Just a leeeeetle frustrated right now...

[lisac77]

One of my good friends at work's wife had a baby 6 days ago. They are both Nigerian, and although the DH has lived here for a long time, the wife just came from Nigeria a couple of months ago. She doesn't drive and doesn't speak much English.

True to my lactivist roots, when I heard they were struggling with BF, I offered up my LLL leader friends' expertise, my personal BF experience (my DS never had formula and I WOH and pumped from the time he was 6 weeks old), as well as giving them written info from the LLL website. I offered to visit his wife (for company and support) and I gave them my number if they needed help finding an LC.

The main issue they're having is more of a first time parent problem than a BF problem - the baby isn't sleeping much and the mom is tired and frustrated. To combat this the DH has been giving the baby a bottle of formula at night, after which the baby reportedly sleeps for 2-3 hours.

The wife is really dedicated to breastfeeding, according to the DH, and she doesn't want the baby to have any bottles. The DH is giving the baby a bottle so the mom can get some sleep. I explained to the DH that he was really doing his wife no favors by giving him a bottle, and it would be best just to support her and ride this through, things are sure to get easier in the future.

He told me that he doesn't get any sleep, the mom doesn't get any sleep, the baby doesn't get any sleep and at least when he has the bottle he sleeps for a short time. I told him to reframe his thinking on the whole sleep issue, accept that nobody is going to sleep for a while, and just do his best to support his wife during this difficult time.

Then he starts going off on how the baby cries and his wife is tired and frustrated and he's afraid that if she doesn't get enough sleep she'll get postpartum psychosis and hurt the baby. :

And at this point what can you say? The baby is getting one bottle a day at this point, but I'm quite sure if it keeps putting him to sleep they'll start relying on it more and the baby's latch will start to slip and it will be all downhill from there.

Stupid hospital formula bags : : .

Sigh. Another ill-fated attempt at workplace lactivism.

[hazelnut316]

That is frustrating and I remember being there myself with my son. We did the exact same thing and I'm sure it contributed to my BFing woes! I also had PPD, so I know that lack of sleep does make it worse. This time, I decided that I was going to BF no matter what, but I also made sure I learned to BF laying down. BFing has worked this time AND I'm getting way more sleep than I ever did with my son.

That was my long-winded story to ask if she has tried BFing laying down. LOL

[mamaofthreecats]

those hospital formula bags were weird....

my son had a hard time latching on right away. i actually think it took about a week for him to really get into it. i was lucky enough that i never experienced ppd. i know it kind of sucks, but maybe if she is going to experience ppd, it would be better for the baby to have a bottle, than to have the mom get really frustrated and have a breakdown or take it out on the baby. my son has never recieved formula, and started taking a bottle at a much older age, but he still prefers nursing over that. but i also know a lot of formula fed and bottle fed kids that have turned out fine. she could always pump!!! my milk supply was so overbearing, that those little 20 dollar pumps worked fine.

i'll pray for her!!!!

[lisac77]

Please understand I'm not blaming anyone here! My sweet DS ran me ragged for the first year of his life. I totally understand wanting a break.

She doesn't have PPD yet, the DH is just afraid she might get it and is using the formula as a prophylactic, so to speak. I agree if the mother were extremely depressed or psyhotic it would be a totally different situation. That's not the case here, they're just frustrated new parents.

I have told the DH that BF becomes 1) awesome and 2) totally worthwhile once mama and baby learn to nurse lying down. They're not there yet. I think my son was at least a month old before we had the nurse-while-sleeping magic happen!

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

One thing he seems to be confused about is that ppd is caused by sleep depravation. When in reality it isnt. Yes sleep deprivation can make it worse BTDT. Another thing he might not realize is that that formula is really messing with the babies gut flora and prolly making it a bit harder for him to digest bm. Maybe do a search and print things off about that issue and well as some info on ppd.

[Sharondio]

This is where I gently ask if they would consider co-sleeping. If she can master a side-lying nurse, they could *all* get more sleep sans bottles.

[lisac77]

I've already suggested co-sleeping. I think they already are.

I just sent him a link-filled email with lots of info on PPD and how to establish breastfeeding. I hope I didn't overwhelm him. It's probably the last I'll say on the matter... I don't want to seem like I'm beating him over the head with information.

[KnitLady]

What about a night-time pp doula to help them through this time? Or even a daytime pp doula? Or a daytime nanny who could look after the baby (no bottles) while the mother napped? Then, being right there the doula/nanny could bring the baby to her whenever s/he needed to be fed. I know cost might be a concern, but it would be for a short time and would still be cheaper than full-time formula.

[annettemarie]

How frustrating, for all involved. It never ceases to amaze me how everyone seems to expect sleep after a new baby arrives. Breastfed or bottlefed, unless you engage in some inappropriate sleep training a baby is biologically wired to wake up at night.

[lisac77]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

How frustrating, for all involved. It never ceases to amaze me how everyone seems to expect sleep after a new baby arrives. Breastfed or bottlefed, unless you engage in some inappropriate sleep training a baby is biologically wired to wake up at night.

Yes, and the DH refuses to accept this, even though every parent in our department has assured him that this is completely normal. I told him that they'd all survive and the mom and baby will be the better for it if they continue to nurse.

There's no way he would go for a doula. There was some crazy mix up on the medical insurance and the birth was uninsured, so he had to pay like $20,000 out of pocket (it was a c-section from a scheduled induction that failed). I tried to get him to use a birth center with a midwife, but they didn't want to.

[firstkid4me]

Originally Posted by lisac77

Yes, and the DH refuses to accept this, even though every parent in our department has assured him that this is completely normal. I told him that they'd all survive and the mom and baby will be the better for it if they continue to nurse.

There's no way he would go for a doula. There was some crazy mix up on the medical insurance and the birth was uninsured, so he had to pay like $20,000 out of pocket (it was a c-section from a scheduled induction that failed). I tried to get him to use a birth center with a midwife, but they didn't want to.

Why not offer to go over and help? All the reading in world won't help some people. I'm a visual learner, show me, then let me do it, sending me a bunch of links on how to get the latch right wouldn't have done me a lick of good.

[lillake]

You might concider informing him that studies have shown that breastfeeding reduces chances of PPD, all the happy love hormones flying around. I'll try to find my links tomorrow when I'm more awake.

[SleeplessMommy]

Originally Posted by lisac77

There was some crazy mix up on the medical insurance and the birth was uninsured, so he had to pay like $20,000 out of pocket (it was a c-section from a scheduled induction that failed).

Yikes! He should try to negotiate the price (and a payment plan) with the hospital, if he has not payed it already. They are used to cash-paying patients trying to lower the price - the insurance company will only pay 50% or so. If he gave them a credit card, he will probably want to cancel the credit card, becuase the hosptial will be charging everything they can think of to this card.

With a one-week old baby, things are always tough. I found this was the hardest part. At two weeks, it will be a little better. And by 4 weeks, she may even get a little sleep!

They should be able to stop the formula feeding completely if they do it in a week or two, right?

[lisac77]

I've offered to go over to his house a couple of times but he hasn't taken me up on it. I'd have to bring my 3yo DS and I don't think they want little kids around the baby.

Sent him a link in that email I referenced above about BF preventing PPD.

As far as the crazy insurance thing, eh, he's determined to pay for it, if that makes sense. Several people in the department and HR have all tried to help him, but he's a pretty stubborn guy .

I just feel for him and his poor wife . I remember how hard those first couple of weeks were and I wish I'd had somebody to talk to or help me. That poor woman is all alone except for him, and is totally alone when he's at work.

I do hope the stop the bottles soon, but so many things can go wrong when the bottle is introduced.... I know that mama wants to nurse and it peeves me that he's messing that up for her. But once again, I've done about as much as I can do.

[Sharondio]

I think at this point he has to separate out what he's doing for his wife's good and what he's doing for his *own* good. He says he's giving formula to help her, but he's going to have to be with her when she's crying because the baby won't latch right anymore and upset at losing her supply.

If *she* doesn't want the baby to have bottles, then he isn't doing it for her. He's doing it for him. If it were me, I'd tell him to go sleep somewhere else and leave me to nurse.

Is there any chance of contacting her directly and seeing if what she really needs is a little support for her choice to nurse at night?

[Ammaarah]

OK, I would probably just gently let him know that some babies seem to sleep better after formula because it is very hard to digest, and talk to him about getting his wife to pump if they really want to do a nighttime bottle. I know it is not breastfeeding best practices to offer bottles so early, but he sounds like he really thinks it's important to give that bedtime bottle and give his wife a break, so I would concentrate on encouraging him to get mama milk in the bottle instead of formula.

He is trying to be a good husband and it's no fun for a man to see his wife so tired.

I would go talk to the mom in person. I just met a new mom who was in a similar pickle...she doesn't want to NIP so she was randomly using bottles of formula when she went out, which upset her baby's tummy. I gently convinced her to shelve the bottles until the baby's at least a month old, and to get a pump if she couldn't figure out a way to comfortably NIP on a short excursion. You do what you can, right? ((HUGS)) Good for you for caring and trying.

[lisac77]

Apparently her English is extremely limited. He has to go with her and translate if they go anywhere. I wish I felt I could just, like, go to his house, but I wouldn't feel comfortable if I weren't invited.

[lisac77]

Originally Posted by Sharondio

I think at this point he has to separate out what he's doing for his wife's good and what he's doing for his *own* good. He says he's giving formula to help her, but he's going to have to be with her when she's crying because the baby won't latch right anymore and upset at losing her supply.

If *she* doesn't want the baby to have bottles, then he isn't doing it for her. He's doing it for him. If it were me, I'd tell him to go sleep somewhere else and leave me to nurse.

I went through this with my DH when my son was tiny. He wanted me to sleep more and he was giving DS pumped milk in a bottle while I slept. Once I explained the whole supply/demand scenario, he stopped giving him the bottle and just brought him to me. I think he might be doing it behind her back... she's in another room sleeping, so he slips the baby a bottle so that *he* can catch a break and doesn't have to deal with a crying baby. :

[firstkid4me]

Originally Posted by lisac77

Apparently her English is extremely limited. He has to go with her and translate if they go anywhere. I wish I felt I could just, like, go to his house, but I wouldn't feel comfortable if I weren't invited.

Maybe you can tell him that if they ever need you to come over to help, just ask.

[Penelope]

Can you take them a meal? Might help them feel less stressed.

You could also try to find some bf info in her native language, although that might be a stretch... come to think of it, we have a friend who is Nigerian (now Nigerian-American) and he speaks French as well as English, (plus at least one other language) so that would make finding bf books somewhat easier, if she spoke French. Do you know what her native language is?