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Anybody else totally freaked out by soy?

post #1 of 66
Thread Starter 
I get so : when I hear people proudly declaring that their kids drink soy, eat soy nuggets, soy this, soy that...it makes me nauseous. Do people really not know that it should be consumed in moderation, if at all? I'd be so nervous to feed a kiddo so much soy.
post #2 of 66
Me too. That's a huge benefit to us (along with the msg and other crud in food) to making more and more from scratch ... no more soy anything. It is nearly impossible to get away from in terms of processed/prepared foods. We will have a small amount of miso when at the local Japanese restaurant, and use a small amount of soy sauce or tamari (sp?), but man, the thought of feeding my kids soy in pretty much any form makes me feel ill.
post #3 of 66
Yes and I really wish I could get SIL to understand how awful it is. Her ds has all kinds of allergies but she won't consider taking him off of soy.
post #4 of 66
Not to be naive, but what is the problem with soy products?
post #5 of 66
I am, a bit. I've stopped drinking dairy, so we do use soy milk, but mostly for the occasional bowl of cereal, and in my coffee (which is worse there- the soy or the coffee?? lol)
I do have a meal that I cook that is really yummy that has tofu in it, so I make that sometimes. I did read something about *fermented* soy being ok. It's just the unfermented that we have to watch out for. The tofu I use says "traditional" so I don't know if that means fermented or not. But I'd like to find a place to get fermented soy to use in that dish.
But I've vowed to not use soy as a substitute for anything, no tvp for ground beef, no "soy nuggets" for chicken nuggets.

Ds doesn't get much soy at all. He doesn't eat the tofu in that meal, just sticks with the veggies. And he doesn't drink the milk in his cereal. So just whatever soaks into the cereal he eats.

So basically yeah. It worries me. But then I realize that we drank pop daily for years (dp still drinks it) and that HAS to be WAYYYY worse than the amount of soy we consume!
post #6 of 66
yeh, soy scares me, so we avoid it.
post #7 of 66
Thread Starter 
post #8 of 66
Oh yeah, I avoid it as much as possible. Right now the only places we get it are soy sauce (which I probably cook with once a week at most), store bought bread and tortillas. I need to get some sprouted flour and try making my own tortillas...and I'm just not ready to make my own bread, lol.
post #9 of 66
I know that soy messes up my menstrual cycles, so I avoid it. I do buy tamari (naturally brewed soy sauce) and there's soy oil in the "non hydrogenated margarine" I buy for serving with meat meals, but that's the only soy we use on a regular basis. I don't object to the occasional (like a few times a year) consumption of "soy fake foods" as a special treat (how else can I get a kosher cheeseburger?)
post #10 of 66
nope.
http://www.foodrevolution.org/what_about_soy.htm
post #11 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by christacular View Post
Even if the negative hype about soy isn't accurate (and it can't all be wrong--if even 1/10th of the stuff in "The Whole Soy Story" is accurate soy is bad news), it's a processed food unless you're eating straight soybeans or making your own soy milk, tofu, etc (which I know some people do). Since one of the main points of a traditional diet is avoiding processed foods, that pretty much leaves out soy.
post #12 of 66
it is actually very easy to make your own soy milk, tofu, tempeh or buy freshly made (where i live, anyway). natural foods stores carry miso and shoyu and frozen tempeh, asian markets often make their tofu on the premisis, soy milk making machines are relatively inexpensive and all it takes is a 1/4 cup of organic non-GMO dry soybeans to make 6 cups of fresh soy milk.

the point is to avoid overly processed foods, including soy foods. but that doesn't mean all soy should be tarred with the same brush. it is just a bean, after all.

don't believe the hype! (on either side of the issue).
post #13 of 66
Thanks for the link, christacular. I'm going to read it again when I'm not headed to bed. I don't know if all of the issues raised by WAPF about soy are true and I can see why some of it is just simply inflammatory (e.g., "Zinc deficiency can cause a 'spacey' feeling that some vegetarians may mistake for the 'high' of spiritual enlightenment.").

But I would like to see Robbins delve deeper into the soy-thyroid link. He suggests that in populations there isn't a problem with consumption, but my understanding is that people with hypothyroid are regularly advised to avoid it. That is, it IS a problem if you're hypo, it's more controversial if it's a problem otherwise.

I would also like to see him address the phytates issue in more detail. He acknowledges that phytates inhibit absorption (and that is a finding that has not been in dispute for decades) but says that people on a plant-based diet are no more likely to be deficient in zinc. The way I see it is that there are many paths to zinc deficiencies and the SAD is one of them, so to compare vegetarian populations to people on the SAD doesn't really tell us much. Human studies show that if you reduce the phytates to zero in your food, you will double your absorption of iron, zinc, and magnesium. We all eat only so much food in any one day. High phytate foods that are not prepared properly to reduce phytates should not be the mainstay of any diet. And that includes grains and nuts as well as legumes.
post #14 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deva33mommy View Post
I am, a bit. I've stopped drinking dairy, so we do use soy milk, but mostly for the occasional bowl of cereal, and in my coffee (which is worse there- the soy or the coffee?? lol)
I do have a meal that I cook that is really yummy that has tofu in it, so I make that sometimes. I did read something about *fermented* soy being ok. It's just the unfermented that we have to watch out for. The tofu I use says "traditional" so I don't know if that means fermented or not. But I'd like to find a place to get fermented soy to use in that dish.
But I've vowed to not use soy as a substitute for anything, no tvp for ground beef, no "soy nuggets" for chicken nuggets.

Ds doesn't get much soy at all. He doesn't eat the tofu in that meal, just sticks with the veggies. And he doesn't drink the milk in his cereal. So just whatever soaks into the cereal he eats.

So basically yeah. It worries me. But then I realize that we drank pop daily for years (dp still drinks it) and that HAS to be WAYYYY worse than the amount of soy we consume!

tofu is not fermented, it is basically a "cheese" made from soy milk using a curdling agent. tempeh is fermented, as well as shoyu (tamari), and miso.

you are right in being wary of foods containing "isolated soy protein" or "soy protein isolate", "texturized vegetable protein" etc. many of these are also made with genetically modified non-organic soy beans. we don't know enough about the long-term effects of consuming large quantities of these types of foods to be sure of the health consequences, if any, they could have on us.
post #15 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gale Force View Post
But I would like to see Robbins delve deeper into the soy-thyroid link. He suggests that in populations there isn't a problem with consumption, but my understanding is that people with hypothyroid are regularly advised to avoid it. That is, it IS a problem if you're hypo, it's more controversial if it's a problem otherwise.
from the mayo clinic website:
"No direct evidence suggests that people with underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism) should avoid soy foods or supplements. But it's possible that eating large amounts of soy could reduce your body's ability to absorb the synthetic thyroid hormone levothyroxine. Other foods and medications that may decrease absorption of this hormone include:

* A high-fiber diet
* Iron supplements
* Cholestyramine (Questran), a medication used to treat high blood cholesterol
* Aluminum hydroxide, an ingredient found in some antacids
* Sodium polystyrene sulfonate (Kayexalate), a medication used to treat high blood potassium
* Sucralfate (Carafate), a medication used to treat ulcers

If absorption of this hormone is reduced, signs and symptoms of underactive thyroid may persist despite usual doses of levothyroxine. Blood tests can detect this problem. If you take levothyroxine, talk to your doctor before starting any new diets, medications or supplements."


Quote:
I would also like to see him address the phytates issue in more detail. He acknowledges that phytates inhibit absorption (and that is a finding that has not been in dispute for decades) but says that people on a plant-based diet are no more likely to be deficient in zinc. The way I see it is that there are many paths to zinc deficiencies and the SAD is one of them, so to compare vegetarian populations to people on the SAD doesn't really tell us much. Human studies show that if you reduce the phytates to zero in your food, you will double your absorption of iron, zinc, and magnesium. We all eat only so much food in any one day. High phytate foods that are not prepared properly to reduce phytates should not be the mainstay of any diet. And that includes grains and nuts as well as legumes.
he does say that fermenting and cooking soy foods reduces the phytates. but i think his point all along was that we should not make any one food (high phytate or no) the mainstay of our diets. also, it is not just the consumption of phytates that impedes mineral absorption but a whole host of other factors in the diet, including inadequate consumption of vitamins from fresh food sources.
post #16 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by christacular View Post
he does say that fermenting and cooking soy foods reduces the phytates. but i think his point all along was that we should not make any one food (high phytate or no) the mainstay of our diets. also, it is not just the consumption of phytates that impedes mineral absorption but a whole host of other factors in the diet, including consumption of vitamins from fresh food sources.
There are many factors that affect mineral absorption. Phytates are one of those factors. If you are deficient in zinc or iron you would be wise to prepare your foods to reduce the levels of phytates. Most soy preparations don't do that. I don't think anyone argues that absorption of minerals all boils down to phytic acid.

If you had goiter, christacular, would you eat soy? It is a goitrogen.

You see, many of us found this way of eating here on the traditional foods forum because things we had eaten in the past have affected our health. I have low thyroid function, so I don't eat goitrogenic foods. When I've had mineral issues, I didn't eat a lot of high phytate foods without fermenting them. That just makes sense. And, in fact, I continue these practices so that I don't have to worry about my zinc levels int he future.

But to answer the OP, no, I wouldn't say I'm freaked out about soy, I just don't eat it.
post #17 of 66
thyroid disfunction runs in my family. i am tested for it frequently and likely will develop issues at some point or another. while i believe that diet plays a much larger role in our overall health than we have been lead to believe over the last few decades i also think that genetics and other factors beyond our control play a role few people are willing to admit to.

if there is some issue with the goiter and you want to look at dietary causes, you are best to look at your iodine intake. studies show that you can safely eat the foods that may pose a risk to your healthy goiter safely if you up your intake of iodine rich foods like sea vegetables.

more information talking about the anti-soy movement and why it is flawed:

http://www.aviva.ca/article.asp?articleid=14
http://enzymeuniversity.com/artman/p...ticle_31.shtml
http://www.drweilselfhealing.com/pri...=272&iBDC=3264
http://youngagain.com/antisoyfraud.html
post #18 of 66
traditional foods, ok. but whose traditions?

some of the arguments of nt are valid, however i do take issue with their problem with vegetarianism as well as it's apparent ethnocentrism. i'm 1/2 japanese and soy has been a part of my diet since i was little. no isolates or uber-processed soy. mostly fermented.

but then again, the japanese don't eat the quantities of soy the way that we do here in the us. their diet is mostly vegetables, fish, some meats that are used more for flavoring than as a main dish.

who's going to go to japan and start waving the evil soy flag? i double dog dare you .
post #19 of 66
the okinawans are considered to be the longest-lived, healthiest people on the planet and they consume on average 1 - 2 servings of soy (the minimally processed/fermented stuff) per day. also, a lot of seaweed (there's that iodine again!)
post #20 of 66
I think kidspiration has an important point, that the Japanese do not rely on soy as a staple of their diet. We frequent a japanese market and there are more kinds of seafood than i've ever seen in my life and a utilization of fruits and vegetables. but in the US, we are so lazy that anything that doesn't take any time to prepare.
I was a vegetarian for several years and in all that was very depressed and anemic, periods were debilitating, and i believe that it contributed to my cervical cancer. Now i have terrible problems with hypoglycemia. the other stuff is undiagnosed so i'll leave at this. I ate a lot of vegetables as well, but tofu was my staple, primarily asian food, bc i worked at an authentic chinese restaurant for years.
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