more considerate fashion or back off, no one coerced you into replying, I asked, you chose to answer. You have also chosen to do in a slightly confrontational manner.

I did ask for other people's opinions on why people feel the need to pressure other's about 'weaning' their children. I did not ask to be pressured more by very personal comments on how I am short-changing my daughter and making her feel unworthy, etc. I really feel that all of these sentiments could have been expressed in a way that did not come across as being so personally directed at me and in a not attacking and defamatory way, especially when none of you even know me or my daughter. I definitely did not say that I was looking to change myself or my attitude or that I felt it needed adjusted by people who know next to nothing about me, just like some of the neighbors who I haven't had more than a two minute conversation with at a time making comments about cutting the cord and such beacuse I am outside while my children are outside. Not everyone lets their kids out the door and closes it behind them from the time they are still in diapers. I did not, would not, and will not. No matter what other people irl or on this forum say.

[MissRubyandKen]

Originally Posted by captain optimism
I definitely understand your perspective. You don't trust any other adult to look out for your child's welfare. Fine. That's your opinion.

I never stated or even implied this and it simply isn't true.

[Roar]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I get the notion that you feel I should be doing more in the community and taking classes and be part of orginizations or I am doing my daughter a disservice. I'm sure I am not the only one who would disagree. We are all different. What message would I be sending if I forced myself to participate in activities I held no interest for and had no desire to be part of just so that she could see me doing them? That's silliness.

What I was asking specifically is what she is SEEING and learning about the role of independent adult friendships in her mother's life. If you've never in six years taken independent time to nurture friendships separate from your family or to participate in outside activities separate from your family, why do you expect that someday your daughter is going to wake up and ask for those exact things. How is her failure to ask for something she's never seen or experienced evidence she isn't ready for it?

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

First let me clarify that I never said I was uncomfortable with anything outside the home. That is quite assumptive.

Comfortable referred to being comfortable leaving her at an activity (or even with her DAD!) without you. You've made it clear that you are comfortable as long as you are with her at all times. Do you believe that your daugther is really attached and tuned in but totally unaware that you are uncomfortable leaving her? Kids pick up on their parents feelings, sometimes they may not interpret them exactly correctly but there are messages that are picked up. What do you think she's learning when she sees she doesn't get to do independent activities and other kids do? What do you think she'll learn about that at age 7 or age 8?

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I just don't see why my looking for something that would allow me to be there, at least the first few times is a big deal. I want to find something and have her look up at me after the first time or two and say I like this, I want to stay, its okay if you don't. Rather than just dropping her off the first time and leaving.

I urge you to make this a priority as you will find it increasingly difficult as she gets older. Have you tried homeschool groups?

I'm still curious, what you think would happen if she went to the first 45 minute session of Brownies and you dropped her off and she didn't like it. What would be the bad thing that would happen from that?

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

While I respect your consideration and have heard other people voice similar, I honestly don't have the inclination to make parenting choices for the what ifs.

Really, that's surprising! You seem VERY tied to the "what if" about Brownie's or dance! More than likely she would have fun, but you are denying her the experience based on your idea of "what if" she didn't!

Overall what I'm getting from your posts is that really you aren't interested in understanding why other people think some weaning is necessary or desirable and if that is the case it may work better to label your post as a vent. If you were interested I think many AP parents have weighed in here how they found having some independent experiences were meaningful to their children and their family. As an attachment parent one of my goals was to raise a child who is comfortable and can be independent knowing they have a firm foundation of attachment in their family (not just with one adult member). I feel so appreciative for the opportunities to be with peers and adults that our child has had because I've been willing to allow some separation. I'd hate to think of a kid missing out on that.

[1xmom]

Also since I started this thread my sister and I have had a couple of discussions seriously considering starting our own Brownie troop. I suppose though that that wouldn't be enough for you either though, beacuse I would still be with dd and she wouldn't be 'weaned'. I really don't feel that I am doing my six year old daughter a disservice for not having been more involved in our community.

This is basically what happened at my dd's Brownie troop. Right now it is only 6 sometimes 7 girls and that is a good night. We are a fresh off the ground troop.

Also, when I take my dd to the park, I have had people ask me why I don't let her come by herself (the park is practically in my backyard). But the thought just made me sick to my stomach. I could not imagine letting her over there w/o me and she is 6 just like your dd. Sometimes I play w/her and push her in the swings, help her on the monkey bars, etc.. After a while I may go sit and read a book for a little bit and she finds other kids to play with. I know exactly what you mean w/your presence. Just b/c I am there, doesn't mean my eyes are straight at her staring and watching every move she makes. I do look up occassionally just to see where she is. Some people call it overprotective - I call it peace of mind.

[marybethorama]

I have nothing new to add (like that's ever stopped me ) but I want to speak out in support of the OP

MissRuby from all that I've read, I see nothing wrong with what you are doing. I agree that there is a lot of pressure to get away from your kids, either by yourself or with your husband. I can understand why you're feeling that way IRL because I hear it all the time.

I think you're doing the right thing and I'm sure you will find the right situation for your dd to do whatever actitivites she likes.

Edited to add: I also agree with what you said about being in the community. As my kids have gotten older I've finally been able to put in some more volunteer time. I was able to do some with my youngest ds along when he started school but it was hard for me to put in as many hours. Now it's the right time for me.

When my kids were younger I participated in community life in many of the ways you did. I think that those ways are equally as valuable.

I probably should have just posted a : instead of all this could have saved myself the typing

[Roar]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

Not everyone lets their kids out the door and closes it behind them from the time they are still in diapers. I did not, would not, and will not. No matter what other people irl or on this forum say.

I'm curious why you keep bringing this up and associating it as having anything to do with leaving a six year old (who you say is comfortable getting help from other adults) at a supervised activity for forty five minutes without her mother? I'm guessing everyone here would disapprove of a toddler playing alone unsupervised outdoors, but most people here see no problem with a six year old attending a supervised activity without mom or regularly spending time alone with dad.

This is why I bring up having to consider how needs change as children get older. It is natural as an AP parent to see the job of motherhood as all encompassing because babies may really need parents all the time. It doesn't though have anything to do with what a six year old needs. It sounds like you are blurring that line when you keep bringing up two year olds playing unsupervised.

Are you surprised by the reaction you got here? I think if you have only heard the suggestion that it was time to allow more independence coming from people who you view as neglectful toward their children or insensitive to AP, it may be a surprise to find out that many people who share the core committment to AP also think it is time to start weaning. Do you find any legitimate suggestions or observations in this thread? Do you totally dismiss the experience of other parents who have found their children benefitted in confidence, attachment to other adults, etc. by having independent time?

[Roar]

Do you feel at all like you are shortchanging your daughter or her dad by not letting them have a relationship really independent of you?

Many of us have really happy memories of trips to the park, or out for breakfast, or to the store to buy a gift for mom, just with dad. I know it always feels like a special thing to our son because Dad gets less hours due to work. We certainly all enjoy activities together, but there is something special about that one on one time too. It would be a sad thing in my book to deny them that experience.

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I have said more than once I do believe that I am still looking into options and plan on finding something for her to do, not to assuage people who feel that she should or needs to but because I think she would have fun at it.

Didn't catch this part in your original post.

Here's where I'm coming from: there's someone in my real life who doesn't allow her (much younger) daughter out of her sight most of the time. She lets a sitter or her husband look after her while she, the mother, is still in the house, but that's about it. Her daughter has almost no socialization opportunities. The mother and father have expressed the idea that they don't want her exposed to mass culture. So they aren't giving her many opportunities to socialize with other children. They sometimes have made playdates for their daughter with my son, but then they keep having reasons to distract her from actually playing with him, which kind of freaks me out!

I know you aren't the same as my friend. Your daughter is older, and she has more social contact, and siblings. But I wonder if the people in your community see your situation like I see my friend's.

One thing that keeps coming up here on MDC: people are real buttinskys with parents. Well, sometimes that is because they are people who care about kids! Sometimes that is because we are lucky enough to be part of supportive families and communities. The people who are butting in might be very very wrong (like all the MILs demanding that we let the baby CIO!) but often they annoying you silly because of their basic concern for children and their sense of connection to you. You have to evaluate the quality of their advice, obviously, but even the worst advice might have a positive underlying message.

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

Its almost as if I came on here and said dd was to be cloistered away inside with no contact with other children or adults and only mommy mommy mommy bwa ha ha!

That is how your initial post looked to me!

Originally Posted by MissRubyandKen

I did ask for other people's opinions on why people feel the need to pressure other's about 'weaning' their children. I did not ask to be pressured more by very personal comments on how I am short-changing my daughter and making her feel unworthy, etc. I really feel that all of these sentiments could have been expressed in a way that did not come across as being so personally directed at me and in a not attacking and defamatory way, especially when none of you even know me or my daughter.

In general, and not knowing you at all, which was my position in my first comment, I think a six year old should get some safe opportunities to do activities without her mother. That's what I really think, divorced from you or my other RL friend. I think there is a big difference between being a resource for your child and being in her corner, and not ever letting her be supervised by someone else.

I think, and this is completely aside from your situation, that never letting the child be supervised by another adult and never letting her socialize in group settings with other kids without you sends two messages: It sends the message that you don't believe other adults can take care of her, and it sends the message that you don't think she can handle socializing in a group without you. You say this is defamatory toward you? No, it has nothing to do with you--it's how I think about the process of children's socialization. There is something positive about being able to have safe experiences away from the parents.

I'm also shaped by my own childhood, and all i can say is, thank heavens my mother didn't believe in homeschooling! She would have been a far better teacher than anyone I had in school, it's true, but I would be even more warped and demented than I am today! I wouldn't have had a chance for an independent thought if it weren't for those walks to school.

[mammal_mama]

Miss Ruby, It's occured to me that maybe the people saying "cut-the-cord" or "you're doing your child a disservice" are actually feeling threatened because you're providing your kids with a wider range of experiences than they're able or willing to provide their own kids.

Your kids come along and help you when you do things for others. My first experience caring for an elderly person was in a nursing home job as a teenager; how nice it would have been to have already had some experience with my own mom present; I saw some alarming things that scared me about getting older, and though I talked with my mom later it would have been nice to have her presence and example the first time I encountered some shocking things. Also, getting to come along with you as you fulfill all kinds of helping roles just gives kids a great idea of the needs and opportunities that are out there: they grow up more connected with reality than they would if they were always shunted off to kids' activities.

Your kids get to see you pursuing your creative interests in the home. Your daughters learn that being a fulltime mom doesn't mean you're locked in a box. You have outlets right there in the home. As you've said, you're not 100% focused on your kids all day; you're just present and available.

I think too many people are influenced by the compartmentalized nature of our society. There are places for work, places for adult recreation, places for kids to play, learn, and socialize -- and then there's the home to rest, eat, recharge, and spend time with family. You've been more successful than most in knocking out these artificial boundaries ... people can learn from you or they can feel threatened. You've inspired me; my youngest is eighteen months so she still needs more close supervision, but I look forward to branching out more and more right here in my own home.