Anybody else totally freaked out by soy? - Page 3

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I know that soy messes up my menstrual cycles, so I avoid it.

Darn right it does! While I was vegan and eating soy with almost every meal, I didn't bleed for 4 months! I had been very regular all my life until then. I am sure it was the soy.

[PrairieBohemian]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita

I thought I was being so virtuous, and what did I get in return? Severe PMS and menstrual cramping, endometriosis, uterine fibroid, ovarian cyst, weight gain, severe sugar cravings and hypoglycemia.

People wonder why we Weston Price fanatics are so anti-veg. Well, it's because quite a few of us have been damaged by the pro-soy, anti-meat propaganda, and it'll be a while before we're not pissed anymore, LOL.

HAHA! I posted a long while back looking for vegetarians that had an "awakening". Oh, this is SO ME. I have never been MORE unhealthy in all my life than as a vegan. People kept telling me I lost my period because I was "cleansing". Cleansing my A**!!!!! My body was in total disarray. As a vegan I also became eating disordered and GAINED fat while training for a marathon. Really. Doesn't that sound odd?

Still pissed,

T.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Attila the Honey

My theory is that things like WP and Atkins help people by forcing them to eliminate, for the most part, processed lab created food. I think the science that vilifies soy is very shaky, but I do believe that whole natural foods and not processed lab food is what suits our bodies the best.

I think that's true for most, although I notice on the low-carb boards that people are still thinking that protein shakes and bars constitute a meal rather than a last resort snack.

However, I want to clarify that I WAS eating whole foods before, but the soy stuff and Earth Balance margarine (*cringe*) was probably the most processed things in my diet. Otherwise, I was doing mostly whole grains, especially whole wheat bread and brown rice.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

ITA rareimer. But just for the sake of discussion, it's interesting that your sentence could apply to soy or to saturated fat. I eat one but not the other.

Except that people have been eating saturated fats far longer than soy; saturated fats from pastured animals are safer in larger amounts than soy.

[hanno]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita

Except that people have been eating saturated fats far longer than soy; saturated fats from pastured animals are safer in larger amounts than soy.

This has not been what I have witness or read anywhere. In fact, I live with 4 adult family members who are all suffering from high cholesterol and BP and taking prescriptions for it (they aren't really helping) and continue to eat a diet including animals. My husband and I, the 'soy eaters' have no prescriptions at all, are almost never ill and have very low chol and BP, and a solid amount of 'good' chol.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a major problem with this little bean is that it may be proving to be a big enough threat to the meat industry to get their panties in a bunch.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by hanno

This has not been what I have witness or read anywhere. In fact, I live with 4 adult family members who are all suffering from high cholesterol and BP and taking prescriptions for it (they aren't really helping) and continue to eat a diet including animals.

Eating what meat and produced using what farming practices? That's the more accurate question involved here - not who's eating animal products and who's not.

[Vaquitita]

i agree with pp, i avoid all new fangled processed soy products but have no problem eating traditionally prepared/fermented soy products. hey, that's why i'm in the traditional foods forum after all. lol.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

I find nothing wrong with occasional soy. a bowl of cereal with soymilk for my dairy alllergic son is fine a couple of times a week. a soy icecream as a treat, or a little tofu. but we don't use it as a fake-me-out food. we stick to trying to eats that are broken down and changed from their original form as little as possible. with as little additives and questionables in there as possible.

I'm sure eating it occasionally it okay, especially as a treat when you have dairy issues.

However, I don't understand why those who drink a lot of soy milk don't make their own. Home-made has got to be better than the store-bought stuff, and if you're going to be drinking a lot of it, those soy milk machines would seem the way to go.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by arboriamoon

Cleansing my A**!!!!! My body was in total disarray. As a vegan I also became eating disordered and GAINED fat while training for a marathon. Really. Doesn't that sound odd?

Still pissed,

T.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, your story is very common on the low-carb message boards. There's something about the high-carb, low-fat diets that just is not good for most people, or at least for their physiques.

I was watching some PBS special on this isolated tribe in the Amazon, and their diet was mainly wild game and some kind of root whose name escapes me. Yes, they were healthy on their high-fat, high-carb diet, but they all had a belly! Yet they were VERY active. Personally, I'd rather look like the tall, thin Masai (diet: meat, milk, blood. Gross but effective) than this tribe, kwim?

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by hanno

This has not been what I have witness or read anywhere. In fact, I live with 4 adult family members who are all suffering from high cholesterol and BP and taking prescriptions for it (they aren't really helping) and continue to eat a diet including animals. My husband and I, the 'soy eaters' have no prescriptions at all, are almost never ill and have very low chol and BP, and a solid amount of 'good' chol.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a major problem with this little bean is that it may be proving to be a big enough threat to the meat industry to get their panties in a bunch.

Personally, I think the whole high cholesterol "problem" is a lot more complicated than what doctors would have you believe. Here's some good sites that explode the myths:

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm
"The idea that too much animal fat and high cholesterol are dangerous to your heart and vessels is nothing but a myth. Here are some astonishing and frightening facts"

THINCS: The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics
http://www.thincs.org/links.htm

Cholesterol -- Your Life Depends on It!
http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/

Chris Masterjohn, the editor, is a former vegetarian whose health and teeth went into sharp decline when he eliminated meat from his diet. He is now a WAP Chapter leader and bio-medical student, and his analyses of the studies "proving" cholesterol is bad for your are quite astute. I especially enjoy his critique on "The China Study."

I dunno about the meat industry; last time I checked, they weren't promoting grass-fed, organic meats.

BTW, WAP found that the healthiest peoples he studied ate the WHOLE animal, which means brains, organs, skin and all. We obviously don't do that in Western countries. None of the cultures he studied would ever just eat the muscle meats.

There was a post saying paleo peoples ate lean meat; well, if they were eating the whole animal, this would include the brains, marrow, and organs, which are HIGH in fat.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita

Except that people have been eating saturated fats far longer than soy; saturated fats from pastured animals are safer in larger amounts than soy.

Definitely true that saturated fat has a very long history and high amounts of soy have a "history" of about a decade. But I wonder how much saturated fat we should eat. Paleolithic diets were high in fat but wild game are so much more lean than even the grass fed beef in my freezer. Though even this would vary with the animal -- deer meat and bear meat would have different levels of fat I imagine.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by hanno

This has not been what I have witness or read anywhere. In fact, I live with 4 adult family members who are all suffering from high cholesterol and BP and taking prescriptions for it (they aren't really helping) and continue to eat a diet including animals. My husband and I, the 'soy eaters' have no prescriptions at all, are almost never ill and have very low chol and BP, and a solid amount of 'good' chol.
I have a sneaking suspicion that a major problem with this little bean is that it may be proving to be a big enough threat to the meat industry to get their panties in a bunch.

You're preaching to the choir here, hanno, about problems in the meat industry. Your family is eating the wrong kind of meat.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

Definitely true that saturated fat has a very long history and high amounts of soy have a "history" of about a decade. But I wonder how much saturated fat we should eat. Paleolithic diets were high in fat but wild game are so much more lean than even the grass fed beef in my freezer. Though even this would vary with the animal -- deer meat and bear meat would have different levels of fat I imagine.

This is a good question. Since these people were eating a lot of brains, marrow, and organs, I wonder how much fat they were consuming? Would it be less than what we get from "modern" pastured beef and other meats?

BTW, what a cool house you live in! It's my dream to live in a Crafstman-style house, although I'd be happy to get even a much smaller, less stunning one than yours.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by Chicharronita

BTW, what a cool house you live in! It's my dream to live in a Crafstman-style house, although I'd be happy to get even a much smaller, less stunning one than yours.

Thanks Chicharronita. A smaller one would be very, very wise.

[rareimer]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

ITA rareimer. But just for the sake of discussion, it's interesting that your sentence could apply to soy or to saturated fat. I eat one but not the other.

you know, i guess that's true. we do eat saturated fat. i guess you could say that i've researched both, and feel much better about what i've uncovered regarding saturated fat from healthy sources than i do about soy. i think the main thing that scares me about soy is the estrogen. and the fact that so much of it is heavily processed.

just found it interesting too, i've read that the high proportion of peanut allergies these days could be due to the high amount of soy that is in seemingly everything we eat, like most processed foods, vegetable oil, etc. when pregnant women or children eat alot of processed food containing soy, or babies drink soy formula, it can cause allergic reactions. since peanuts and soy are legumes. i don't know if that's true or not, but it struck me as logical.

[cynde]

anocdotes are not evidence

I eat humongous amounts of soy and have no problems with period, cramps, glycemia , any of it. you go to another forum and you will here about the dangers of milk or corn or whatever we are eating in large amounts. I do agree that the healthiest diet is one of diversity and lots of whole foods but I have seen no negative health effect for me personally and I love soy products.
this is also an anecdote but, cnn just had a show about oldest living cultures and seventh day adventist in loma linda were one of the 3 groups of longest living folk. From what they said it sure looks like alot of their diet is fake meat soy products.

[Chicharronita]

Originally Posted by cynde

I eat humongous amounts of soy and have no problems with period, cramps, glycemia , any of it. you go to another forum and you will here about the dangers of milk or corn or whatever we are eating in large amounts. I do agree that the healthiest diet is one of diversity and lots of whole foods but I have seen no negative health effect for me personally and I love soy products.
this is also an anecdote but, cnn just had a show about oldest living cultures and seventh day adventist in loma linda were one of the 3 groups of longest living folk. From what they said it sure looks like alot of their diet is fake meat soy products.

I totally believe that YMMV. Personally, I feel burned by the advice that soy is this health cornucopia, and now look at studies, research and points of views of "experts" with a jaundiced eye. For me, it was not, and I am Asian.

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by hanno

I have a sneaking suspicion that a major problem with this little bean is that it may be proving to be a big enough threat to the meat industry to get their panties in a bunch.

How come pro-soy people never acknowledge that the soybean industry engages in profit-driven propaganda to promote soy products???? It's only the meat industry that's capable of propaganda?

I would be curious to know what the profits of the meat industry vs. the soy industry are. Does anyone know? I just know that soy is one of the main crops in the US--it's big business.

Also, the meat industry feeds the animals soy! So, wouldn't criticizing soy be shooting themselves in the foot? I mean, that's yet another good reason to avoid conventional meat: it's full of soy!

Besides, people who are anti-soy, IME, are not the same people who consume conventional meat. Does WAPF say to go out and support the meat industry by buying conventional meat?

And now to answer the OP, yes, soy freaks me out. I was raised on a great deal of tofu, which I definitely hold accountable for my health problems. I'm still trying to convince certain family members to stop eating their Boca burgers.

[snowbunny]

I think soy is bad news when it's used as a staple food instead of as a condiment. I mean, even in Asia where soy foods originated it's not used as a staple, but as a condiment.

Soy is especially bad for people with a tendency toward thyroid disease as it is goitrogenic and soy formula has been linked to development of autoimmune thyroid disease. When DS was little end EBFing, I had to give up all soy or it would make the little guy really sick.

I'm always surprised when people continue to eat soy excluding other nutritious legumes: soy yogurt for breakfast, soy cheese and soy meat for lunch, soy-based cookies and soy milk as a snack, soy nuggets for dinner.

Even when we were vegan, we skipped soy except for the occasional tamari sauce.

[Merilin]

Some of you mentioned miso here as being a soy product. I thought I point out, that miso can be made from fermented soy, but it is also made from fermented rice and fermented barley, sometimes even fermented wheat. They actually do taste quite different.

We do eat soy, but not as a staple. I enjoy soymilk once in a while, or soypowder on yogurth and ice or we eat tofu. I am also not aware, that it is a staple in the japanese kitchen. It is used, but not on a daily base. As it is with many things, eating certain things very exclusivly and avoiding everything else is never a good idea. A balanced diet and moderation is the key to a healthy life, in my opinion. Also, I read this article a couple weeks back, about how we all are genetically different and therefore need different foods. So, a healthy diet for a Japanese compared to a Brazilian compared to an Australian compared to a Pakistani campared to a European etc. can be quiet different. The first thing comes to mind, are Laktoseintolerance and Alcoholintolerance which are quiet different for different people around the world; and I am certain similar things are true for other foods.

Thus, I would not condem soy, but use it in moderation, and if one has problems with it, I would suggest avoiding it, but keeping in mind, that the same problems you have don't have to occurr to your neighbor.